The curious case of Jared Goff...

[Big Turk]

Goff looks like a QB that is about to flame out after a good first two years under McVay.

 

In the article they basically say Goff can only succeed with high end talent around him and a very good OLine and that he struggles when he doesn't have this.

 

Rams might need to move on from Goff but they are kind of stuck with him after giving him a big contract extension...

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/jared-goff-regression-heres-exactly-whats-gone-wrong-for-rams-and-their-highly-paid-quarterback/amp/

[Don Otreply]

Sounds like the plight of 90% of nfl QBs what’s new in that?

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

3 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

In the article they basically say Goff can only succeed with high end talent around him and a very good OLine and that he struggles when he doesn't have this.

Goff, and most every other QB...?  

 

Good thing Josh and Lamar have some wheels to help when things don’t go as planned.

Edited November 26, 2019 by Ridgewaycynic2013

[Big Turk]

Just now, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

Goff, and most every other QB...?  

 

Not really...elite QBs make everyone around them better. Goff needs elite players around him to be better. Huge difference.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

All QBs are better when they have a good supporting cast and coaching. Even so called "elite" QBs -nothing to see here. And he seems like a JAG QB. Nothing special.

Edited November 26, 2019 by D. L. Hot-Flamethrower

[quinnearlysghost88]

5 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

 

Not really...elite QBs make everyone around them better. Goff needs elite players around him to be better. Huge difference.

Tell that to Brady who's enjoying wide open WRs and  clean pockets for the last two decades. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

15 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

Goff looks like a QB that is about to flame out after a good first two years under McVay.

 

In the article they basically say Goff can only succeed with high end talent around him and a very good OLine and that he struggles when he doesn't have this.

 

Rams might need to move on from Goff but they are kind of stuck with him after giving him a big contract extension...

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/jared-goff-regression-heres-exactly-whats-gone-wrong-for-rams-and-their-highly-paid-quarterback/amp/

 

There are very very few QB who don't need talent and a very good OL, including the one we're about to face.

 

12 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

Not really...elite QBs make everyone around them better. Goff needs elite players around him to be better. Huge difference.

 

That's the truism, but by that definition there are very very few "elite" QB.

 

1 minute ago, quinnearlysghost88 said:

Tell that to Brady who's enjoying wide open WRs and  clean pockets for the last two decades. 

 

Not to mention Gronk and a succession of very talented guys who can catch in traffic and generate YAC over the middle (Welker, Amendola, Edelman etc)

[whatdrought]

Goff doesn’t seem mentally tough to me. Just what I see.

[MAJBobby]

17 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

Goff looks like a QB that is about to flame out after a good first two years under McVay.

 

In the article they basically say Goff can only succeed with high end talent around him and a very good OLine and that he struggles when he doesn't have this.

 

Rams might need to move on from Goff but they are kind of stuck with him after giving him a big contract extension...

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/jared-goff-regression-heres-exactly-whats-gone-wrong-for-rams-and-their-highly-paid-quarterback/amp/

 

Maybe he should stop partying  focus on football

 

https://terezowens.com/is-rams-quarterback-jared-goff-partying-too-hard-in-los-angeles/

Edited November 26, 2019 by MAJBobby

[mjt328]

Jared Goff may someday be a great study on the "Do's and Don't's" for developing a young Quarterback.

 

By all the accounts that I've read, Goff was brought along on training wheels the first 2 years under Sean McVay.  At some point, McVay should have backed-off and let Goff sink or swim by himself (especially before the team handed him a huge contract extension).  But he didn't, defenses have now adjusted, and they are stuck with a QB who seemingly never learned how to truly play the position.

 

Based on the comments Brian Daboll has made, I think he understands this when it comes to Josh Allen.  There is a thin line between teaching a player, and actually doing his job for him.  Someday it comes back to bite you.

 

 

[Fan in Chicago]

2 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

Sounds like the plight of 90% of nfl QBs what’s new in that?

90% is an exaggeration. There are elite QBs who make their surrounding cast better and then there are others who are products of a system+ the players in it. Then there are those that are terrible despite good coaches and players. Goff appears to be trending towards that last group. But that group is decidedly < 90% of starting QBs in the NFL.

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

There are very very few QB who don't need talent and a very good OL, including the one we're about to face.

 

I would argue that Prescott is a function of a stud OL, good RB and couple of good receiving options. I dont think he can do well with one of those pieces missing. 

Edited November 26, 2019 by Fan in Chicago

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

I think with a horrible O-Line and no talent on offense that it is hard to blame any QB. I think it is impossible to evaluate a rookie QB with a bad O-Line and no talent. 

 

I would need to watch game film and see if Goff is hitting WR in stride and making the correct reads. 

 

If WR’s can’t get open and the O-Line is only giving Goff 2.5 sec to pass then very little blame should fall on Goff. In the end watching game film will tell you everything you need to know. 

Edited November 26, 2019 by Call_Of_Ktulu

[wettlaufer]

21 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

 

Not really...elite QBs make everyone around them better. Goff needs elite players around him to be better. Huge difference.

I think this means pretty well every quarterback in the league, starter or backup, is incredibly competent under perfect conditions. They would not be in the NFL if that were not true. But remove some of the perfection of the conditions and most of those QBs look ordinary.

[Big Turk]

1 minute ago, wettlaufer said:

I think this means pretty well every quarterback in the league, starter or backup, is incredibly competent under perfect conditions. They would not be in the NFL if that were not true. But remove some of the perfection of the conditions and most of those QBs look ordinary.

 

That's the point...look at the QB's that can perform well without a perfect cast...Russell Wilson is the first QB that comes to mind...he never has truly had elite skill position players around him. Baldwin and Lynch were good players but the OLine and other positions were never anything but average or worse.

[mannc]

Well, at least they will be in a position to draft a QB in one of the next two drafts...oh, wait...

 

Not working out too well for the two teams that thought it was a good idea to trade two first round picks for a defensive player.  Arrogance is a killer in the NFL.  

[Dablitzkrieg]

14 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

Maybe he should stop partying  focus on football

 

https://terezowens.com/is-rams-quarterback-jared-goff-partying-too-hard-in-los-angeles/

I think this is the issue.  He got paid and is out of his mind right now

[Big Turk]

3 minutes ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

I think this is the issue.  He got paid and is out of his mind right now

 

If this is the case, then that would explain a lot. So happy Allen is football centric

Edited November 26, 2019 by matter2003

[corta765]

With Goff the problems come down to two big things and one not as big thing:

 

1. Offensive line. Look at how much better any QB does if the offensive line can give him time. Part of the reason Allen has developed so well and Darnold has been stagnant this year comes down to what each has in front of them. I am a big believer that a great offensive line can make a below average QB competent etc.. and for young QBs a bad offensive line can create awful habits that are very hard to remove. I do not want to undersell how much this matters.

 

2. This was reported on last year but Goff in the 12 games leading up to the Lions game in 2018 was moving at a high clip of 3800 yds 27 TDs 6 INTs 66% completion percentage. Since then in 14 games he has thrown for 3500 yards but 60% completion rating with 14 TDs and 15 INTs. The Lions only rush 4 and played a man coverage that took away the quick easy reads. The Lions did the same against Mahomes this year which he credited as being tough and the same to Brady when they beat NE last year. Other teams copied that big time and Goff has not responded very well to it. It is something he may be able to overcome... but with an offensive line that is well offensive he does not have the time to process other reads forcing bad decisions or dead plays. Goff does not have the mobility recent draft picks Allen, Jackson, Mayfield, Mahomes, or even Wentz to a lesser extent do who can make something out of nothing if things break down.

 

3. Not as important of a point BUT Goff benefits tremendously from having McVay tell him what looks a defense is giving and where to attack before the 15 second black window comes in. Defense's have picked up on this and started disguising schemes or not showing them until that blackout window comes into view. Again probably something that can be coached out to improve, but it is very noticeable how much teams have caught onto to some of the things the Rams do.

 

In general I think the Rams are a classic case of everything kind of breaking all at once. Gurley is not the same as he was in years prior, the offensive line is bad, Goff is having issues reading coverage's as defenses have found new effective wrinkles, McVay has not been able to adjust his offense to these new schemes to the extent he has in the past, and they have been missing some big names like Cooks and Woods to help out. I won't completely penalize Goff for having issues with the injuries that offense has faced to key skill guys. Just about any QB has seen regression when your top targets are out. I don't think Goff at any point has been a Top 5 QB, but I do think he has certainly been effective enough to be near top 10. 

 

Next offseason and year will be critical though for the Rams and Goff. Thanks to all the draft picks the Rams have traded they are going to have to hope they can find some value free agents and get lucky in the draft. They need everyone healthy and McVay needs to evolve his scheme a bit. I think Goff certainly has a good chance for a long future, but there are some real warning signs and things he has to improve at.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said:

90% is an exaggeration. There are elite QBs who make their surrounding cast better and then there are others who are products of a system+ the players in it. Then there are those that are terrible despite good coaches and players. Goff appears to be trending towards that last group. But that group is decidedly < 90% of starting QBs in the NFL.

 

I'm not sure how to parse this.  The last group (terrible despite good coaches etc) is <90% of starting QBs?  The QB who need a surrounding cast are <90%?

 

2 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said:

I would argue that Prescott is a function of a stud OL, good RB and couple of good receiving options. I dont think he can do well without one of those pieces missing. 

 

In fact, I think Dak's track record in his 4 years kind of rises and falls with the quality of his OL, run game, and receivers.

 

I think two things are a bit being conflated here.  There are QB who elevate the quality of their surrounding pieces.  Ryan Fitzpatrick is one of them.  But he's not elite, he's just got charisma that draws players to him and makes them want to elevate their play for him, and enough talent to reward them when they do.

 

Then there are QBs who have truly elite skill levels.  Some of them are also guys who inspire the guys around them and get them to "play up".  But even those guys can't express their skills to the fullest extent without those pieces around them.

 

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

There was a year Brett Farve lost almost his whole O-line to injury’s. I can’t remember the year but they still had some good talent at RB,WR and TE. Farve couldn’t do anything that year offensively because he had less than 2 seconds to pass the football.