Bill Barnwell snipes at Allen, and gets shredded in response

[Doc]

Opinions...

[JoPoy88]

For those curious:

 

“Total QBR was developed by a team at ESPN Stats & Information Group including Jeff Bennett, Dean Oliver, Alok Pattani, Albert Larcada, and Menlo College professor Ben Alamar. The group also received input from ESPN analysts Trent Dilfer, Jon Gruden, and Ron Jaworski. Total QBR was developed based on analysis of 60,000 NFL plays between 2008-2010, and was unveiled on August 5, 2011. The formula was modified in 2012 and again in 2013.”

[Philly McButterpants]

8 hours ago, DC Tom said:

 

Because QBR is garbage.

 

Any "statistical measure" that includes "clutch-weighted expected points added on penalties" is a joke.  What the hell does that even mean?  Clutch expected penalties?

It's a meaning less stat that allows TB12 to look good when the Pat*s get a favorable PI call on 3rd and forever every damn game.  

[H2o]

1 hour ago, JoPoy88 said:

For those curious:

 

“Total QBR was developed by a team of dumb*sses at ESPN Stats & Information Group including Jeff Bennett, Dean Oliver, Alok Pattani, Albert Larcada, and Menlo College professor Ben Alamar. The group also received input from ESPN analysts Trent Dilfer, Jon Gruden, and Ron Jaworski. Total QBR was developed based on analysis of 60,000 NFL plays between 2008-2010, and was unveiled on August 5, 2011. The formula was modified in 2012 and again in 2013 to make it even more worthless.”

Fify. This is the ESPN version of a LAMS (look at me stat)

Edited November 30, 2019 by Hapless Bills Fan
edited quoted material without some indication

[Hapless Bills Fan]

12 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

That's honestly insane. Wow.

 

I forget what game it was, but there was a game in the Bronco's Tebow days, 2011, a loss to Minn I think, where he threw 10-15 for 202 yds and 2 TDs, 0 INTs.  His play was clearly not enough to help his team win.  The Pack barely won over the Giants and Rodgers threw 28-47 for 369 yds and 4 TDs, 1 INT.    His play was clearly key to the win.

 

It might have been a different game but similar disparity - and Tebow had a higher QBR. 

 

They asked Aaron Rodgers about it and he just shook his head.

 

9 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

Not when he was in Buffalo from what I recall. Maybe after he left?

 

The QBR stat is an odd one that doesn't make sense this year. How is it that Allen, a QB that has so much value added by running, which QBR is supposed to account for in its rating, has a lower QBR ranking than he does traditional passer rating ranking? Allen is ranked 24th in QBR and 22nd in passer rating.  I mean honestly, how is that even possible?  

 

It's not just this year, that was the first year (2011) and it didn't align with what people could meaningfully, and by direct, easy to measure statistics, consider as a QB's contribution to the game (passing yards, rushing yards, TDs by any means, fumbles, INTs, sacks etc).  Calling total QBR a statistic is a stretch to me

[DCOrange]

17 hours ago, HappyDays said:

If I recall correctly, Barnwell had Jackson and Allen as his lowest rated QBs of the 1st rounders taken that year. Take his opinion for what it's worth.

Lowest rated in terms of what? Barnwell doesn't do draft scouting.

16 hours ago, youngjebrey said:

I laugh so hard at QBR. The list is great with jameis Winston always in the top 10 

Jameis has been top 10 once; last year when he only played half the season.

14 hours ago, MDH said:

All I need to understand what a trash statistic QBR is is that Josh Allen has a higher QBR last year than this.

 

If a stat doesn’t show the huge improvement to his game then that stat isn’t even worth considering.

 

FWIW, Allen's QBR over the past 7 games would slot him in at 13th in the league. It's just that he was bad for the first few games and it's weighed his overall ranking down.

[DCOrange]

9 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

Not when he was in Buffalo from what I recall. Maybe after he left?

 

 

The QBR stat is an odd one that doesn't make sense this year. How is it that Allen, a QB that has so much value added by running, which QBR is supposed to account for in its rating, has a lower QBR ranking than he does traditional passer rating ranking? Allen is ranked 24th in QBR and 22nd in passer rating.  I mean honestly, how is that even possible?  

Passer rating basically just focuses on completion percentage, passing TDs, and INTs. He hasn't thrown INTs outside of the first few games, so his passer rating has increased a ton.

 

It doesn't factor in the fumble woes he had earlier in the year, the dropped INTs, etc. that QBR factors in.

 

He also hasn't added THAT much value as a runner this year. He's only 7th in the league in that regard. He's been good at running it in at the end of the drives, but QBR is all about expected points added, so the fact that he hasn't used his running ability all that much up until they actually get to the end zone results in his rushing value not being as high as you might expect.

Edited November 30, 2019 by DCOrange

[PromoTheRobot]

LOL, I just discovered I can't see Barnwell's tweets because the asshat banned me. I don't even recall why.

[Jay_Fixit]

17 hours ago, Phil The Thrill said:

I’ve called Bill Barnwell the most biased reporter out there, right up up there with Cian “Begging for $ on Patreon” Fahey.  
 

When people try to cite Barnwell, the lose credit with me.  
 

Barnwell’s a real coward much like Fahey.  Both blocked me when I challenged their opinion.  A sign of a true coward who puts out a controversial take and can’t handle criticism. 

Both blocked me as well. They can’t take criticism.

[CardinalScotts]

who is this guy?

 

this line here

 

He just comes off as a self-important jerk who thinks only his opinion matter.  He’s in the same league as Cian The Coward Fahey

 

sounds like a Mike Schopp attitude

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

Just now, CardinalScotts said:

who is this guy?

From his pictures, I would think he’s a member of the Hair Club for Men.

[ROCBillsBeliever]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

LOL, I just discovered I can't see Barnwell's tweets because the asshat banned me. I don't even recall why.

 

Because:

 

1) You make sense

 

2) You are not a troll

 

3) You aren't a TB12 fan

 

Simple, really. 

[Phil The Thrill]

11 hours ago, Success said:

People in the punditry will generally never give up on whatever their original evaluation of a player was.

 

I've seen that a lot with Allen.  So many "experts" had him as the classic big-armed guy who certain scouts fell in love with but always failed in the NFL.  All of the "accuracy can't be taught" stuff that people just repeat without thinking about it.  And they say it so much that they convince themselves it's immutable fact. They don't allow themselves to consider another possibility.

 

I swear, Allen will be hoisting the Lombardi over his head, and a lot of those guys will still be calling him an inaccurate bust.

Im finding that a lot of analysts who were down on Allen HAVE in fact admitted they were wrong.  Benjamin Albright did recently and several others have as well.  
 

It’s the self-important, ultra sensitive writers that have not - names Bill Barnwell or Cian Fahey.  Both have me blocked on Twitter for challenging their opinions of Tyrod.  

[Saxum]

19 hours ago, HOUSE said:

Twitter cancelled my sign in....guess why?

Lack of use...nuff said

 

You are not a big enough twit, take it as a compliment.

 

Only really good thing twitter is for is videos which have 15-30 seconds between them on NFL even when you replay. 

[stosh64]

Here is barnwell the clowns latest article.

"Don't count out the Dallas Cowboys yet: Why they could make an NFL playoff run" 

espn

Shocking view point, I know...

ETA a little relevant snippet,

Quote

a 26-15 loss to the Bills at home on Thanksgiving ruined dinners across America.

 

Against the Bills, too, the game might have gone differently if the Cowboys' specialists had done better. Maher saw a 35-yard field goal attempt blocked just before halftime and later missed a 47-yarder. The Bills weren't much better -- Stephen Hauschka missed a field goal attempt, an extra point attempt and saw another field goal bounce in off an upright -- but if Maher makes those two early field goals attempts, the Cowboys aren't in desperation mode and don't (necessarily) have to go for it on each of their two failed fourth-down tries in the fourth quarter.

What a clown.

Edited November 30, 2019 by stosh64

[HappyDays]

2 hours ago, DCOrange said:

FWIW, Allen's QBR over the past 7 games would slot him in at 13th in the league. It's just that he was bad for the first few games and it's weighed his overall ranking down.

 

He was terrible against the Pats but clearly better than last year in every other game. In every other conceivable stat - passer rating, YPG, ANY/A, DVOA, YPA, sack percentage, TD%, INT%, completion % - he has improved this year. The only thing that has gotten worse is his rush YPG and YPC. This leads me to believe that QBR way over values rushing from a QB. There is no other explanation for that metric saying he is worse this year than last year. Mind boggling stuff.

[GoBills808]

2 hours ago, DCOrange said:

Passer rating basically just focuses on completion percentage, passing TDs, and INTs. He hasn't thrown INTs outside of the first few games, so his passer rating has increased a ton.

 

It doesn't factor in the fumble woes he had earlier in the year, the dropped INTs, etc. that QBR factors in.

 

He also hasn't added THAT much value as a runner this year. He's only 7th in the league in that regard. He's been good at running it in at the end of the drives, but QBR is all about expected points added, so the fact that he hasn't used his running ability all that much up until they actually get to the end zone results in his rushing value not being as high as you might expect.

Passer rating is imo about as bad a stat as QBR. 

[RaoulDuke79]

This Twitter thing sounds like a real hoot. Maybe I should sign up to see if I can get blocked by Barnwell.

[dave mcbride]

12 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

Not when he was in Buffalo from what I recall. Maybe after he left?

 

 

The QBR stat is an odd one that doesn't make sense this year. How is it that Allen, a QB that has so much value added by running, which QBR is supposed to account for in its rating, has a lower QBR ranking than he does traditional passer rating ranking? Allen is ranked 24th in QBR and 22nd in passer rating.  I mean honestly, how is that even possible?  

Because it is a really stupid system.

36 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

He was terrible against the Pats but clearly better than last year in every other game. In every other conceivable stat - passer rating, YPG, ANY/A, DVOA, YPA, sack percentage, TD%, INT%, completion % - he has improved this year. The only thing that has gotten worse is his rush YPG and YPC. This leads me to believe that QBR way over values rushing from a QB. There is no other explanation for that metric saying he is worse this year than last year. Mind boggling stuff.

His ypc is down in large part because of the increased rate of kneel downs. For real.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

1 hour ago, RaoulDuke79 said:

This Twitter thing sounds like a real hoot. Maybe I should sign up to see if I can get blocked by Barnwell.

A quick read through of this thread shows six TBD-TSW contributors have been blocked by Barnwell.  A ‘journalist / blogger’ running around stamping out brush fires instead of writing about sports.  Awfully ‘thin skinned’ of him.  ESPN’s Timmah?