HOUSE Posted November 30, 2019 Posted November 30, 2019 1 hour ago, TC in St. Louis said: I threw my shoe and put a hole in the wall. Morris fumbled the ball while he was in the air. We recovered. Ruled no fumble. 15 on Toomay for bumping the ref. Nottingham up the middle for 50 on the next play. jerry Bergman was the ref. Ralph said he would never work another Bills game. He was fined, but Bergman never worked another Bills game. That game was clearly fixed. Anyone who saw that game will never believe otherwise.
Moose Posted November 30, 2019 Posted November 30, 2019 8 hours ago, Rc2catch said: Every fan base even the patriots deal with the same bad calls we do. Can you give even one example of that in the last 22 years?
loveorhatembillsfan4life Posted November 30, 2019 Posted November 30, 2019 I think there are refs who come in with a preconceived notion of possibly favouring one side more than the other. I have a thought time believing they are completely neutral. when Rex was here, he talked about being a bully On the field . I think the nfl was more likely to Look for calls against us. I think when you hear buffalo bills players come out and say he heard the referee say “just give it to them” game against Dallas I saw more illegal hand penalties in five minutes than I have all season. Pretty ticky tacky on one of the best corners in the league. i listened to Charlie Weis talk about Josh Allen does not get a call sliding feet first when the bigger names qb get that call all the time. a rule is a rule so when it’s blatantly obvious to miss a call because you are not Tom Brady is ridiculous.
MAJBobby Posted November 30, 2019 Posted November 30, 2019 10 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said: I'm the first to admit when I'm wrong and that I drone on about a few topics - turnovers, replay challenges for all plays, and how bad Murphy is come to mind. I would like folks on this board to admit if they really believe the officiating of games is fixed or even influenced by certain owners and teams. Complaints about the officiating is one of the most annoying things about this board and in particular the in-game thread. My hunch is most of it is just frustration but I'm also a bit scared to see how many people actually think the fix is in. I think better teams and better players will get the benefit of the doubt a few times a game. But I also think that is no different in any sport. I also think the officials make amazing spots and calls in full speed real time the vast majority of the time. They also miss things, but not to the benefit or detriment to any specific teams. I think the real issue is that there are refs that have money on games. PURE SPECULATION but there have been enough instances that calls change the game to cover a spread, not cover a spread etc etc.
4merper4mer Posted November 30, 2019 Posted November 30, 2019 Why else would I gave gotten so angry about a Lions/Packers game that I didn't even care about when it started? That crap definitely changed the course of Detroit's season. There is simply a 0% chance that if the roles were reversed that the call would have been the same.
BeastMaster Posted November 30, 2019 Posted November 30, 2019 Some of these guys are definitely on the take, and some of them take instruction from the league on what they want the outcome to be. Some like Boger have ties to teams (Pats) which should absolutely not happen. And it's all hidden/excused because of the many excuses like I've seen in this thread. "It's a tough job" , "there may be pre conceived notions going into the game", yadda, yadda. Keep brushing it off as simply mistakes or whatnot. That's why it continues on. When Dallas gets two tripping penalties in Foxboro (one on the potential GW drive and 3rd down conversion) and we can clearly see nothing has happened, it's obviously way more than a simple mistake. The hands calls on Tre White early on were to make sure Buffalo didn't get physical with their star WR. Meanwhile in NE, Gilmore shuts down Cooper because he can play him physically which takes him out of his game. Get real, folks! The money involved here makes it too much for people of power not to have their hands in it...just like anything else. Or it that conspiracy too? 1
Don Otreply Posted November 30, 2019 Posted November 30, 2019 It’s more of a case of leniency on the refs part, favoring some teams more than others, an example of this is the cowboys game, they hit Josh while he is sliding and the cowboys are given a warning, (video footage shown on this forum) not a penalty that should have been applied, again leniency, and that shows a favoritism that is not applied to all teams. That’s all I got. Go Bills!!!
bigK14094 Posted November 30, 2019 Posted November 30, 2019 10 hours ago, oldmanfan said: Do I believe it’s fixed? No. But some of the calls in the first half yesterday made me wonder more than usual. The zebra's missed the hit(s) put on J Allen in Q1 on Thursday......he was sliding, and got hit by two guys. Romo even commented on the broadcast. And, of course, on the broadcast the "broadcast official" (Seritori) was not asked to comment on the no call. Our QB deserves the same protections as other QB's, I don't care if he is a running stud of a QB!
oldmanfan Posted November 30, 2019 Posted November 30, 2019 10 minutes ago, bigK14094 said: The zebra's missed the hit(s) put on J Allen in Q1 on Thursday......he was sliding, and got hit by two guys. Romo even commented on the broadcast. And, of course, on the broadcast the "broadcast official" (Seritori) was not asked to comment on the no call. Our QB deserves the same protections as other QB's, I don't care if he is a running stud of a QB! That was one of them to be sure
H2o Posted November 30, 2019 Posted November 30, 2019 As a whole I don't know if it is completely rigged, but since the early 2000's I have seen some games where it can really sway you that way. The one that stands out most to me is the Seahawks/Steelers SB. Ben was not in on the dive where they gave him a TD, but it was called that way even after review. After that Hasselbeck throws an INT, is chasing the guy down along the sideline, throws his body in there in an attempt to make a tackle, but the ref throws a flag for a "Chop Block" on the play? How can you be called for a chop block trying to make a tackle? It just so happened that was to be Steelers' RB, Jerome Bettis, last game and he was in his hometown for the SB. On Thursday it seemed apparent that the refs were gonna give the Cowboys every chance on the field. Even that first TD drive was aided by a timely, ghost illegal contact call. The guy hitting Allen on the slide, but the refs conveniently give Dallas a warning instead of a flag. Bottom line is we were the better team and overcame the shade thrown our way.
BarleyNY Posted November 30, 2019 Posted November 30, 2019 First and foremost the NFL is a business. Star players and popular teams are going to get the benefit of some calls or no calls. It’s kinda like a permanent, extra home field advantage. Think of Allen’s first quarter slide against Dallas where he got hit. Can anyone imagine flags not flying if that had been Brady? The good news is that while it’s difficult to earn yourself into that position, it can be done.
entropyrules Posted November 30, 2019 Posted November 30, 2019 (edited) Not an organized or even disorganized conspiracy. I agree with those who feel its an internal/unconscious bias that some officials have for teams with either winning records, at home, or have large followings (i.e Cowgirls as an example)..the corollary to that is also a bit true in that "downtrodden" teams like the Bills are probably considered fodder by some of the officials. No matter what The Pats definitely get more breaks than normal and whats stupid about that is they really don't need those breaks with the coach and QB they have. Edited November 30, 2019 by entropyrules
Gugny Posted November 30, 2019 Posted November 30, 2019 8 hours ago, kbarrettb said: Cool so they’re 9 and why have the jets been a dumpster fire in a bigger market. Why has Dallas not been good in 3 decades. LA has two teams yet they’re not in the playoff race. Dumb dumb dumb. Fanatics with their idiotic takes. Because something bad happened in a game with human officials. Stop blaming refs. The bills are 9-3 is it because the refs were paid or is it cause they’re good. Get over yourself. You're not a nice person. But I still love you. 1
finn Posted November 30, 2019 Posted November 30, 2019 I really doubt there's a conspiracy on the ref level, but there might as well be, because the bias is real and has a real, measurable impact on games. You can find plenty of good books on the subject. Scorecasting by Jon Wortheim, for instance. He shows the statistical evidence of bias against the visiting team in several sports, for instance, as well as other kinds of bias, like against Jeremy Lin of the Knicks. He's Korean so can't be good. So, yeah, poor Tommy is brushed in the pocket and the limbic brain of the ref panics thinking of the consequences that'll ensue if he doesn't protect this god-like figure whose autograph he would love to have. The NFL could make these weekly controversies go away by hiring refs full time and providing them with better training, including bias training. If you're looking for a conspiracy, that's where you're more likely to find it: the owners are perfectly happy to tip the scales in favor of famous players and popular teams whose winning makes them rich. so they're not likely to take these steps.
BuffaloBill963 Posted November 30, 2019 Posted November 30, 2019 11 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said: I'm the first to admit when I'm wrong and that I drone on about a few topics - turnovers, replay challenges for all plays, and how bad Murphy is come to mind. I would like folks on this board to admit if they really believe the officiating of games is fixed or even influenced by certain owners and teams. Complaints about the officiating is one of the most annoying things about this board and in particular the in-game thread. My hunch is most of it is just frustration but I'm also a bit scared to see how many people actually think the fix is in. I think better teams and better players will get the benefit of the doubt a few times a game. But I also think that is no different in any sport. I also think the officials make amazing spots and calls in full speed real time the vast majority of the time. They also miss things, but not to the benefit or detriment to any specific teams. Anyone who thinks the NFL isn't HIGHLY scripted, rigged at many levels and in many ways, is a big part of the reason why they get away with it. They sometimes do a crappy job? ? These men and women are integral to a ridiculously high grossing sport/entertainment entity that our entire country is obsessed with, and people think this can be chalked up to 'they sometimes do a crappy job?' You're scared to see how many people actually think the fix is in? What? Why would that scare you? But I guess dispassionate, objective analysis of any subject scares the average person. 1 1
finn Posted November 30, 2019 Posted November 30, 2019 6 minutes ago, BuffaloBill963 said: Anyone who thinks the NFL isn't HIGHLY scripted, rigged at many levels and in many ways, is a big part of the reason why they get away with it. They sometimes do a crappy job? ? These men and women are integral to a ridiculously high grossing sport/entertainment entity that our entire country is obsessed with, and people think this can be chalked up to 'they sometimes do a crappy job?' You're scared to see how many people actually think the fix is in? What? Why would that scare you? But I guess dispassionate, objective analysis of any subject scares the average person. Yeah, and the Holocaust never happened, the Moon walk was faked, Sandy Hook was phony and 9/11 was a Jewish conspiracy. Occam's razor, buddy.
BuffaloBill963 Posted November 30, 2019 Posted November 30, 2019 Just now, finn said: Yeah, and the Holocaust never happened, the Moon walk was faked, Sandy Hook was phony and 9/11 was a Jewish conspiracy. Occam's razor, buddy. ? I love people like you. There are no unnecessary assumptions being made. Some people, you know, actually research and understand how to get to the most objective source(s). Based on your post, you're clearly not capable of organic thought. Good luck in life. You need it. 1
Stranded in Boston Posted November 30, 2019 Posted November 30, 2019 I don't believe in conspiracies or rigged games, and I think the refs are doing the best job they can do as humans observing a very fast, chaotic game. But there is *implicit* bias in sensory perception (it's my line of work -- don't ask!). Lots of experimental evidence suggests that our perceptual interpretations are influenced not only by the objective sensory information entering our brains (visual, auditory, etc.), but also by our *expectation* of what should happen/usually happens. For any experts out there, this falls under the rubric of Bayesian inference, in which the perceptual decision -- the "posterior probability" -- is a computed (according to Bayes' theorem) from incoming information AND a "prior probability" encapsulating bias, expectation, etc. Just like us fans, refs undoubtedly have priors about which teams are "better", "more disciplined", etc., that tip the balance in interpreting virtually identical plays. Unfortunately, the Bills have a reputation of being a mediocre, undisciplined team for some 20 years, which impacts referees' decisions on a moment-by-moment basis. Stephon Gilmore is a good example: you can see how confidently he interferes with receivers now, since he left the Bills for the Pats (I've heard claims that he is flagged as much in NE as he is with the Bills, but to my eye he also engages in much more contact with receivers.) Another example is the Cowboys only getting a sideline warning for spearing Josh on his slide rather than a flag (see the Cowboys' mic'd up highlights), whereas the current Bills would be penalized 100% for that infraction. I also remember the Bills getting away with a lot of calls in the early 90s, when they were usually considered the more "disciplined" team on the field. Implicit bias is a tough problem in refereeing, but what to do about it? I imagine that refs discuss this a lot in training, but it's pretty hard to resist something that's been burned into our brain circuits over eons of evolution! Maybe we'll have real-time machine-vision/AI solutions in the future. I have colleagues working on this now, LOL. 1
MattM Posted November 30, 2019 Posted November 30, 2019 8 hours ago, kbarrettb said: Yes I’m Mr Kraft. I can’t stand the Patriots. I’ve been a Bills fan in California since I was 8. But this nonsensical conspiracy theory the refs are rigging it has got to stop. There is no conspiracy. There is no Buffalo is a small market so let’s treat them ***** stuff going on. Green Bay’s in the middle of no where Wisconsin and they get play everywhere. If the Bills weren’t a laughing stock for 18 years they’d get more play simple as that. Kansas City is in no where town and Maholmes is talked about as the second coming. If your talented the media will find you. Mike Trout plays in Anaheim and he’s won 3 MVPs. If the Angels were better he’d have even more but they’ve sucked since he’s been there. Be better. The Bills are better now. Hopefully it continues. Stop having a baby mentality and stop blaming it on the refs. Let’s go Bills end of rant. Very simple question—name us some games New England has lost on blatantly bad calls over the years. We can all literally name about a dozen or more they’ve won that way. I follow this all fairly closely and can name 1 they lost on an arguably bad call (a Monday or Sunday nighter vs Carolina about 6-7 years ago). Shouldn’t it even out at some point if it were truly random or even semi-random? And it doesn’t have to be the League itself fixing games—any billionaire certainly has the resources to explore doing it. And remember, we had an owner who didn’t even swear. Bob Kraft, meanwhile, started dating a woman his granddaughter’s age several months after his wife died. Not to mention assorted other moral issues he’s had....,
BuffaloBill963 Posted November 30, 2019 Posted November 30, 2019 10 hours ago, kbarrettb said: You’re dumb. What possible reason could they have to have a Patriots bias. They aren’t a massive media market. If they’d want big name teams to do well then why do the Jets And Giants suck so bad. Why have the Cowboys not won a championship since the 90s. Why is Kansas City in the lead of the AFC West when you have the number 2 media market Chargers from LA sucking. Why’d they let the Rams lose to the Patriots last year. It could possibly be because you know the Patriots have the best coach and best quarterback of all time. Refs screw up just like regular people do at their jobs. But it’s not some damn conspiracy. The Patriots were dog ***** till the last 20 years. I wonder why maybe it ya something to do with the players and the coach. Not some government nfl conspiracy. Get off the bottle and get into reality. But you’re right so much conspiracy. That’s why the Dodgers and the Yankees met in the World Series this year and not the Astros and Nationals. Give me a break. You have no concept of what reality is. Your mind works exactly how it's been programmed to work. 'goverenment nfl conspiracy'? Yes, because objective analysis and asking anything resembling a critical question is akin to pushing 'some government nfl conspiracy'? WHAT? Haha. WTF does the government have to do with this?
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