As a die hard Wyoming fan why the negativity towards Josh?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

18 hours ago, The Virginian said:

I'm perplexed by the negativity directed at Josh Allen by some so-called Buffalo fans.  What don't you like about being 9-3?  Back when he was drafted, several members of Poke Nation, me included, came on here to assure you that you were getting a guy that would be totally dedicated to the team, the city, and it's fans.  Stats, schmatz.  He's the face of the franchise and a winner.  What more do you need?

 

I slept on this post, Virginian, because I wanted to give it a good and thoughtful answer, and that was just something I couldn't have done last night.  Last night was special, after the win, basking in the sweet sight of Jerrah's tears, the video from the Beasley Mosh Pit (I mean, Visitors locker room), and most important the score board. 

 

Bills Win, Play Gloria! 

 

(I'm from St Louis).

 

Today I'll take a crack at it.  I'm trying to be honest and give you a serious answer here, so please respect that and work with me here - read this through.

 

First of all, and I say this in the most respectful way: fold that "so-called Buffalo fans" thing until it's all corners and stick it somewhere dark and moist.  I've been a Bills fan since the mid-60s watching with my Grandpa and there is nothing, NOTHING, about sad-ass football play, great teams, bad management, eternal hope for success, and monumental disappointment that any other fans can tell me.  Bills fans have had our hearts broken for years.  I am far less skeptical and far less bitter than many, but I recognize my brothers and sisters in those that are skeptical.  We are for reals not "so-called Buffalo fans," we are Buffalo fans.  No parentheses, no quotation marks.

 

Josh Allen.  First, the Amazeballs stuff.  That 4th and 1 was the most unreal play I've ever seen on a pro-football field by an NFL QB, and that's the Real Deal Josh Allen.  Garrett couldn't believe it.  He was looking at the scoreboard like a stunned toddler watching the ice cream truck drive away with his cone still on it.  Tony Romo was in disbelief:  "The quarterback just out-aggressived the entire defensive line!"  And it was clear from watching Allen's college film and from watching last year, that any minute of any game you can see that from him.  You could see it in the Vikes game when he jumped over Anthony Barr.  I think he more or less gave the same explanation: "I really wanted it." 

 

It's that simple.  That's the essential Josh Allen:  "I really wanted it".   Take a guy with a brave heart who really really wants it, and if he's an elite athlete (which Josh plainly is) Good Stuff can happen on any down.

 

Now we come to the more complicated part.  

 

As Buffalo Bills fans, we've lived through the reality of a number of QBs who were good people; dedicated to the team, the city and its fans; even amazing athletes in some regards, and as the QB of the Buffalo Bills just simply couldn't get it done.  With all the dedication and will in the world, they were missing a piece of what's needed.  The most recent example of this would be Ryan Fitzpatrick.  Fierce competitor, great football mind, better athlete than one might think, loved Buffalo, loved the fans, totally dedicated - and just does not have the arm and possibly the football judgement to be an NFL starting QB.  Before that we had 1st round picks EJ Manuel and JP Losman - good people, dedicated to the team, city and fans - and just didn't have the ability to play QB at the NFL level.   There were just different needed pieces that they lacked and could not gain.

 

I don't say this to compare Allen to these guys, but to help understanding of the context.  We as fans have learned that dedication is not enough.

 

Josh Allen.   The reasons I did not want the Bills to draft him still lurk: what I saw when I watched all the Wyo game film I could get my hands on, was a guy who was particularly inaccurate at the short and intermediate passes that are a modern NFL QB's bread-and-butter.  I saw the same at the combine and at his pro day.  He had a ton of arm strength, but he was not throwing with touch and anticipation and he was not making those throws.  Some say accuracy can not be improved once a guy is at the pro level.   I thought it could, with Ryan Fitzpatrick, and was bitterly proven wrong.  And I said last year of Allen, "gotta hit the Bunnies" - he will live or die as an NFL QB by his ability to master those throws.

 

This year, Josh has clearly made a huge leap.  His completion percentage on those 0-20 yd throws is up something like 20% and he seems to be learning both touch and anticipation.  But we were still leaving too many plays on the field to be the kind of high-scoring offense the game will sometimes demand.  In the Eagles game and the Browns game, he was asked to carry the game on his arm, and he couldn't, quite.  Perhaps, these last few games, he has taken a further step as far as being able to read the field and see the open guys.  So the future looks bright as the sun for him right now.

 

I'm just addressing the "why so negative?" question: in a nutshell, I think everyone recognizes what a tremendous competitor, athlete, and person Josh Allen is.  But we've learnt, as Buffalo fans, from hard experience, that is not necessarily enough.  Stats aside (and some stats should not be too far aside, because they represent a form of success that matters), he's got to be able to dissect the defense and hit enough throws to sustain drives and put points on the board. 

 

9 out of 12 games, he's done it for us this year.  May it continue.  Poe-Birds Next!

 

 

 

[Sundancer]

No worries. The next game when he throws for 150 and has 2 picks, they will all be back. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

8 minutes ago, Sundancer said:

No worries. The next game when he throws for 150 and has 2 picks, they will all be back. 

 

That's unfortunately true, and given the NFL there will be such games.  Heck they will be there if he throws for >300 yds and has 2 picks to go with 3 TDs and we lose.

[JOE IN HAMPTON ROADS]

31 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I slept on this post, Virginian, because I wanted to give it a good and thoughtful answer, and that was just something I couldn't have done last night.  Last night was special, after the win, basking in the sweet sight of Jerrah's tears, the video from the Beasley Mosh Pit (I mean, Visitors locker room), and most important the score board. 

 

Bills Win, Play Gloria! 

 

(I'm from St Louis).

 

Today I'll take a crack at it.  I'm trying to be honest and give you a serious answer here, so please respect that and work with me here - read this through.

 

First of all, and I say this in the most respectful way: fold that "so-called Buffalo fans" thing until it's all corners and stick it somewhere dark and moist.  I've been a Bills fan since the mid-60s watching with my Grandpa and there is nothing, NOTHING, about sad-ass football play, great teams, bad management, eternal hope for success, and monumental disappointment that any other fans can tell me.  Bills fans have had our hearts broken for years.  I am far less skeptical and far less bitter than many, but I recognize my brothers and sisters in those that are skeptical.  We are for reals not "so-called Buffalo fans," we are Buffalo fans.  No parentheses, no quotation marks.

 

Josh Allen.  First, the Amazeballs stuff.  That 4th and 1 was the most unreal play I've ever seen on a pro-football field by an NFL QB, and that's the Real Deal Josh Allen.  Garrett couldn't believe it.  He was looking at the scoreboard like a stunned toddler watching the ice cream truck drive away with his cone still on it.  Tony Romo was in disbelief:  "The quarterback just out-aggressived the entire defensive line!"  And it was clear from watching Allen's college film and from watching last year, that any minute of any game you can see that from him.  You could see it in the Vikes game when he jumped over Anthony Barr.  I think he more or less gave the same explanation: "I really wanted it." 

 

It's that simple.  That's the essential Josh Allen:  "I really wanted it".   Take a guy with a brave heart who really really wants it, and if he's an elite athlete (which Josh plainly is) Good Stuff can happen on any down.

 

Now we come to the more complicated part.  

 

As Buffalo Bills fans, we've lived through the reality of a number of QBs who were good people; dedicated to the team, the city and its fans; even amazing athletes in some regards, and as the QB of the Buffalo Bills just simply couldn't get it done.  With all the dedication and will in the world, they were missing a piece of what's needed.  The most recent example of this would be Ryan Fitzpatrick.  Fierce competitor, great football mind, better athlete than one might think, loved Buffalo, loved the fans, totally dedicated - and just does not have the arm and possibly the football judgement to be an NFL starting QB.  Before that we had 1st round picks EJ Manuel and JP Losman - good people, dedicated to the team, city and fans - and just didn't have the ability to play QB at the NFL level.   There were just different needed pieces that they lacked and could not gain.

 

I don't say this to compare Allen to these guys, but to help understanding of the context.  We as fans have learned that dedication is not enough.

 

Josh Allen.   The reasons I did not want the Bills to draft him still lurk: what I saw when I watched all the Wyo game film I could get my hands on, was a guy who was particularly inaccurate at the short and intermediate passes that are a modern NFL QB's bread-and-butter.  I saw the same at the combine and at his pro day.  He had a ton of arm strength, but he was not throwing with touch and anticipation and he was not making those throws.  Some say accuracy can not be improved once a guy is at the pro level.   I thought it could, with Ryan Fitzpatrick, and was bitterly proven wrong.  And I said last year of Allen, "gotta hit the Bunnies" - he will live or die as an NFL QB by his ability to master those throws.

 

This year, Josh has clearly made a huge leap.  His completion percentage on those 0-20 yd throws is up something like 20% and he seems to be learning both touch and anticipation.  But we were still leaving too many plays on the field to be the kind of high-scoring offense the game will sometimes demand.  In the Eagles game and the Browns game, he was asked to carry the game on his arm, and he couldn't, quite.  Perhaps, these last few games, he has taken a further step as far as being able to read the field and see the open guys.  So the future looks bright as the sun for him right now.

 

I'm just addressing the "why so negative?" question: in a nutshell, I think everyone recognizes what a tremendous competitor, athlete, and person Josh Allen is.  But we've learnt, as Buffalo fans, from hard experience, that is not necessarily enough.  Stats aside (and some stats should not be too far aside, because they represent a form of success that matters), he's got to be able to dissect the defense and hit enough throws to sustain drives and put points on the board. 

 

9 out of 12 games, he's done it for us this year.  May it continue.  Poe-Birds Next!

 

 

 

well written.  I think what bothers us Allenistas is how so many Bills fans gave up on Allen so early.  And continued to call for his replacement even when he showed flashes of brilliance.  Even up to two weeks ago we had people asking for him to be benched.

[Augie]

8 minutes ago, JOE IN HAMPTON ROADS said:

well written.  I think what bothers us Allenistas is how so many Bills fans gave up on Allen so early.  And continued to call for his replacement even when he showed flashes of brilliance.  Even up to two weeks ago we had people asking for him to be benched.

 

I get that a couple decades of frustration can do some damage to a fanbases’ psyche, and our society leans more and more towards instant gratification, but the lack of patience with players like Josh, Edmunds and Oliver borders on irrational at times. It’s very rare for a guy to step in and play at a Pro Bowl level on day one. Give them some time to get up to speed, especially when playing QB in the NFL. It’s a hard thing to do well. 

 

I just want to keep seeing progress, and so far I’m impressed. When we hit the inevitable rough patches, I won’t let it get me too down. 

 

 

.

Edited November 29, 2019 by Augie

[Sundancer]

6 minutes ago, JOE IN HAMPTON ROADS said:

well written.  I think what bothers us Allenistas is how so many Bills fans gave up on Allen so early.  And continued to call for his replacement even when he showed flashes of brilliance.  Even up to two weeks ago we had people asking for him to be benched.

 

I remind posters how people used to call WGR and call for Reich to start. 

 

There was no Internet but there were still idiots. The Internet just turned up the volume.

[dave mcbride]

21 minutes ago, JOE IN HAMPTON ROADS said:

well written.  I think what bothers us Allenistas is how so many Bills fans gave up on Allen so early.  And continued to call for his replacement even when he showed flashes of brilliance.  Even up to two weeks ago we had people asking for him to be benched.

Was anyone here asking that he be benched up to two weeks ago? Maybe a rando johnny come lately poster did; I don’t read every post. But as far as I’ve seen these last few weeks, the number of regular posters asking for this is in the range of zero.

Edited November 29, 2019 by dave mcbride

[Augie]

1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

Was anyone here asking that he be benched up to two weeks ago? Maybe a rando johnny come lately poster did; I don’t read every post. But as far as I’ve seen these last few weeks, the number of regular posters asking for this is in the range of zero.

 

Yep, most  have gone into hiding, but you still get those calls for 300+ yards games. You know.......like Dak had yesterday.   ?

[Franchiseneedsme]

20 hours ago, JOE IN HAMPTON ROADS said:

Some people confuse fantasy football stats with winning football games in the NFL.  

 

JA is awesome.

He is my FF QB. I'm in first place and he is consistently putting up good fantacy #'s. This season is eerily similar to Russel Wilson's first year.. 20-25 point every week and the team wins. 

[JOE IN HAMPTON ROADS]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

Was anyone here asking that he be benched up to two weeks ago? Maybe a rando johnny come lately poster did; I don’t read every post. But as far as I’ve seen these last few weeks, the number of regular posters asking for this is in the range of zero.

yes, during the first half of the Fins game there were calls for Barkley to come off the bench.  I did a whole OP on the gameday thread.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

21 hours ago, JOE IN HAMPTON ROADS said:

Some people confuse fantasy football stats with winning football games in the NFL.  

 

JA is awesome.

 

Allen is actually a great fantasy football QB. I've been riding him all season to a 8-4 record.

 

I think the correct answer to the question is some fans are just dumb or like to stir the pot. Or some have been spooked so badly by the ineptitude from the position the last 20 years that they are convinced beyond doubt that a QB has to THROW for 2TD's per game and average 280 ypg.

[BADOLBILZ]

 

Your post is utterly ridiculous.

 

Some non-Bills fan jackass comes on here and attacks an unbelievably loyal Bills fanbase?

 

We can criticize each other.........we've earned it.

 

You have not.

 

 

[VW82]

"Stats, schmatz."

 

I think this is the heart of it. Yes, we're 9-3. We might like to thank the defense too for that. At some point Josh is going to need to throw for more than 215 yards and score more than 21 points (current season averages) in a big game against a good team. He was able to do that vs. Cowboys -- he was excellent. Is he going to be able to do that in the playoffs? I sure hope so. This is the root of the doubt IMO.  

 

 

[Mrbojanglezs]

3 hours ago, Augie said:

I admit I wanted Darnold pre-draft. BUT, as soon as Josh was drafted he was “OUR GUY”. I’m behind our guys, and I was cautiously hopeful. Then cautiously optimistic. Now I’m fully optimistic and I just want to keep seeing general progress, and he’s certainly done that to date. This was posted elsewhere, but it worth repeating because it says it all: 

 

 

Josh Allen Stats@JoshAllenStats

Today was Josh Allen's 24th NFL game:

First 8: 52.88 cmp%, 1223 yards, 9 total TD (pass/rush), 7 INT

Next 8: 56.54%, 1754 yards, 15 total TD, 11 INT

Last 8 (since NE game this year):
62.1%, 1688 yards, 18 total TD, 2 INT

You want growth, you got it.

 

 

P.S. - I’m re-watching the game and I have to wonder why it’s OK to hit Josh Allen when he slides. That is ALWAYS a penalty when we do it! 

 

 

 

I almost think it's safer not to slide. 

[gobills1212]

Its odd that this post comes when the kids approval rating is the highest... anyone ive heard and everything ive read have been the most positive things ever! Maybe even overboard (if there is such a thing) as most national pundits have decide to write articles eating crow. You obviously feel strongly enough about this to write this post... but what are you reading?! Whatever it is, stop - bc its garbage and not indicitive of how the fan base at large and now most of the nation feels...

[Augie]

37 minutes ago, gobills1212 said:

Its odd that this post comes when the kids approval rating is the highest... anyone ive heard and everything ive read have been the most positive things ever! Maybe even overboard (if there is such a thing) as most national pundits have decide to write articles eating crow. You obviously feel strongly enough about this to write this post... but what are you reading?! Whatever it is, stop - bc its garbage and not indicitive of how the fan base at large and now most of the nation feels...

 

It seems he’s hoping for some “I told you so points”, wrongly. There are haters hiding in the weeds, but the sentiment is generally fair at this point, IMO. 

[gobills1212]

42 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

It seems he’s hoping for some “I told you so points”, wrongly. There are haters hiding in the weeds, but the sentiment is generally fair at this point, IMO. 

I agree...its just....odd. Like whoever it is here that decided to spend their Thanksgiving on the Jets board gloating about how good we are and Allen was.. act like youve been there before. It was silly and frankly rather embarrassing to our fan base lol

[Hapless Bills Fan]

14 minutes ago, gobills1212 said:

I agree...its just....odd. Like whoever it is here that decided to spend their Thanksgiving on the Jets board gloating about how good we are and Allen was.. act like youve been there before. It was silly and frankly rather embarrassing to our fan base lol

 

Srsly, someone from this board gloating on the Jets board?  How can you tell?  Never mind, I doan wanna know.  We have another game from them, whoever you are - "don't woof and lose"

 

In this instance, The Virginian has been here since the 2018 draft as a Wyoming fan and typically doesn't say too much unless it's interesting.

 

I think it's probably mostly "can you guys get it straight and support Josh now?" mixed with some frustration at watching a player he clearly loves get regularly hated on here...sometimes for reasons that really aren't too valid - like lack of 300 yd games or 30+ yd passes or failure to play like Russ Wilson does now...

 

...forgetting or not being aware that in his first 2 years in the league, Wilson averaged 195 and 210 ypg, respectively (though I believe he may have had a couple 300 yard passing games during his 2nd season) - the point is, he wasn't winning any passing shootouts at that time.

 

 

[Gugny]

6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Srsly, someone from this board gloating on the Jets board?  How can you tell?  Never mind, I doan wanna know.  We have another game from them, whoever you are - "don't woof and lose"

 

In this instance, The Virginian has been here since the 2018 draft as a Wyoming fan and typically doesn't say too much unless it's interesting.

 

I think it's probably mostly "can you guys get it straight and support Josh now?" mixed with some frustration at watching a player he clearly loves get regularly hated on here...sometimes for reasons that really aren't too valid - like lack of 300 yd games or 30+ yd passes or failure to play like Russ Wilson does now...

 

...forgetting or not being aware that in his first 2 years in the league, Wilson averaged 195 and 210 ypg, respectively (though I believe he may have had a couple 300 yard passing games during his 2nd season) - the point is, he wasn't winning any passing shootouts at that time.

 

 

 

Wilson did have two 300 yard games in his second season.  He also had four games in which he threw for under 200 ... his TEAM went 3-1 in those games.

 

[BigDingus]

I could go into great detail what I don't like about his game, but as I've said all year I'll keep my mouth shut once we beat a team with a winning record, and when he plays well for a full 4 quarters just once.

He played well for a full 4 quarters against the Dolphins in game 2, and now he beat the Cowboys on the road in prime time. That's proof of development, which is all I wanted to see. So for the time being, no need to crap on the parade, rather just be proud of the team & hope for the best next week.