What are our offensive and defensive game plans to beat Baltimore?

[Mikey152]

Historically, the best defense against Lamar was in the playoffs last year, and it was...unconventional.

 

The Chargers played the vast majority of the game with SEVEN dbs on the field...they basically had safeties playing lb.  the idea is to increase the athleticism on the field so you can run with Lamar and cover their TE.  You are vulnerable to a power run game, so you have to be aggressive on running downs.

 

the nice thing is, the Bills can do something similar in a nickel defense.  Milano and Edmunds run And cover like safeties and can stay on the field in most situations, making the bills less vulnerable to a power run game.

 

so the answer, basically, is to play nickel defense all game, 2-3 safeties (depending on personnel), 7 or 8 in the box.  Hit Lamar whenever you can and make him pay for keeping it.  Play zone underneath and use the extra speed to limit scrambles from turning into big plays.

 

i actually think the Bills match up better than most...they will do ok containing Lamar.  The question is whether or not they can stop Ingram on the inside power stuff without sacrificing their athleticism

[Buffalo Junction]

2 hours ago, H2o said:

Lorax is not going to get it done in this situation, trying to contain Jackson or covering a TE. We will need to swap out a S in his spot this week. It was mentioned in another thread by @plenzmd1 if I am not mistaken and after considering it with the scheming options I believe it is the way to go. 

My concern with pulling Lorax is that we have three defensive starters that practiced against Roman’s schemes with Tyrod... Lorax is one along with Lawson and Hughes. There is value in having those players on the field together since they’re less likely to hesitate. That could make a massive difference in this game. Now, it’s also entirely possible that Jackson jukes them out of their socks, but that’s not entirely preventable with a safety in there either

[Foxx]

6 minutes ago, TheProcess said:

It’s almost like you completely forgo a pass rush on most downs. Have your Dline take a couple steps then stop. LBs must read their keys and fire. Can’t overthink it. Read and react. Execute, contain, and keep him bottled up. Everything designed to shut down the run first and foremost. This strategy has been used on Tyrod on a number of occasions to successfully “make him play QB”. Lamar is far better than Tyrod, but I refuse to believe there’s no answer for this offense. As several others have said, your only chance to beat them is if you shut down the run and make them throw it. Don’t let them play their game. Getting a lead on them might be the best defense. 

right. with the d-line push,  it is imperative that they do not get behind Lamar. keep him in front of you at all times, push him backwards.

[rayray808]

We are going to destroy them with play action once the run game is established:

 

Bills 24 - Ravens 17

[stevewin]

Last night on ESPN post game Tim Hasselbeck had an interesting segment that talked about a couple of the schemes the Ravens run and why they are successful.  Once concept is to leave an edge defender unblocked and use the TE and flow to "widen the defense out" and essentially have an extra blocker.  Start watching at the 9 min mark

 

 

 

 

 

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

I know Bill's tried this vs the Fish. They made some pre snap movement before Fitz took the ball. Would this help and confuse there O-Line a little?

[Locomark]

On offense we need to attack their perimeter. Sweeps, jet sweeps, those quick passes like we did to Beas last week. They seem weakest outside. I think you must score 24 or more to win this game unless there is some form of weather. 

 

 

On defense we have to keep them in check on first down. Honestly I would always worry about Lamar first on RPO because he can gash you for more than their RBs can. I honestly think you sell out run. Turnovers must happen and we need the crowd to influence their line. 

 

We can’t have our kicker missing Any points this game no matter what. 

 

[H2o]

44 minutes ago, Buffalo Junction said:

My concern with pulling Lorax is that we have three defensive starters that practiced against Roman’s schemes with Tyrod... Lorax is one along with Lawson and Hughes. There is value in having those players on the field together since they’re less likely to hesitate. That could make a massive difference in this game. Now, it’s also entirely possible that Jackson jukes them out of their socks, but that’s not entirely preventable with a safety in there either

I want Hughes and Lawson on the field all game tbh, but Lorax is going to be a liability due to his limited athleticism imo more so than Coleman or Neal would be, against the run and trying to cover TE's. He just can't run with these guys. But if he were to make the correct read on every play, which is highly unlikely, then he could be a thumper against the run. The other guys just have more speed and overall athleticism that is going to be needed this week trying to keep up with these TE's and Ravens' ground game. Like I said, this is what I would do and not necessarily what the team is going to do. 

[ctk232]

On 11/30/2019 at 11:45 AM, Virgil said:

The biggest advantage in the Ravens offense, outside of just Lamar, is that all defenders first step is forward on every snap because you assume the run first.  This leaves the receivers in 1 on 1 coverage or allows the TE's to slip out in coverage.

With that, I think you play hard zones and allow the short yardage.  You have Milano and Edmunds play zone, 5 yards back, within the Tackles and Guards.  Let them get those free first yards, but don't commit to the play until you absolute know where it's going.  You run heavy on the line, playing solid gap defense.  Don't let them create confusion. 

 

The challenge then is how you handle the pulling guards and backfield blockers who lead the way.  That's where gap integrity is key, as well as the play of the safeties.  Hyde should be playing in the box for most of the game, with Poyer covering deep.  If you have a gap controlled front 3, 7 in zoned out within 3-7 yards, you keep them to short plays.  Eventually, you'll get stops.  Honestly, we run more of a 3-4 style defense with Phillips in the middle, Oliver as an End, and Shaq on the other End. 

 

The speed of Edmunds and Milano are key

Word. Given Roman's scheme predicated on the two-back RPO/triple option, and Jackson's preference for finding Andrews in both zone beater spots and in man coverage, you'd think we'd certainly need to stack the box, but remain patient, like you mentioned, at the same time. 

 

We still have to play some sort of assignment defense if we plan to stop any component of the RPO/triple option threat - turkey brain has me mis-remembering, but I think it was either Dungy or Rodney on SNF that picked on Weddle's comments about not knowing who has the ball before it's too late. If I'm remembering correctly, Dungy said that shouldn't even be an issue if you're matching the scheme correctly, and each defender is responsible for a player assignment (i.e. Ingram-Milano, Jackson-Edmunds, RB2-DE or Nickel, and TE1-Hyde/Poyer). It's a mismatch nightmare the way Roman runs it with their roster, but so many times yesterday we saw a free blitzer crashing to the option fake, and not picking up the assignment leaving Jackson room to run. Essentially, it's much easier to follow your man/assignment than it is the ball in the RPO scheme. If we don't immediately crash the line, and everyone picks up their assignments - theoretically the RPO weapon should be contained with effective tackling (another issue Jackson presents).

 

On passing plays and downs - that's where I'd think the patience comes in, and again borrowing Dungy's analysis, it makes sense to force Jackson to beat you in the pocket by not pressuring him. Andrews and Ingram in the flats create spot concepts to beat zone defenses with mismatched personnel that are schemed by opposing teams to defend the RPO threat; it's a very complementary scheme that way. I'm curious to see how McD and Frasier adapt the zone scheme we play and utilize our personnel, especially with the DL rotation we like to use, it's hard to see how that rotation will consistently match up with the Ravens personnel groupings per se.

 

There's also something we can do with the offense to help defend the RPO/Jackson - and that's to eat up as much clock as possible. If the defense can force a few key stops, keeping their offense off the field as much as possible simply limits the damage they can do. It's a rather obvious statement, but certainly one that can have an equal impact, and keep our defense fresh/rested throughout.

 

As for something we can do - be loud af for the entire time the Ravens have the ball? As per usual?

Edited December 2, 2019 by ctk232

[Brandon_Bean]

My plan would be to somehow give Lamar Mono.

[One Buffalo]

Here are some good observations from analyzing yesterday's game-

 

 

[Kenosha2Buffalo]

Prey

[dubs]

There is actually a really good article in the WSJ about the Ravens attack and how unique it is. It comes down to the options Jackson has on every play and how confusing it is for a defense to figure out who has the ball. 
 

first, their efficiency and effectiveness comes from their run game (obviously).  But because they are in the pistol or shotgun 95% of the time, and each play has options, they can’t be defended by the traditional means (IMO). I think it all comes down to making Jackson think for a second before the decision. That might mean holding the line rather than rush up field at the snap. Clogging the middle (Hash to hash) of the field which makes the quickest decisions more difficult, and causes him to look to the sidelines more. The longer Jackson is indecisive for, the better for the defense. 

[Buffalo Junction]

12 minutes ago, H2o said:

I want Hughes and Lawson on the field all game tbh, but Lorax is going to be a liability due to his limited athleticism imo more so than Coleman or Neal would be, against the run and trying to cover TE's. He just can't run with these guys. But if he were to make the correct read on every play, which is highly unlikely, then he could be a thumper against the run. The other guys just have more speed and overall athleticism that is going to be needed this week trying to keep up with these TE's and Ravens' ground game. Like I said, this is what I would do and not necessarily what the team is going to do. 

Fair enough. I’m not sure if his lack athleticism is worse than other players missing assignments due to misdirection and over aggressive play. Who knows though??? We’ll find out Sunday. ?? 

[The Jokeman]

1 hour ago, Mikey152 said:

Historically, the best defense against Lamar was in the playoffs last year, and it was...unconventional.

 

The Chargers played the vast majority of the game with SEVEN dbs on the field...they basically had safeties playing lb.  the idea is to increase the athleticism on the field so you can run with Lamar and cover their TE.  You are vulnerable to a power run game, so you have to be aggressive on running downs.

 

the nice thing is, the Bills can do something similar in a nickel defense.  Milano and Edmunds run And cover like safeties and can stay on the field in most situations, making the bills less vulnerable to a power run game.

 

so the answer, basically, is to play nickel defense all game, 2-3 safeties (depending on personnel), 7 or 8 in the box.  Hit Lamar whenever you can and make him pay for keeping it.  Play zone underneath and use the extra speed to limit scrambles from turning into big plays.

 

i actually think the Bills match up better than most...they will do ok containing Lamar.  The question is whether or not they can stop Ingram on the inside power stuff without sacrificing their athleticism

Covering the TEs and think stopping Ingram the key to stopping Baltimore. 

[wjag]

If you watch Baltimore you quickly realize that LJ throws between the hash marks, unless forced out of the pocket.  Defend the middle.  They use three tight ends a lot and throw to the backs a lot.  They are really not a deep threat team unless they send a TE down the middle.  Keep Tre on Brown.  San Francisco had a lot of success rushing to the edges rather than going up through the middle.  The Ravens will have the same problem the Bills have.  If you rush too deep, then JA will take off.  So their four interior lineman will stay home leaving the edges open.  Watching LJ run, he dekes more guys with his eyes than any QB I have seen.  Watch his hips, not his eyes.  Easier said than done.  SF was okay letting him get his 100.

 

Force them to wear their white uniforms.  Finding the ball against their all black uniforms make the job even harder.  Stopping their RBs on first down (again easier said than done) is critical.  Baltimore will go on 4th and whatever more than any team in history.  Harbaugh has bought into it.

 

Without knowing if it is true or not, I would venture to say Baltimore is the least penalized team in the NFL.  Conversely, Buffalo is good for 8-10 penalties a game.  You simply can't extend Baltimore drives with stupid penalties.

 

 

Edited December 2, 2019 by wjag

[Ethan in Cleveland]

I think out zone base defense with Lawson starting should matchup quite well. Hughes and Lawson and the backups just need to maintain containment. 

I would not spy him. My take is that works for scrambling QBs. Lamar's running is more designed runs.

Assuming there are not a lot of turnovers, I think this game will be won by time of possession . Bills need to convert third downs and keep ball away from Baltimore. If course turnovers change everything. Allen and Singletary need to play clean.

[mjt328]

1 hour ago, Mikey152 said:

Historically, the best defense against Lamar was in the playoffs last year, and it was...unconventional.

 

The Chargers played the vast majority of the game with SEVEN dbs on the field...they basically had safeties playing lb.  the idea is to increase the athleticism on the field so you can run with Lamar and cover their TE.  You are vulnerable to a power run game, so you have to be aggressive on running downs.

 

the nice thing is, the Bills can do something similar in a nickel defense.  Milano and Edmunds run And cover like safeties and can stay on the field in most situations, making the bills less vulnerable to a power run game.

 

so the answer, basically, is to play nickel defense all game, 2-3 safeties (depending on personnel), 7 or 8 in the box.  Hit Lamar whenever you can and make him pay for keeping it.  Play zone underneath and use the extra speed to limit scrambles from turning into big plays.

 

i actually think the Bills match up better than most...they will do ok containing Lamar.  The question is whether or not they can stop Ingram on the inside power stuff without sacrificing their athleticism

 

Not sure that works in 2019.

Baltimore made some adjustments in the offseason, specifically to combat this kind of defensive scheme.

 

Personnel-wise, you need to match up with their heavy 3-Tight End sets.  Otherwise, they are going to totally run you over.

The problem is, when you go heavy on the D-Line... you don't have the speed to catch Lamar Jackson on QB-keepers.

 

To me, you absolutely MUST keep Jackson in the pocket.  Instead of rushing the defender, your edge defenders need to play disciplined and keep him contained.  Your interior D-Line must play gap control, and keep blockers off the linebackers.  I'm also playing lots of Cover 1, using the extra safety to help cover the TEs and support in run coverage.  Make Jackson beat you with his arm.

 

 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

17 minutes ago, wjag said:

If you watch Baltimore you quickly realize that LJ throws between the hash marks, unless forced out of the pocket.  Defend the middle.  They use three tight ends a lot and throw to the backs a lot.  They are really not a deep threat team unless they send a TE down the middle.  Keep Tre on Brown.  San Francisco had a lot of success rushing to the edges rather than going up through the middle.  The Ravens will have the same problem the Bills have.  If you rush too deep, then JA will take off.  So their four interior lineman will stay home leaving the edges open.  Watching LJ run, he dekes more guys with his eyes than any QB I have seen.  Watch his hips, not his eyes.  Easier said than done.  SF was okay letting him get his 100.

 

Force them to wear their white uniforms.  Finding the ball against their all black uniforms make the job even harder.  Stopping their RBs on first down (again easier said than done) is critical.  Baltimore will go on 4th and whatever more than any team in history.  Harbaugh has bought into it.

 

Without knowing if it is true or not, I would venture to say Baltimore is the least penalized team in the NFL.  Conversely, Buffalo is good for 8-10 penalties a game.  You simply can't extend Baltimore drives with stupid penalties.

 

 

Excellent take. San Fran took some dumb penalties and made some odd field position choices. 

[freddyjj]

51 minutes ago, H2o said:

I want Hughes and Lawson on the field all game tbh, but Lorax is going to be a liability due to his limited athleticism imo more so than Coleman or Neal would be, against the run and trying to cover TE's. He just can't run with these guys. But if he were to make the correct read on every play, which is highly unlikely, then he could be a thumper against the run. The other guys just have more speed and overall athleticism that is going to be needed this week trying to keep up with these TE's and Ravens' ground game. Like I said, this is what I would do and not necessarily what the team is going to do. 

OBD might use Lorax in the DE rotation (Shaq, Jerry at RDE, Murphy Zo and Johnson at LDE) to help seal the edge and use just 2 LBs in Milano and Edmunds.  The 5th DB (Neal, Marlowe, T Johnson) will be big nickel and help with the 3rd TE in formation.   Hollywood Brown was quiet yesterday but Bills might have to play some different coverages to take him away.