Buh-bye Arena League

[Mark Vader]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea it has had a good run. At one point it was pretty big too wasn't it in terms of number of teams etc? 

I never got into it myself, but living in San Jose, I know there were lots of San Jose Sabre Cats fans. And they won a few championships.

 

I remember the Arizona Rattlers were a big team too.

[Kirby Jackson]

23 minutes ago, loyal2dagame said:

You didn't lay that out.  Maybe it'll still work out.

I don't see that crazy old bastard failing twice. 

I hope it does. He’s stubborn though. He was a VP in the NBA, NHL and in the SEC for years. For a variety of reasons he moved on from those places. He’s a super smart dude and knows a lot of people. He just worries too much about his title and power. The reality is, it doesn’t matter if some calls you “intern” if they are going to pay you $150k. He always looks for both power and money.  That’s how you end up in the arena league instead of the NBA. My advice has been to sacrifice some authority for stability.

 

That advice holds true too for anyone that wants to break into sports. It’s hard to go from the minor leagues to the big leagues. I’d recommend getting your foot in the door anyway you can with one of the 120 or so pro teams (MSL isn’t bad either). Go in and grind and you’ll have a chance to move up.

Edited November 27, 2019 by Kirby Jackson

[PetermansRedemption]

1 hour ago, whatdrought said:

 

Hard to justify investing in a farm system when the NCAA is gonna do it for them for free...

The NFL could probably do it profitably though. Make it an official NFL route. A true alternative for 5 star recruits. Come into the NFLs sanctioned farm system get endorsement money and a salary and still enter the NFL draft. Other than the NFL, no one will be able to compete because, like you said, the NCAA is the NFL’s farm system. And the NCAA can enjoy what amounts to slave labor, never paying their talent. Hard for anyone to compete with that. 

[whatdrought]

Just now, PetermansRedemption said:

The NFL could probably do it profitably though. Make it an official NFL route. A true alternative for 5 star recruits. Come into the NFLs sanctioned farm system get endorsement money and a salary and still enter the NFL draft. Other than the NFL, no one will be able to compete because, like you said, the NCAA is the NFL’s farm system. And the NCAA can enjoy what amounts to slave labor, never paying their talent. Hard for anyone to compete with that. 

 

It would lead to a lot of players going right from HS to the pros, which would lead to a lot of scrutiny about the undermining of Colleges. I think that would be a bad look. Not sure how MLB does it though...

[Kirby Jackson]

1 minute ago, whatdrought said:

 

It would lead to a lot of players going right from HS to the pros, which would lead to a lot of scrutiny about the undermining of Colleges. I think that would be a bad look. Not sure how MLB does it though...

 

3 minutes ago, PetermansRedemption said:

The NFL could probably do it profitably though. Make it an official NFL route. A true alternative for 5 star recruits. Come into the NFLs sanctioned farm system get endorsement money and a salary and still enter the NFL draft. Other than the NFL, no one will be able to compete because, like you said, the NCAA is the NFL’s farm system. And the NCAA can enjoy what amounts to slave labor, never paying their talent. Hard for anyone to compete with that. 

As soon as this happened the NCAA would further loosen their rules. A minor league will never compete with the NCAA in football. No one grows up dreaming of playing for the Orlando Predators. These kids, especially in the south, grow up dreaming of playing at Alabama, LSU and Florida. That’s even above the NFL in a lot of cases. It just won’t work. 

[JoPoy88]

Holy **** I thought the AFL folded 15 years ago.

[PetermansRedemption]

4 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

 

It would lead to a lot of players going right from HS to the pros, which would lead to a lot of scrutiny about the undermining of Colleges. I think that would be a bad look. Not sure how MLB does it though...

I mean, I think most people know college is a sham for true NFL talent anyways. They get a free college education that they don’t want or need. Thinking people know that if people like Antonio Brown can go through college that it’s not a true education. 

1 minute ago, Kirby Jackson said:

 

As soon as this happened the NCAA would further loosen their rules. A minor league will never compete with the NCAA in football. No one grows up dreaming of playing for the Orlando Predators. These kids, especially in the south, grow up dreaming of playing at Alabama, LSU and Florida. That’s even above the NFL in a lot of cases. It just won’t work. 

I’m not from the south, so I can’t speak from experience. But I can’t imagine anyone with any intelligence would choose to play for free in college over absolutely any salary at all from a sanctioned NFL system. Then again, these aren’t intelligent people we are talking about in most cases. 

[whatdrought]

1 minute ago, PetermansRedemption said:

I mean, I think most people know college is a sham for true NFL talent anyways. They get a free college education that they don’t want or need. Thinking people know that if people like Antonio Brown can go through college that it’s not a true education. 

 

It's very true. Unfortunately, many people don't care to address such things logically. The NFL has to look like they're not doing anything to prevent the future success of these guys, so if they create a non-school alternative (not that a farm system has to be that) that's going to be some push back, at least initially. That being said, I personally think it would be better all around as I've seen first hand how athletics can completely saturate a school and ruin the academic side of things, and this at the 2 year college level. 

[ghostwriter]

XFL take note.

[Kirby Jackson]

3 minutes ago, PetermansRedemption said:

I mean, I think most people know college is a sham for true NFL talent anyways. They get a free college education that they don’t want or need. Thinking people know that if people like Antonio Brown can go through college that it’s not a true education. 

I’m not from the south, so I can’t speak from experience. But I can’t imagine anyone with any intelligence would choose to play for free in college over absolutely any salary at all from a sanctioned NFL system. Then again, these aren’t intelligent people we are talking about in most cases. 

It won’t be free. That’s my point. The NCAA has already changed the rules on name, image and likeness. The NFL can’t spend like these universities for a high school kid. If you are Chase Young coming out of high school, in a free market, you’ll make WAY more at OSU than in the minors. The boosters will be giving you $5M deals to advertise cars. The NFL just isn’t going to throw equivalent money at guys because the minor league can never generate the revenue of the NCAA. It’s a broken plan. That’s why every league has failed (and that’s before the NCAA allowed guys to earn). It has no chance

[loyal2dagame]

21 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

He always looks for both power and money. 

Then he will fail.  Compromise is a huge thing when it comes to as position of power/ authority.  I know a little about a lot,  but i do know this. Get in where you fit in and run with it. 

Edited November 27, 2019 by loyal2dagame

[Kirby Jackson]

3 minutes ago, loyal2dagame said:

Then he will fail.  Compromise is a huge thing when it comes to as position of power/ authority.  I know a little about a lot,  but i do know this. Get in where you fit in and run with it. 

That’s what I try to tell him!! He could go run a sales department tomorrow and have a nice life. He may not have all the power and decision making but will have a lot. Don’t worry about having your hand in everything; worry about stabilizing. That’s part of the reason that all of these Gypsies in sports bounce around so much. At this point he’s worked for something like 8 teams/schools. That’s not for me

[DefenseWins]

1 hour ago, Virgil said:

The NFL needs to step in and make some form of supplement league.  Between the XFL, CFL, and other startups, there’s clearly a demand for it, but they can’t compete.   
 

With the amount of college players, who’ve ever else out there, they should be some form of league that can run in the spring, where the best players can transition to teams for training camp. 
 

If I knew the Bills had a minor league type team that they share with other teams, I would watch that 

 

Frankly, I don't see any or your points mentioned here. Why does the NFL "need to step in and make some form of supplement league"? It would seem to be all too obvious that they don't. Going all the way back to the days of the USFL these leagues have all failed - every one of them. I don't see the XFL doing any better to be honest. Alot of fans currently transition from the NFL to the NHL and NBA in the late winter to early spring when MLB comes into play. I don't see any need for another semi-pro football league. I haven't even mentioned so called fringe sports like MLS, minor league baseball, Nascar, the Pro Golf Tour, MMA, and Professional Wrestling just to name a few. Do you remember World Team Tennis? So who exactly is out there to support another sports league? Didn't we just see the AAF go under as well?

 

Honestly, I think that sports is and has been oversaturated with these failed ventures.

[billsfan_34]

1 hour ago, Virgil said:

The NFL needs to step in and make some form of supplement league.  Between the XFL, CFL, and other startups, there’s clearly a demand for it, but they can’t compete.   
 

With the amount of college players, who’ve ever else out there, they should be some form of league that can run in the spring, where the best players can transition to teams for training camp. 
 

If I knew the Bills had a minor league type team that they share with other teams, I would watch that 

They did that in Europe and it allowed development. It was probably the best of all the spin off leagues we have seen.

[GunnerBill]

50 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I hope it does. He’s stubborn though. He was a VP in the NBA, NHL and in the SEC for years. For a variety of reasons he moved on from those places. He’s a super smart dude and knows a lot of people. He just worries too much about his title and power. The reality is, it doesn’t matter if some calls you “intern” if they are going to pay you $150k. He always looks for both power and money.  That’s how you end up in the arena league instead of the NBA. My advice has been to sacrifice some authority for stability.

 

That advice holds true too for anyone that wants to break into sports. It’s hard to go from the minor leagues to the big leagues. I’d recommend getting your foot in the door anyway you can with one of the 120 or so pro teams (MSL isn’t bad either). Go in and grind and you’ll have a chance to move up.

 

I get where he is coming from though. I mean neither of my careers has been sport but both in media and in government I have tended to put influence above stability and pay. It probably didn't work out in media (although I had a fantastic 2 years along the way) but it has in government. Depends on the kind of personality you are I think. 

[Beast]

1 hour ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

Doesn't matter what McMahon allows.  The XFL is a deadman walking.

 

Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.  I'm going to enjoy the ***** out of watching him fail...again.

And he still will have accomplished so much more than you ever will.

[Kirby Jackson]

44 minutes ago, billsfan_34 said:

They did that in Europe and it allowed development. It was probably the best of all the spin off leagues we have seen.

I think that resurrecting this is potentially viable because they don’t have the same competition. They could play it in the spring/summer and not compete with too many other options. I’d probably try to do it primarily in England as the NFL has already planted its roots. Maybe something like 4 teams there and 4 scattered throughout Europe?
 

It will never compete with college or anything but would be a good growth engine for the NFL. That’s basically what the NBA did with the dream team. They globalized the game. Football will never gain that level of traction but internationally is the best growth option. It makes some sense. It makes way more sense than another US minor league.

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, DefenseWins said:

 

Frankly, I don't see any or your points mentioned here. Why does the NFL "need to step in and make some form of supplement league"? It would seem to be all too obvious that they don't. Going all the way back to the days of the USFL these leagues have all failed - every one of them. I don't see the XFL doing any better to be honest. Alot of fans currently transition from the NFL to the NHL and NBA in the late winter to early spring when MLB comes into play. I don't see any need for another semi-pro football league. I haven't even mentioned so called fringe sports like MLS, minor league baseball, Nascar, the Pro Golf Tour, MMA, and Professional Wrestling just to name a few. Do you remember World Team Tennis? So who exactly is out there to support another sports league? Didn't we just see the AAF go under as well?

 

Honestly, I think that sports is and has been oversaturated with these failed ventures.

 

Really the USFL failed thanks to one certain stabile genius owner who wanted to force the NFLs hand. Half the USFL teams drew good crowds and ratings on ABC and ESPN were decent. Had they stayed the course they might still be around today, maybe eventually partnering with the NFL as a feeder system. 

 

Frankly I have doubts the NFL will be around in 20 years. Young people aren't playing the sport and fewer are becoming fans. That combined with concern over CTE makes the chances for a rival league slim to none.

[billsfan_34]

16 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I think that resurrecting this is potentially viable because they don’t have the same competition. They could play it in the spring/summer and not compete with too many other options. I’d probably try to do it primarily in England as the NFL has already planted its roots. Maybe something like 4 teams there and 4 scattered throughout Europe?
 

It will never compete with college or anything but would be a good growth engine for the NFL. That’s basically what the NBA did with the dream team. They globalized the game. Football will never gain that level of traction but internationally is the best growth option. It makes some sense. It makes way more sense than another US minor league.

I agree- it would work with 4 teams in England, 1 in Ireland, 1 in Scotland and a couple in France and Germany for a total of 8. There is definitely little competition now and would be great for marketing/development. Fred Jackson did ok ?

[ProcessTruster]

yikes.  who cares.