Bills have second least amount of cap allocated to top 5 player

[wppete]

Pay out guys and keep drafting well. That was the plan from the beginning with McBeane. That how you build a contender.

[bigK14094]

9 hours ago, billspro said:

We will have to pay Allen, White, Milano, Edmunds, and Dawkins soon. This won’t last long.

Allen white and Edmunds were 1st rounders and have different rules than the other two.

57 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 
It’s called Stockholm Syndrome and 90% of this message board has it.

 

I think they want J Johnson to take over for Poyer next season.

Neal is around also......I thougt both Hyde and Poyers had 4 year deals...that would make 2020 the fourth year.

[foreboding]

It's also conceivable that we have a gm that knows how to navigate the cap and roster and we will not end up like any of the afore mentioned cautionary tales. Yea, this means cutting some guys but also funding FA gems and drafting well as we have been doing.

[Chaos]

10 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Maybe this is just my own bias....but frankly Beane looks to me like a GM of the year candidate.

 

Thoughts?

Lets be one of the 6 teams who gets a bye or wins a playoff game.  We are two games behind a team with zero starting line men from the beginning of the year, 1 WRs from the beginning of the year and a 42 year old QB.  Lets just win a playoff game before we start handing out prizes.  

[BuffaloRebound]

Jeez.  Let’s enjoy the ride.  Things change quickly in the NFL.  If you have a good QB and a good coach/organization, most of the other parts are replaceable.  

[billspro]

1 hour ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 
It’s called Stockholm Syndrome and 90% of this message board has it.

 

I think they want J Johnson to take over for Poyer next season.

 

I hope they franchise Poyer for next year if they believe Johnson has the ability to take over for him.

[SoTier]

9 hours ago, billsbackto81 said:

This is a very good point!

 

When you consider the mess that was inherited, the house cleaning purge that followed and the rebuild that began from there. 

 

This isn't the Jets or the Browns whose GMs were given the check book to go willy nilly on FAs on a quick fix to the post season. This is a rebuild that has been methodically thought out and designed on vision instead of buying sexy new toys.  Soon to be 2 post season appearances in 3 years? Rolling over 80+ million in cap space next year? Hell yes he deserves consideration for GM of the Year! But it is Buffalo....

 

Front runners are likely:

Baltimore GM

Niners GM

 

 

This post is mostly untrue.  McDermott and Beane did NOT "inherit" a mess.  They inherited a middle of the road offense that needed a QB and a good defense that needed better coaching.  They created their own "mess" by choosing to cut current salary and collect draft picks without regard to cap implications.  Brandon, Whaley, and McDermott let future All Pro DB Stephon Gilmore and two excellent WRs, Robert Woods and Marquise Goodwin, walk in FA without offering them competitive contracts.  In the draft, they chose to pass on two excellent QB prospects in order to trade back to take a replacement for Gilmore.  When Beane came aboard, his first notable transaction was to trade Sammy Watkins so that the Bills had no reasonable downfield threat.   He also traded away highly paid LT Cordy Glenn to move up in the draft to #7, which also incurred a major cap hit. The only player departure that contributed significantly to the 2018 dead cap problem that wasn't based on McDermott and Beane's personnel decisions was Wood's retirement due to injury.

 

One alternative to what Brandon/Whaley/McDermott did in 2017 would have given the Bills much more talent today.  They could have chosen to pay Gilmore and taken either Mahomes or Watson, both of whom were better prospects and are currently better QBs, than Josh Allen --- and both have as much leadership skills as Allen.  They could have chosen to let Gilmore walk but re-signed one or both of Woods or Goodwin.   That would have still left the Bills with a viable WR corps even after they traded away Watkins.  They wouldn't have wasted a third round pick on Benjamin and they could have kept Ronald Darby instead of trading him away for Matthews.

 

Another alternative was for the Bills to keep Tyrod Taylor, not take the cap hit, and not sign AJ McCarron.  Or if they just HAD to get rid of Taylor, then they should have named McCarron starter not had a rigged competition where McCarron and Allen played against first teams while Peterman played against scrubs so that he looked "better".

 

Moreover, McDermott and Beane WERE given a "blank check" -- and they made lots of faux pas.  Don't pretend otherwise.  The current team is about at the same talent level as the team that they inherited with the exception of QB and coaching. 

 

The jury is out on the Bills right now despite their big win against Dallas.   It's very likely that the Bills make the playoffs this year but there's no denying that they've been the recipient of some really good luck -- an easy schedule and some opponents' misfortunes (injuries, illnesses) and miscues (poor kicking) while largely avoiding major injuries to key players themselves.   They have also only played 1 truly top class NFL team this season, NE, and they've lost to 2 of the 3 other talented teams they faced (Philly and Cleveland).  

Nobody knows if they're good enough to go with the big boys of the AFC like Baltimore, KC, Indy or Pittsburgh much less whichever bully comes out of the loaded NFC.

[Gambit]

2 hours ago, Buffalo Junction said:

The Star that’s shown up the past couple games is worth his contract. The Star that showed up the first half of the season isn’t... At his salary one would expect a splash play every 1-2 games. His recent surge is a contributing factor to Oliver taking a step forward and some of these stunts working brilliantly. 

Oh I 100% agree with you. If he continues the excellent playing from recently then there shouldn't be any reason to remove him. Trent can just go tho. He honestly should never see the field. 

[YattaOkasan]

2 hours ago, ganesh said:

First order of business is:

Poyer

Lawson (if they want to retain him)

Jordan Phillips

 

I see Murphy and Kroft being let go this coming offseason to apy for the above three.  Alexander's modest contract also comes off the books as he is retiring.

 

All three are going to demand top-5 money.  These will be the extensions in 2020.

 

Then comes  Milano, Dawkins and White.   Again will be Top-5 (if not the highest) money in 2021.  We probably will also have to extend Hyde and Hughes here.

 

And in year three we will have to pay Allen and Edmunds,    I assume Star's contract will come off the books at that point. 

 

You’re not letting Murphy or Kroft go this year as that would cost you money (Kroft) or give you minimum savings. I know Shaq is gonna wanna be paid but so many lolz if he thinks he’s getting top 5 money. Even Jordan Phillips probably shouldn’t be top 5 in money. If that’s their line I’m ok with letting them go based on the whole body of their work. 

33 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

This post is mostly untrue.  McDermott and Beane did NOT "inherit" a mess.  They inherited a middle of the road offense that needed a QB and a good defense that needed better coaching.  They created their own "mess" by choosing to cut current salary and collect draft picks without regard to cap implications.  Brandon, Whaley, and McDermott let future All Pro DB Stephon Gilmore and two excellent WRs, Robert Woods and Marquise Goodwin, walk in FA without offering them competitive contracts.  In the draft, they chose to pass on two excellent QB prospects in order to trade back to take a replacement for Gilmore.  When Beane came aboard, his first notable transaction was to trade Sammy Watkins so that the Bills had no reasonable downfield threat.   He also traded away highly paid LT Cordy Glenn to move up in the draft to #7, which also incurred a major cap hit. The only player departure that contributed significantly to the 2018 dead cap problem that wasn't based on McDermott and Beane's personnel decisions was Wood's retirement due to injury.

 

One alternative to what Brandon/Whaley/McDermott did in 2017 would have given the Bills much more talent today.  They could have chosen to pay Gilmore and taken either Mahomes or Watson, both of whom were better prospects and are currently better QBs, than Josh Allen --- and both have as much leadership skills as Allen.  They could have chosen to let Gilmore walk but re-signed one or both of Woods or Goodwin.   That would have still left the Bills with a viable WR corps even after they traded away Watkins.  They wouldn't have wasted a third round pick on Benjamin and they could have kept Ronald Darby instead of trading him away for Matthews.

 

Another alternative was for the Bills to keep Tyrod Taylor, not take the cap hit, and not sign AJ McCarron.  Or if they just HAD to get rid of Taylor, then they should have named McCarron starter not had a rigged competition where McCarron and Allen played against first teams while Peterman played against scrubs so that he looked "better".

 

Moreover, McDermott and Beane WERE given a "blank check" -- and they made lots of faux pas.  Don't pretend otherwise.  The current team is about at the same talent level as the team that they inherited with the exception of QB and coaching. 

 

The jury is out on the Bills right now despite their big win against Dallas.   It's very likely that the Bills make the playoffs this year but there's no denying that they've been the recipient of some really good luck -- an easy schedule and some opponents' misfortunes (injuries, illnesses) and miscues (poor kicking) while largely avoiding major injuries to key players themselves.   They have also only played 1 truly top class NFL team this season, NE, and they've lost to 2 of the 3 other talented teams they faced (Philly and Cleveland).  

Nobody knows if they're good enough to go with the big boys of the AFC like Baltimore, KC, Indy or Pittsburgh much less whichever bully comes out of the loaded NFC.

Agree mcbeane created this “mess” but your hindsight game is silly to me. A couple of those moves I agree could be seen as letting a good player (Gilmore) but at the end of the day they have gotten us into a really good position for the future. I never felt that way with Whaley. So yeah they tore it down but damn if the rebuild doesn’t look good. 

[Foxx]

12 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Maybe this is just my own bias....but frankly Beane looks to me like a GM of the year candidate.

 

Thoughts?

no question about it. who else would even be close at this point? Lynch and DeCosta maybe, but that's about it.

Edited November 30, 2019 by Foxx

[Seoulofstone]

11 hours ago, Rbleyle said:

Cutting Star saves over 2 million.  With the amount of cap space we have taking a 7.8 million cap hit is very doable since we will want to re-sign Phillips.  I don’t see Hughes going anywhere, he’s the only decent edge rusher on this team, and we just re-signed him. 

 

 I think you're projecting what you hope for onto that situation. Let's look at the facts. 7.8 mill dead money for a 2 mill cap saving? That's making a move for the sake of it and not something a conservative coach is likely to do. McD loves him since Carolina and defended him even before his play picked up. He's not going to be cut to save 2 mill just because Bills fans hate him because he's overpaid for a DT. Now 2021 when his dead money number is 5.2 versus 5.6 cap saving, I think there is a much bigger chance he's cut.

[MJS]

11 hours ago, billspro said:

We will have to pay Allen, White, Milano, Edmunds, and Dawkins soon. This won’t last long.

It would be tough to lose any of those players. Love them all. Luckily some of them are still far down the line.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

Jordna Phillips and Shaq Lawson will need to be paid this off-season and they should  both receive contracts large enough that put them into our top 5 for next season I would think.

3 hours ago, Mat68 said:

Baltimore was a playoff team last year.  I think it's down to Lynch or Beane.  Add in the cap space I think Beane should get it.  

 

I think they sneaked into the wild card though right? They have a legitimate chance this year to be the #1 overall seed in the AFC IF they can get by us next weekend. Plus they possibly have the league MVP. I think Ozzie is still the running.

[Seoulofstone]

3 hours ago, Mat68 said:

Baltimore was a playoff team last year.  I think it's down to Lynch or Beane.  Add in the cap space I think Beane should get it.  

 

When Lynch was hired they had among the highest available cap. Virtually every Dlineman on that defence is not just a first rounder but a top 20 pick. He didn't draft a QB and the jury is still out on Garropolo. They have a really brilliant HC but considering what they started with they really should be playoff contenders. What makes Buffalo so much more impressive is that Beane started with an old roster close to the cap but he has freed up a ton of space while creating a foundation of good young players. It's also why I think the hindsight analysis of@SoTier misses the mark.

 

   He says just pay Gilmore, Woods, Darby conveniently ignoring that they couldn't afford to. It also completely ignores the fact that McD wanted to build the team with guys he wanted which whether or not you like that makes a ton of sense and is borne out by the culture you now see. Every GM in the league is wishing they hadn't undervalued Mahomes and Watson.

[Magox]

But I was told by some on this board that the Bills were the cause of the salary cap mess 

[Buffalo Junction]

1 hour ago, Gambit said:

Oh I 100% agree with you. If he continues the excellent playing from recently then there shouldn't be any reason to remove him. Trent can just go tho. He honestly should never see the field. 

Yup. The Murphy signing was a dud. I understand taking a shot on the guy, but it hasn’t really panned out... time to move on. We’ll see what the off-season brings. Hopefully it’s a top WR, DE, and some linemen. Regardless, I’d like to see J Phillips back, but he may have played his way into a contract Beane won’t offer with other players coming up soon. The guy seems to like it here though, so if they offer a fair and relatively competitive offer I imagine Phillips will return. Shaq IDK about... which means they may just keep Murphy if Shaq leaves in FA which I don’t want to see. Gonna be interesting for sure. 

Edited November 30, 2019 by Buffalo Junction

[MDH]

12 hours ago, Rbleyle said:

Star is very average with an above average salary (#13 for DTs).  If an upgrade is available we should cut our losses if not ask him to take a cut.  

Cutting Star after this season  doesn’t save much cap space. He’d have a huge dead cap number. He’ll be with the team next year and likely be fine after that.

[bills6969]

When would we give Allen a new contract?  Obviously, his rookie deal is good thru 2021, but we don't and shouldnt have to wait until then to resign him?

Edited November 30, 2019 by bills6969

[LABILLBACKER]

12 hours ago, billspro said:

We will have to pay Allen, White, Milano, Edmunds, and Dawkins soon. This won’t last long.

This is true, enjoy this cap situation while it lasts. We must extend Josh after next season.

[MDH]

12 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

That's gonna change in the next two years.  Tre' White should get a fat extension this off-season in the neighborhood of $15M-16M/year, and then Josh after 2020 and the new CBA in the neighborhood of $30M/year.

You don’t extend the QB after year 3. Teams have to take advantage of their rookie deals to extend their window as long as possible. It’ll be after year 4 (at the earliest, they could conceivably wait until after they do the optional 5th year)  that they’ll extend Allen.