Defending our decision to draft Josh ?? really

[muppy]

5 hours ago, loveorhatembillsfan4life said:

WARNING: One user below claims this website attempted to install Malware on his computer.  Click the link below at your OWN RISK

 

https://clutchpoints.com/sean-mcdermott-defends-bills-picking-josh-allen-over-lamar-jackson/

 

On the topic of anyone and everyone who can write a horrible article these days 

 

 So now we have to defend our choice for passing on Lamar?

 

"A glaring error of not picking Lamar hangs above our heads"

 

Sorry I don't even think twice about having Lamar instead of Josh. I think both QB's are where they are supposed to be. 

 

 

 

 

These woulda coulda shoulda articles are so lame. Not even God can change what has already happened so what is the use of belaboring it. Each and every draft pick is a potential treasure or bust there are no guarantees and besides that the supporting cast scheme and coaching all play a part. 20-20 hindsight can be helpful with some things but not when discussing draft picks it’s not fruitful or helpful to me it’s trolling whining and lame

[reddogblitz]

58 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

It wouldn't have been a wrong decision to draft any of the three you mention, but Lamar in particular at this point is producing the performance he is producing in a specific system. 

 

I see your point, but what QB drafted in 2018 is not producing the performance they are producing in a specific system?  Surely not Josh Allen.  Really any QBs.  Tommy, Russell Wilson, Drew Brees, Peyton Manning, Brett Favre are all like that.   You wouldn't put them in some other system they aren't suited to.  That's the goal, get a really good QB and build an offense around him that suits his strengths. 

[reddogblitz]

1 hour ago, StHustle said:

To say you wish we picked anyone else would almost come off as unappreciative of what we have and after so many failed attempts at replacing Jim Kelly, not many of us want to be unappreciative.

 

I am not unappreciative.  I think Josh is doing a bang up job and am enjoying the winning.  Keep up the good work.

 

I don't think there is anything wrong with appreciating Josh and what he has done so far and also thinking maybe some of the other young QBs are better. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Troll Toll said:

Between Allen, Mahomes, Lamar, and Deshaun... Josh is by far the most intelligent. You win over the long haul in the NFL with your brain. I have more confidence in Allen to figure out how to beat the cream of the crop defensive gameplans you see in the playoffs than the other guys.

 

I'd like to believe that because it's to our teams favor, but I'm not sure how you get there - especially with regards to football smarts, which is the relevant parameter on the field.

 

[BuffaloSol]

43 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Lamar is a better passer and a better runner than Josh.  Why couldn't Lamar run our offense?

 

Lamar throws at a higher completion percentage and QB rate than Josh and has thrown 9 more TDs and 3 less picks than Josh.

 

Lamar's not just a great running QB, he is also an excellent passer.  He passes on average 28 times per game at a high level.

 

Personally I would trade Josh for any of the other 3 we passed on, Mahommes, Watson, or Lamar.

Sorry, I disagree on that Lamar is a better passer, better running back yes, elite in fact.

 

People are scared to say it because of "racial things," but when QB's have relied that much on running the ball they have not lasted.

 

I think the Russel Wilson, DeShawn Watson, Josh Allen approach is a much better, sustainable route 400-700 yds a year.

 

You can disagree but it doesn't make me wrong.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, reddogblitz said:

I see your point, but what QB drafted in 2018 is not producing the performance they are producing in a specific system?  Surely not Josh Allen.  Really any QBs.  Tommy, Russell Wilson, Drew Brees, Peyton Manning, Brett Favre are all like that.   You wouldn't put them in some other system they aren't suited to.  That's the goal, get a really good QB and build an offense around him that suits his strengths. 

 

I disagree.  Certainly every good team optimizes their offense to favor what their QB does well and minimize what he does less well.   Peyton Manning, Brett Favre are inarguable because they both had success with multiple OCs for multiple teams.  Brees, too, had 2 successful years in San Diego before moving to New Orleans.

 

But I think that's a "missing the forest" assessment.  The forest is that by everyone's account, the offense the Ravens are running is very different than a standard NFL offense.  It's very much a college-style offense.    A standard "decode the pass defense, pass from the pocket" NFL pro-style offense is very different, even if it includes some RPO concepts.  This is a point the Bills coaches and players have made over and over.   Jered Mayo, the former LB now coaching LBs for the Pats, outright called Jackson "a running back who can throw".  That's clearly selling Jackson short and would probably get a media member smacked, but there is some truth in it.

 

I think if you sent Josh Allen to KC or Houston, or brought Mahomes or Watson here, after a little bit of tweaking they'd all play well.    I think Jackson would eventually succeed because I think he's a driven, hardworking player, but I think it wouldn't look pretty at first.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Just now, BuffaloSol said:

Sorry, I disagree on that Lamar is a better passer, better running back yes, elite in fact.

People are scared to say it because of "racial things," but when QB's have relied that much on running the ball they have not lasted.

I think the Russel Wilson, DeShawn Watson, Josh Allen approach is a much better, sustainable route 400-700 yds a year.

You can disagree but it doesn't make me wrong.

 

Russell Wilson started out as more of a "game manager" QB who threw for 200-ish ypg and ran 6-7x per game.  His best rushing season he hit 7 ypa.

Then he became more of a passing QB, leveling up to 250-ish ypg and backing off a skootch on the rushes.

 

Jackson is running 12x per game for 7 ypa.  That's top-10 RB in the league for yardage, but it's #21 in the league for rush attempts - right next to 36 year old Frank Gore and 35 year old Adrian Peterson.  So clearly some guys who run the ball that much and more can last.

 

I don't know the answer.  I think you and others who worry that Jackson's style is not sustainable may have a point.  But on the other side....how many QB who don't run nearly so much have been knocked out by injury?  Luck, Bradford, Bridgewater (in practice), Wentz - the first two being classic pocket passers. 

 

I think there's something to be said for the concept that the worst guy in the world to be is a relatively immobile QB behind a crap OL, and that the more athleticism a QB has as a rusher, the less likely he is to get hurt. 

 

And the refs right now seem very intent on protecting Jackson.

 

So we'll see.

[StHustle]

1 hour ago, reddogblitz said:

 

I am not unappreciative.  I think Josh is doing a bang up job and am enjoying the winning.  Keep up the good work.

 

I don't think there is anything wrong with appreciating Josh and what he has done so far and also thinking maybe some of the other young QBs are better. 

 

Thinking another young QB is better is one thing. Voicing a complaint that we should have drafted them instead, is another. Would our team be in better shape RIGHT NOW had we stayed put, drafted Lamar, kept our two 2nd round picks, and hired Roman instead of Daboll. OBVIOUSLY.  If Beane's hindsight were foresight we'd win the superbowl every year from now on. Often times you won't make the best possible choice when you look back. But as long as the choice you did make works well, be happy and move forward with no regrets.

 

If you make one gamble and win $100k, should you really complain because you didnt make a different gamble that could have won you $200k? Especially looking at how many others CRAPPED OUT and even remembering how many gambles youve lost yourself in the past? I LOVED Jackson coming out. I also knew drafting him early would be a gamble as he had a pretty good bust probability. I actually thought Josh had a larger bust probability so I wasnt happy with the pick. However, our GM believed in Josh and made a decisive decision that so far looks like a very solid move. Drafting any QB, Josh and Lamar moreso imo, is a GAMBLE. Lets just be happy so far it looks like a win for the franchise.

[reddogblitz]

1 hour ago, BuffaloSol said:

Sorry, I disagree on that Lamar is a better passer, better running back yes, elite in fact.

 

People are scared to say it because of "racial things," but when QB's have relied that much on running the ball they have not lasted.

 

I think the Russel Wilson, DeShawn Watson, Josh Allen approach is a much better, sustainable route 400-700 yds a year.

 

You can disagree but it doesn't make me wrong.

 

I think Lamar is a better passer but if you don't think so that's fine.

 

Over the past 50 years in the NFL QBs have come into the league deciding to run the football more and they do with success.  Randall Cunningham, Roger Staubach, Michael Vick, and Donovan McNabb to name a few.  After they get knocked around a few years they decide that pocket passing is not such a bad thing after all. Michael Vick is the exception.

 

The good ones are able to make the transition. Randall Cunningham got his team to the NFC Championship as a pocket passer for example.

 

I think Lamar can do the same thing. I think he's a good enough passer to pull it off.  Same goes for Watson.  Time will tell.

Edited December 5, 2019 by reddogblitz

[BuffaloSol]

21 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

 

I think Lamar is a better passer but if you don't think so that's fine.

 

Over the past 50 years in the NFL QBs have come into the league deciding to run the football more and they do with success.  Randall Cunningham, Roger Staubach, Michael Vick, and Donovan McNabb to name a few.  After they get knocked around a few years they decide that pocket passing is not such a bad thing after all. Michael Vick is the exception.

 

The good ones are able to make the transition. Randall Cunningham got his team to the NFC Championship as a pocket passer for example.

 

I think Lamar can do the same thing. I think he's a good enough passer to pull it off.  Same goes for Watson.  Time will tell.

Watson is not like Lamar though & you only named a few because there is only a few that were successful in fact most of the ones names are not like Lamar.

 

Vick is really the only one similar, I'm not saying he can't do it but I am saying it doesn't happen often & Lamar as just a passer relies a lot on how good of a runner he is.

 

Watson, McNabb, Wilson, Allen are similar qb's.

[reddogblitz]

2 hours ago, BuffaloSol said:

Watson is not like Lamar though & you only named a few because there is only a few that were successful in fact most of the ones names are not like Lamar.

 

Vick is really the only one similar, I'm not saying he can't do it but I am saying it doesn't happen often & Lamar as just a passer relies a lot on how good of a runner he is.

 

Watson, McNabb, Wilson, Allen are similar qb's.

 

I don't know.  Lamar is a very accurate passer hitting guys in tight windows on the money regularly. Not sure how being able to run the football helps with the accuracy. 

 

How do you think it does? 

 

I don't see the correlation.

[BuffaloSol]

15 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

I don't know.  Lamar is a very accurate passer hitting guys in tight windows on the money regularly. Not sure how being able to run the football helps with the accuracy. 

 

How do you think it does? 

 

I don't see the correlation.

It's pretty simple how it helps with accuracy, it opens up players down field when they have to cover an elite RB at the QB position. I'm not sure how throwing dump offs to rb's and tes is being very accurate in tight windows. I watched the whole san fran game, he is really good but can it last?

[reddogblitz]

52 minutes ago, BuffaloSol said:

It's pretty simple how it helps with accuracy, it opens up players down field when they have to cover an elite RB at the QB position. I'm not sure how throwing dump offs to rb's and tes is being very accurate in tight windows. I watched the whole san fran game, he is really good but can it last?

 

I didn't see that game so can't say on that one.  But if a guys open, you still gotta be accurate to put it on his hands I guess is my point.

[benderbender]

The most annoying thing about that draft was hearing so many different sites mention Josh Allen as the presumptive number 1 quarterback to be taken. Then a few days out, it leaked that someone was taking Baker Mayfield first and suddenly Allen was universally panned as a good selection. Seemingly overnight our pick went from brilliant to meh. I did see many sites predicting we take Jackson based mostly on our Tyrod history.