A comment about Lamar gets a 49er's announcer suspended

[3rdand12]

3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Alert my employer here, perhaps I should be suspended for 1 day.  Sunday afternoon through Monday would be nice.

after the game or before the game ?
 Just trying to help Hap

[White Linen]

6 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

It's really difficult to respond to this without broadening the terms of the discussion to society at large, which doesn't belong here.

 

I think the point is, in this instance, Lamar, as a star, Heisman-winning QB, faced a lot of pre-draft criticism and suggestions to change position that many black players and media members felt were spurred in part by racial bias in perceptions.  In that context, comments which appear to attribute his stunning success in part to skin color rather than his skill can seem like more of the same. 

 

The valid point that maybe the lack of contrast made the ball even harder for the 49ers to see could have been made (and perhaps more effectively) without it.

 

Of course all of that, just like the pre draft perceptions of McCaffrey were also rooted in racism.  

 

That really has nothing to do with my comments though. 

5 hours ago, HomeskillitMoorman said:

 

But there ARE certain types of people that have an advantage. There's a reason why the workforce looks the way it does. Whether it's in sports or any business, why do you think the percentage of minorities and females in C-Suite/executive roles is still so low?

 

It's almost crazy and incredibly dismissive based on cold hard facts to say certain people in society haven't been given an advantage. That's not to take away the hard work of white males, but the same hard work could have been put in by minorities and women that just haven't been shown the same opportunities. 

 

Even keeping it purely in sports...look at the way males have been coaching in the WNBA or other female sports, but no women have been hired as head coaches in any of the big pro leagues. Becky Hammon has been an assistant for Greg Popovich for years and has gotten all kinds of accolades...but nobody wants to be that first time that tries this "experiment" of having the first female coach. There are also a few high-ranking female executives in sports that have continuously gotten turned down for GM roles. Meanwhile we see the same recycled failed coaches and GM's that are males get hired over and over and over again. It took a while for minority males to even join that club.

 

You or other people may not want to hear that there are people of advantage in this country and life, but it's simply not true. 

 

I think it's largely because even when society and corporations make room for those opportunities - it's not enough and no matter the amount there's no diminishing the anger.  So it's kind of like - what's the point. 

 

My mom is 74 and her generation had very little opportunity for females.  My wife is 42 and has had way more opportunity.  Yet the women in their 40's are way more angry than the one's in their 70's.  And it isn't because they're woke.

 

 

Edited December 5, 2019 by White Linen

[DefenseWins]

10 hours ago, Binghamton Beast said:

 

When was Manuel ever a master at the read option like Jackson is?

 

Think before you post.

 

I also don't recall anyone making such a racially insensitive remark about Donovan McNabb when he was playing for the Eagles, who wore dark green jerseys either. As I recall he was a fairly decent running QB at that time too!

 

PS. You might consider taking your own F'd up advice!

 

 

[Bakin]

11 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

I don't think that term means what you think it means - and if it does and you're still using it, well ... that's too bad.

 

I don't think any rational person is trying to say the this comment about skin tone was a racist comment.  I think most rational people will agree that it was not meant to be offensive or demeaning in any way, shape or form.

 

I also don't think it's terribly difficult to understand why it simply not a good idea - as someone with a mic in front of him paid to speak to thousands of listeners - to "go there."  In a position like his, he'd be wise to stay away from politics, race, color and/or sexual orientation.  Even if a comment is harmless, if it falls into one of those categories, it's just inviting some radical idiot to make life miserable for the organization.

 

He should have known better and that's why he was suspended.  That's all it boils down to.

You might be right...but to me it seems like  this is a story about a white person being discriminated against (in this case, suspended) for saying something that a black person would not be criticized for saying. 
Maybe it’s just hypocrisy ... Not reverse racism. 

I see black people RAILING on the whiteness of people all day on TV, and none seem to get punished. 

[KD in CA]

6 hours ago, HomeskillitMoorman said:

 

But there ARE certain types of people that have an advantage. There's a reason why the workforce looks the way it does. Whether it's in sports or any business, why do you think the percentage of minorities and females in C-Suite/executive roles is still so low?

 

Because in big companies you don't reach the 'C-Suite' until you're 30 years into your career, and 30 years ago women/minorities didn't have the same opportunities they have today and in recent years.  As a result the portion of C-Suite roles held by women is continually increasing.  Has that really escaped your notice are you just being obtuse to make a point?

 

Here's a link from Pew Research showing a bunch of charts of women participation in various govt/corp leadership roles.  As the father of 3 young daughters, I'm thrilled to see all the lines all going from the bottom left to the upper right with most accelerating even more rapidly in the last few years.   This evidence belies the bullsh-- political narrative that we're still living in the 1940s.

 

https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/fact-sheet/the-data-on-women-leaders/

Edited December 6, 2019 by KD in CA

[BobbyC81]

11 hours ago, badassgixxer05 said:

I dont think Tom Brady is running the option anytime soon. If so, id be all for it... ?

Against Houston there was a play where a blitzing DB was unblocked and Tom dropped and curled into the fetal position.  When the DB lightly tapped him down, I half expected a flag.

[Giuseppe Tognarelli]

The 49ers' statement says the guy showed "remorse." That seems like a strong word. I think some of the outrage over the suspension has to do with the concept of the guy having to be "remorseful" over this, as if it was a truly out of line/offensive comment. That really makes people feel like this PC culture is going way too far.

 

I too struggle to come up with a way it could have been rephrased while making the same point. I wonder, and fear, if we have truly gotten to the point where it would actually be offensive to say:

 

Lamar Jackson has dark skin.

 

As if no one is allowed to ever acknowledge another person's skin color. It seems like we might be there.

Edited December 6, 2019 by Giuseppe Tognarelli

[Hapless Bills Fan]

30 minutes ago, Bakin said:

You might be right...but to me it seems like  this is a story about a white person being discriminated against (in this case, suspended) for saying something that a black person would not be criticized for saying.

 

I would just like to point out that "suspended" (or any form of discipline at a place of employment) is not the same thing as discriminated against.

 

If you see a black guy in the same or similar job with the 49ers or another team making the same comment - and not getting disciplined - that would be discrimination.  Otherwise you really have no evidence this is a form of discrimination vs. an employer standard of conduct for that position.

 

Other media people in other positions saying whatever the heck they want really isn't applicable, there are certainly "shock jocks" of all flavors.  Their existence doesn't mean the 49ers (or the Bills) can't hold a different standard for their employees.

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

13 minutes ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

The 49ers' statement says the guy showed "remorse." That seems like a strong word. I think some of the outrage over the suspension has to do with the concept of the guy having to be "remorseful" over this, as if it was a truly out of line/offensive comment. That really makes people feel like this PC culture is going way too far.

 

I too struggle to come up with a way it could have been rephrased while making the same point. I wonder, and fear, if we have truly gotten to the point where it would actually be offensive to say:

 

Lamar Jackson has dark skin.

 

As if no one is allowed to ever acknowledge another person's skin color. It seems like we might be there.

 

It seems pretty clear to me that the problem here isn't saying "Lamar has dark skin", it's saying "the fake handoffs were effective because Lamar has dark skin" which kind of carries an implication "not because Lamar is totally Dope at faking the handoff."  Which he is.

 

The way I would phrase it is that the way players see the ball is by contrast with the background.  In the rain/low light against the dark background of the Ravens uniforms, it was very difficult to see the ball.  Leave it there and let the listener decide whether or not dark skin has anything to do with it.

 

 

[Bakin]

3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I would just like to point out that "suspended" (or any form of discipline at a place of employment) is not the same thing as discriminated against.

 

Until you see a black guy in the same or similar job with the 49ers or another team making the same comment - and not getting disciplined - you really have no evidence this is a form of discrimination vs. an employer standard of conduct for that position.

 

Other media people in other positions saying whatever the heck they want really isn't applicable, there are certainly "shock jocks" of all flavors.  Their existence doesn't mean the 49ers (or the Bills) can't hold a different standard for their employees.

 

 

How about Michael Irvin and his comments about Tony Romo owing his athletic abilities to his generations old black ancestry?

not punished. 
And that was empirically a more overtly racist comment than the one about Lamar’s skin colour.

It’s Just one example but my feeling (not provable) is that a black sportscaster would not have been disciplined for making the same comment as was made about Lamar. 

[Augie]

This could go on for 100 pages, and there would be no “winner”. 

[Gugny]

1 hour ago, Bakin said:

I see black people RAILING on the whiteness of people all day on TV, and none seem to get punished. 

 

I don't watch a lot of TV.  Can you give me some examples/links, please?

[nedboy7]

21 minutes ago, Bakin said:

How about Michael Irvin and his comments about Tony Romo owing his athletic abilities to his generations old black ancestry?

not punished. 
And that was empirically a more overtly racist comment than the one about Lamar’s skin colour.

It’s Just one example but my feeling (not provable) is that a black sportscaster would not have been disciplined for making the same comment as was made about Lamar. 

how do you survive this type of oppression? 

[billsfan1959]

7 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

you nailed it.

No one is offended. Some dumb company made a dumb move. WTF.  Stop trying to make this a big deal. It’s not. 

My guess is that It is a big deal to Tim Ryan...

[billsfan1959]

Just now, nedboy7 said:

I doubt it. 

Being suspended and nationally embarrassed? 
 

Right.

[Chandler#81]

Ladies & gentlemen, please be wary how close this thread is getting to tipping off the PC rails. Especially since the collective point has beaten repeated many times with little variance. 

[SirAndrew]

1 hour ago, White Linen said:

 

Of course all of that, just like the pre draft perceptions of McCaffrey were also rooted in racism.  

 

That really has nothing to do with my comments though. 

 

I think it's largely because even when society and corporations make room for those opportunities - it's not enough and no matter the amount there's no diminishing the anger.  So it's kind of like - what's the point. 

 

My mom is 74 and her generation had very little opportunity for females.  My wife is 42 and has had way more opportunity.  Yet the women in their 40's are way more angry than the one's in their 70's.  And it isn't because they're woke.

 

 

If you think women in their 40’s are more angry than women in their 70’s, you’ve clearly never been to a Bingo Hall. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

58 minutes ago, Bakin said:

How about Michael Irvin and his comments about Tony Romo owing his athletic abilities to his generations old black ancestry?

not punished. 
And that was empirically a more overtly racist comment than the one about Lamar’s skin colour.

It’s Just one example but my feeling (not provable) is that a black sportscaster would not have been disciplined for making the same comment as was made about Lamar. 

 

If we're going to go back more than a decade (13 years or so if I remember correctly to the Irvin comments) where are we gonna stop?

My take is someone else's bad or insensitive behavior a decade ago or last year or even last week does not justify current bad or insensitive behavior and it's not going to lead to productive discussion to go back a decade or several decades.

 

17 minutes ago, SirAndrew said:

If you think women in their 40’s are more angry than women in their 70’s, you’ve clearly never been to a Bingo Hall. 

 

Post of the Thread.  And on that note....