Shaq over Murphy, Right?

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

I disagree.  Allowing for improvement over years (Lawson has been around for 4 years now, underperforming), if I'm a GM and I think a player is turning it on to cash in, then I would be right to suspect he will turn it down after cashing in. 

 

In fact, by saying that they turn up their game explicitly says they made a decision to play harder than if it was not a contract year.  Don't want that guy.

 

Players get better with experience. That's part of the development process. And that's what happened with him, as it does a lot of players. I don't know how you can deny the reality that exists in all sports, businesses and every field of endeavor that when you have an incentive that it does factor into one's performance. 

 

You may not want Lawson but I certainly do. And I'm confident that HC also wants to retain him. 

 

[BuffaloHokie13]

We should probably get Connor McGovern's opinion. 

[GunnerBill]

27 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I don’t see any reason to keep Trent. You can save $7.2M by releasing him. That feels like a no-brainer. He’s a bad player. You can get equal or better production for half the price. Regardless of the cap space they already have there is zero reason for Trent Murphy to be on this team in 2020. The same goes for Kroft and Spencer Long imo (there is another $9Mish in those 2).

 

With you on Murphy and with you on Kroft. As discussed the other day I disagree on Long. Having olinemen who can come off the bench and hardly miss a beat is a luxury in this league. The Bills seem to have that at the moment and they have an impending gap if Spain walks. I agree $4m is a lot for a backup, if in fact he is still a backup next year, but look around the NFL there are teams who are sunk when an OL goes down. The Bills were down two starters on Sunday and rushed for nearly 250 yards against a top 10 defense. 

22 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Without question players do turn up their game when a contract is coming up. That happens in all sports. Getting better with experience and having a financial incentive to get better for the next contract are not mutually exclusive. 

 

Melvin Ingram is the classic example. Injured and underperforming until contract renewal came into view. Suddenly became a difference maker. People said the Chargers should be wary about extending him but I don't think they have regretted the decision to do so for a moment. 

[Kirby Jackson]

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

With you on Murphy and with you on Kroft. As discussed the other day I disagree on Long. Having olinemen who can come off the bench and hardly miss a beat is a luxury in this league. The Bills seem to have that at the moment and they have an impending gap if Spain walks. I agree $4m is a lot for a backup, if in fact he is still a backup next year, but look around the NFL there are teams who are sunk when an OL goes down. The Bills were down two starters on Sunday and rushed for nearly 250 yards against a top 10 defense. 

I’d certainly have Long above the other 2. I’m a touch indifferent on him coming back. Kroft and Murphy feel like pretty easy decisions.

[JohnC]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

 

 

Melvin Ingram is the classic example. Injured and underperforming until contract renewal came into view. Suddenly became a difference maker. People said the Chargers should be wary about extending him but I don't think they have regretted the decision to do so for a moment. 

You are astute and perspicacious.?

[Mr. WEO]

12 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Players get better with experience. That's part of the development process. And that's what happened with him, as it does a lot of players. I don't know how you can deny the reality that exists in all sports, businesses and every field of endeavor that when you have an incentive that it does factor into one's performance. 

 

You may not want Lawson but I certainly do. And I'm confident that HC also wants to retain him. 

 

 

I've acknowledged this twice now.

 

Lawson was a first round draft pick.  From Clemson.

 

Murphy was bought in specifically to start ahead of the underperforming Lawson.  If Lawson could control his performance to the point that it may affect his asking price, then I would argue he could have played this well last year too. He's not some UDFA or 6th rounder blossoming not a solid starter just as his contract is up.

 

The way to maximize your value is to do it consistently, not as your rookie contract (and no 5th year option) is up.  And as several others have pointed out, he's decent.  But I don't see the Bills paying a lot to keep him after a single decent year.

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I’d certainly have Long above the other 2. I’m a touch indifferent on him coming back. Kroft and Murphy feel like pretty easy decisions.

If you are going to over-pay for a player doing so for a versatile offensive lineman is worth the extra cost. The season is a long and grinding season where backups do unexpectedly get to play.

 

[Mr. WEO]

17 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

We should probably get Connor McGovern's opinion. 

 

 

But would it be as overwhelmingly glowing and doubt arresting as Von Miller's "he played well"?

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Kirby Jackson said:

I’d certainly have Long above the other 2. I’m a touch indifferent on him coming back. Kroft and Murphy feel like pretty easy decisions.

 

Agree on the other two. And I was pro signing Kroft but his skillset is very similar to Knox. Big guy, uses his body well in the middle of the field, good run blocker on the edge and sneaky athletic. Knox overtook him because Kroft was injured and Knox has a higher ceiling. So while in an ideal world I think the Bills would have had Kroft as the starter this year and slowly introduced Knox the fact is the process was speeded up and as a result Kroft is surplus to requirements.

[Big Turk]

2 hours ago, Niagara Dude said:

Murphy is one of worst signing in Beane era next to Star who combined rake in about 20million,  gas them both and use money on Shaq and another free agent.  Those two get destroyed on running plays

 

It gets old seeing people complaining about Star when the dude has done exactly what he has been asked to do on one of the best defenses in the NFL. Suffice to say they are happy with what he has done and they actually know what he is supposed to be doing.

[JohnC]

3 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

I've acknowledged this twice now.

 

Lawson was a first round draft pick.  From Clemson.

 

Murphy was bought in specifically to start ahead of the underperforming Lawson.  If Lawson could control his performance to the point that it may affect his asking price, then I would argue he could have played this well last year too. He's not some UDFA or 6th rounder blossoming not a solid starter just as his contract is up.

 

The way to maximize your value is to do it consistently, not as your rookie contract (and no 5th year option) is up.  And as several others have pointed out, he's decent.  But I don't see the Bills paying a lot to keep him after a single decent year.

The Bills and the rest of the league don't consider Lawson to be an elite lineman. I'm certainly not suggesting that. So he won't get paid as if he is. That is not to say that he isn't a solid player and won't get paid in the category of what a good and solid defensive end makes. 

[LSHMEAB]

How about neither? Of course I'd take Shaq over Murphy, but Shaq is going to get overpaid. He's still an average pass rusher despite the occasional outburst.

 

I think they should cut Murphy, let Shaq get overpaid, and prioritize a PREMIERE pass rusher in FA'cy. 

1 hour ago, DC Tom said:

 

Shaq's been solid, if unspectacular, all season.  He's reminding me of Phil Hansen - the sort of player that'll never be an All-Pro, but that you can rely on to consistently do the job.  A good team needs a lot of players like that. 

Tend to agree with the comparison, but Jerry Hughes is declining and he was never Bruce Smith to begin with. Gotta get a stud DE on the other side of a Phil Hansen.

 

Just look at the investment SF has made in pass rushers. How's that working out?

[Ray Finkel]

Murphy is invisible.  Shaq is picking up steam!

[ColoradoBills]

58 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I don’t see any reason to keep Trent. You can save $7.2M by releasing him. That feels like a no-brainer. He’s a bad player. You can get equal or better production for half the price. Regardless of the cap space they already have there is zero reason for Trent Murphy to be on this team in 2020. The same goes for Kroft and Spencer Long imo (there is another $9Mish in those 2).

 

20 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I’d certainly have Long above the other 2. I’m a touch indifferent on him coming back. Kroft and Murphy feel like pretty easy decisions.

 

I feel there is zero chance that Long doesn't at least go to camp.  His contract just about guarantees that.

Kroft goes to camp if they let Lee Smith go but I can't see them dumping both.

Murphy seems like a dead man walking especially if they can re-sign Lawson to a reasonable contract.

[Don Otreply]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I don’t see any reason to keep Trent. You can save $7.2M by releasing him. That feels like a no-brainer. He’s a bad player. You can get equal or better production for half the price. Regardless of the cap space they already have there is zero reason for Trent Murphy to be on this team in 2020. The same goes for Kroft and Spencer Long imo (there is another $9Mish in those 2).

Long pulled his weight when he came in when Morse went out and feliciano took over center duties, ya gotta have depth on your O line and he has been good depth, not sayin he’s a star player, but useful depth. 

[Kirby Jackson]

11 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

Long pulled his weight when he came in when Morse went out and feliciano took over center duties, ya gotta have depth on your O line and he has been good depth, not sayin he’s a star player, but useful depth. 

I’m not totally opposed to him. I’d rather invest the savings in Spain but they have plenty of money. At the same time you are going to be paying Felciano less than Long. You can find quality depth if you trust your scouts. I’m indifferent on Long. He’s been okay and he’s versatile. Is he better than Bates? I don’t know. He could be the depth guy. I am fine with it either way.

[BarleyNY]

3 hours ago, Dkollidas said:

Especially after this season, the way both have played, I assume they’ll try to re-sign Shaq, as long as he wants to be here, and cut ties with Murphy.

 

Shaq will basically take Murphy’s salary position on the team. 

 

Draft a DE in the 1st or 2nd round, and sign a lower priced UFA (Vic Beasley?).

 

Hughes/Draft-Pick

Lawson/UFA

 

seems like a much better way to have the defensive ends going forward. 

 
I like having a player like Shaq on the team, but I’m not excited if he’s my starter going into the season.  I’d offer him a solid deal for a 3rd DE.  He can see what else is out there and if he gets a great offer, then good for him.  If not, maybe he stays here and is happy with his role.  We should start those talks before the season ends. 
 

We don’t need to make a decision about Murphy nearly that soon. We have cap space so we can wait until cut downs if needed.  Waiting will give the Bills a chance to find an opportunity to upgrade via free agency and/or the draft before making their decision.  The Shaq situation will also be settled and they can see what they’ve got in camp.  It’s worth keeping Murphy around until cut downs if only as insurance against injury.  Or who knows, maybe it is just taking him longer to recover from his injury than expected.  In any event there’s need to rush. 

[Formerly Allan in MD]

Uh, yes except Lawson is an unrestricted free agent.  Beane may well regret not picking up his option.

[NewEra]

2 hours ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

This is correct, but I wouldn't be shocked if Hughes was cut (if no paycut)

They extended him this season.  He’s not taking a pay cut 

[Don Otreply]

25 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I’m not totally opposed to him. I’d rather invest the savings in Spain but they have plenty of money. At the same time you are going to be paying Felciano less than Long. You can find quality depth if you trust your scouts. I’m indifferent on Long. He’s been okay and he’s versatile. Is he better than Bates? I don’t know. He could be the depth guy. I am fine with it either way.

I hear you, I would like to know if Bates can be a part of the O line rotation, what little i’ve Seen/heard of his play he’s done well, I’m thinking they are trying to groom him a bit more before he sees more action, or not, but they have done pretty well upgrading the O line, although being better than last seasons group was not hard to do...  not dissing this years group.