Shaq over Murphy, Right?

[Irv]

Shaq gets two sacks completely unblocked on both.  Now we're ready to pay him Pro Bowl money?  Jeezz

[Kirby Jackson]

29 minutes ago, Sunshower said:

Realistically, what does a Shaq Lawson contract look like?

 

1 minute ago, Irv said:

Shaq gets two sacks completely unblocked on both.  Now we're ready to pay him Pro Bowl money?  Jeezz

I think it looks a lot like the contract Murphy signed last year. He got 3 years and $22.5M with $10.375M guaranteed. Shaq may get a little more than that with the cap always rising. I’m thinking like 3 years, $24M, $12M guaranteed. 

[LSHMEAB]

13 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Lawson, to me, is the exact type of guy that the Patriots have. He’s a guy that is scheme versatile and rarely makes mistakes. He’s really good against the run and gets a little pressure. He can slide inside in a pinch. He the sort of “unsung” role player that good teams have. I kind of feel the same way about our guards. Just solid football players

But the Pats don't pay this kind of player 10 plus mil per, and it wouldn't shock me if Lawson got that kind of deal, especially if he gets close to 10 sacks. Some team is going to believe he's on the "cusp" of breaking out. That won't happen with his skillset. He's a nice player to have. I think we all agree on that. He's not a player a team should allocate a great deal of resources to attain. The Pats generally find guys "like" Lawson off the scrapheap. We'll see what happens with Lawson and the contract, but I don't think he's gonna be available for 5-7 mil per and that's his value. 

 

 

[Kirby Jackson]

37 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

But the Pats don't pay this kind of player 10 plus mil per, and it wouldn't shock me if Lawson got that kind of deal, especially if he gets close to 10 sacks. Some team is going to believe he's on the "cusp" of breaking out. That won't happen with his skillset. He's a nice player to have. I think we all agree on that. He's not a player a team should allocate a great deal of resources to attain. The Pats generally find guys "like" Lawson off the scrapheap. We'll see what happens with Lawson and the contract, but I don't think he's gonna be available for 5-7 mil per and that's his value. 

 

 

I had him at $8M. I can’t see him signing for less than Murphy did 2 years ago. Cut Murphy and save $7.2M in cap space and hand it to Shaq. It feels like a pretty easy solution. Sign or draft a big time pass rusher too. That gives you FA/Hughes/Shaq/Darryl Johnson (or whomever). That’s an upgrade to where we are today. 

Edited November 27, 2019 by Kirby Jackson

[LSHMEAB]

1 minute ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I had him at $8M. I can’t see him signing for less than Murphy did 2 years ago. Cut Murphy and save $7.2M in cap space and hand it to Shaq. It feels like a pretty easy solution. Sign or draft a pick time pass rusher too. That gives you FA/Hughes/Shaq/Darryl Johnson (or whomever). That’s an upgrade to where we are today. 

Yeah. That's where contracts can become strangely personal. You know full well Lawson ain't taking less than what Murphy was paid. The issue there is that Murphy's contract was awful for the Bills, so it's not a good barometer from the team's perspective.

 

 

[Kirby Jackson]

12 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

Yeah. That's where contracts can become strangely personal. You know full well Lawson ain't taking less than what Murphy was paid. The issue there is that Murphy's contract was awful for the Bills, so it's not a good barometer from the team's perspective.

 

 

Yeah, it was a gamble which is why they gave themselves this out. They should take it. Murphy just isn’t good. He doesn’t rush the passer and he’s a total liability vs. the run. I’m disappointed in him. When they got him I expected like an 8 sack guy that was solid all-around. Ironically, that’s kind of the player that Shaq actually is. 
 

Re-signing him raises the floor for the Bills. The worst case scenario would be Hughes/Shaq/Johnson/Yarborough (or whatever). That’s no worse than what we have right now. I think that they are going to chase a pass rusher though. Ideally they’d love Clowney but realistically think it’s a tier down or Yeter Gross-Mattos in the draft. 

[DrDawkinstein]

Lot of good posts and info in this thread.

 

Agreed that, if I had to pick one out of the two, it's Shaq all day.

 

Fine with cutting Murphy and giving that money to Shaq. We only carry 4 DEs as it is, so then only need to add 1 or 2 more and let them all battle through camp. I heavent paid enough attention to Johnson this year to have an opinion either way. Will have to start keeping an eye out for #92.

 

Hughes has a $9.5M price tag next year if kept on the roster. But if he is cut, he costs us $10.85M in dead money. So no way does he get cut next year.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

20 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

That implies he was dogging it previously and likely will do so after new con tract, no?

 

I’m not implying anything other than he has career record season totals in sacks and stuffs in a contract year. 

 

Maybe it’s completely coincidental?  ?‍♂️ 

[VaMilBill]

I haven’t noticed Murphy doing good or bad things all season. Just seems to be a contributing player (although not living up to his contract). 
 Has Murphy really been as bad as some people mention on here? 
 

I will caveat that with the fact Shaq has performed better than Murphy all year

[Mr. WEO]

5 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

I’m not implying anything other than he has career record season totals in sacks and stuffs in a contract year. 

 

Maybe it’s completely coincidental?  ?‍♂️ 

 
if the light switch finally went on in his 4th year, that’s better than never i guess. 
 

if because it’s a contract year,  he decided to play better than he has, he won’t play this way again after he gets paid

[John from Riverside]

I want to know what happened to Daryl Johnson.....at the beginning of the year and through training camp I honestly thought he was going to make Shaq and Murphy BOTH mute points

 

 

[Sundancer]

2 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Hughes has a $9.5M price tag next year if kept on the roster. But if he is cut, he costs us $10.85M in dead money. So no way does he get cut next year.

 

Same with Star, though he's probably around for 2 years given his contract. 

[LSHMEAB]

7 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Yeah, it was a gamble which is why they gave themselves this out. They should take it. Murphy just isn’t good. He doesn’t rush the passer and he’s a total liability vs. the run. I’m disappointed in him. When they got him I expected like an 8 sack guy that was solid all-around. Ironically, that’s kind of the player that Shaq actually is. 
 

Re-signing him raises the floor for the Bills. The worst case scenario would be Hughes/Shaq/Johnson/Yarborough (or whatever). That’s no worse than what we have right now. I think that they are going to chase a pass rusher though. Ideally they’d love Clowney but realistically think it’s a tier down or Yeter Gross-Mattos in the draft. 

No doubt my man. I like Shaq and at 8 mil, meh, I just don't know. He's a "solid" player.

 

There's no doubt in my mind that the defense is still a stud pass rusher away. Beane was in the hunt for Clowney and Frank so I believe he sees this as well. 

 

Why not Clowney? We've got the cash. We don't generally fare well in signing big name FA "weapons." I say we swing for the fences on pass rusher in the off season. 

 

And Murphy is trash. Just a bad signing, but it is what it is. I don't consider him anything going forward. Just a guy they have to figure out cap wise what to do. I did notice him once this season on a Fitz run in the first Miami game where his head was on a swivel as one of the least mobile QB's in the NFL ran right on by. Total waste of space.

 

Pass rusher. I think WR is the way to go in the draft and big time pass rusher is the way to go in FA'cy. People act like Mario Williams was a terrible signing. He wasn't. The fact that we didn't win and the fact that he fell off a cliff don't change the reality that he had a significant impact on the D for a few seasons. 

Edited November 28, 2019 by LSHMEAB

[Kirby Jackson]

3 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

No doubt my man. I like Shaq and at 8 mil, meh, I just don't know. He's a "solid" player.

 

There's no doubt in my mind that the defense is still a stud pass rusher away. Beane was in the hunt for Clowney and Frank so I believe he sees this as well. 

 

Why not Clowney? We've got the cash. We don't generally fare well in signing big name FA "weapons." I say we swing for the fences on pass rusher in the off season. 

 

And Murphy is trash. Just a bad signing, but it is what it is. I don't consider him anything going forward. Just a guy they have to figure out cap wise what to do. I did notice him once this season on a Fitz run in the first Miami game where his head was on a swivel as one of the least mobile QB's in the NFL ran right on by. Total waste of space.

 

Pass rusher. I think WR is the way to go in the draft and big time pass rusher is the way to go in FA'cy. People act like Mario Williams was a terrible signing. He wasn't. The fact that we didn't win and the fact that he fell off a cliff don't change the reality that he had a significant impact on the D for a few seasons. 

I tend to agree on all counts. The draft is LOADED at WR. You’ll get a great player there.

 

I just don’t think Clowney leaves Seattle. I think we will chase him. I’m advocating Shaq AND an elite pass rusher. They have plenty of money and still have years before paying Allen. 
 

I’d sign Clowney, Shaq, Spain, extend Tre, extend Poyer, extend Milano, cut Murphy, cut Kroft, draft WR I think that team will be really good. They can do all of those things IMO. 

[LSHMEAB]

3 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I tend to agree on all counts. The draft is LOADED at WR. You’ll get a great player there.

 

I just don’t think Clowney leaves Seattle. I think we will chase him. I’m advocating Shaq AND an elite pass rusher. They have plenty of money and still have years before paying Allen. 
 

I’d sign Clowney, Shaq, Spain, extend Tre, extend Poyer, extend Milano, cut Murphy, cut Kroft, draft WR I think that team will be really good. They can do all of those things IMO. 

I'm with you 100 percent. The cap is really not an issue right now and I tend to think people overplay the significance. The top teams just find a way to sign the must have players and let a few not so serious walk.

 

We've had a REALLY easy schedule as it pertains to QB's and I think that leads people to believe there are no defensive needs. Not true IMO. With a stud pass rusher, you don't go such lengths without a TO nor do you allow Mayfield that final TD drive. These stud guys just make things happen themselves or draw so much attention that others can go to town. There isn't THAT guy on this roster. The defense is extremely solid but they're not "dominant" and that comes with that elusive player we're speaking about. You think SF lets Baker march down the field the way he did? I don't. Allocate all other resources to offense for all I care, but HUNT the best pass rusher available.

[Shooter McGavin]

8 hours ago, Sunshower said:

Realistically, what does a Shaq Lawson contract look like?

I’m not sure, but Trent Murphy’s next contract is looking like a 1 year deal for a few baseball cards, a sack of marbles....Petey

[Dopey]

5 hours ago, Sundancer said:

 

Same with Star, though he's probably around for 2 years given his contract. 

And maybe cuz he's playing well. Top 3 overall d so far this year and star being the only constant among dt the last 2 years. Kyle retired, Harrison injured, Peko, a rook in Oliver and the other Phillips coming on. The year before star got here pro-football.com had us as the 29th ranked rush d. Since his arrival, 16th,14th and top 3 overall d this year. Again, he's the only constant dt the last 2 years. There's a lot of dts making more and their d isn't as good as ours. People somehow miss he's the rock of our d front.

[Thurman#1]

On 11/27/2019 at 7:05 AM, Dkollidas said:

Especially after this season, the way both have played, I assume they’ll try to re-sign Shaq, as long as he wants to be here, and cut ties with Murphy.

 

Shaq will basically take Murphy’s salary position on the team. 

 

Draft a DE in the 1st or 2nd round, and sign a lower priced UFA (Vic Beasley?).

 

Hughes/Draft-Pick

Lawson/UFA

 

seems like a much better way to have the defensive ends going forward. 

 

 

It'll depend on what Shaq can get. He might easily want more than we would be willing to give. Murphy is doing a decent job, but not living up to his contract. Best guess is he's probably gone. They can save $5.95 mill by cutting him.

 

Yeah, a low- to mid-priced UFA or even two and maybe a draft pick or two seems a very likely guess.

 

 

Edited November 28, 2019 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

12 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

Yeah. That's where contracts can become strangely personal. You know full well Lawson ain't taking less than what Murphy was paid. The issue there is that Murphy's contract was awful for the Bills, so it's not a good barometer from the team's perspective.

 

 

 

Me, I doubt it will have anything at all to do with Murphy's contract, and everything to do with Lawson's perceived market value.

 

5 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

No doubt my man. I like Shaq and at 8 mil, meh, I just don't know. He's a "solid" player.

 

There's no doubt in my mind that the defense is still a stud pass rusher away. Beane was in the hunt for Clowney and Frank so I believe he sees this as well. 

 

Why not Clowney? We've got the cash. We don't generally fare well in signing big name FA "weapons." I say we swing for the fences on pass rusher in the off season. 

 

And Murphy is trash. Just a bad signing, but it is what it is. I don't consider him anything going forward. Just a guy they have to figure out cap wise what to do. I did notice him once this season on a Fitz run in the first Miami game where his head was on a swivel as one of the least mobile QB's in the NFL ran right on by. Total waste of space.

 

Pass rusher. I think WR is the way to go in the draft and big time pass rusher is the way to go in FA'cy. People act like Mario Williams was a terrible signing. He wasn't. The fact that we didn't win and the fact that he fell off a cliff don't change the reality that he had a significant impact on the D for a few seasons. 

 

 

 

"We've got the cash" is a terrible argument, in pretty much any financial question. The guy who makes decisions based on whether or not he has the cash ... soon won't.

 

And it's not how they run this team. Thank goodness. This is a fiscally conservative group, which is how the best teams operate.

 

They're going to try to make sure they have the cash every year, by husbanding and using it carefully and conservatively. Look at how the Panthers work.

 

 

 

And as for "the top teams," that do end up "signing the big name FA 'weapons'" for rushing the passer? How many of the teams that are consistently competitive (which is our FO's stated goal)  have done that? The Pats? Ravens? Steelers? Pack? Saints? Seahawks? How many have gotten their best pass rushers by paying out the nose for him in FA? Any of them?

 

Not the Seahawks. They traded for Clowney and got him for cheap for one year. They might then re-sign him, if he fits, but they didn't give him the huge contract without having had him on the roster.

Edited November 28, 2019 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

On 11/27/2019 at 7:12 AM, Niagara Dude said:

Murphy is one of worst signing in Beane era next to Star who combined rake in about 20million,  gas them both and use money on Shaq and another free agent.  Those two get destroyed on running plays

 

 

Star has done well, he's been a good pickup, consistently doing what he was signed for, eating double-teams and creating lanes for the LBs to run to the ball.

 

Murphy has been OK, but was signed with the hopes that he'd get maybe 7 or 8 sacks a year. He hasn't lived up to that. He's been decent, but he's not really living up to his contract.