purple haze Posted November 24, 2019 Posted November 24, 2019 14 hours ago, fansince88 said: I dont have a first white friend. I dont have a first Black friend. I dont have a first Chineese friend. I have multiple friends. The human race is just that. A complete race of people. I get the accomplishment of the first in the sport but not the first in the position. It reads in the OP post as if being a black QB is some great feat and their quality in the sport cant be compared to that of a white QB. I have racist companions that think a black man cant be a quality qb and have had some pretty heated arguments against that mentality. That is my point. We do not live in a world (for the most part) where race is considered when being put on the field ?. America was built on a system of white supremacy. So you truly believe that race Is not a consideration in sports? It was widely suggested that Lamar Jackson play WR before LAST YEAR'S draft. Kaepernick got blackballed for being the ringleader and face of a protest against systemic racial issues, which have roots in white supremacy. It's good that you have a diverse group of friends. However, most applications we fill out in this country asks for a person's ethnicity; but we're all humans and Americans, right? It matters in this country and do not make the mistake of thinking history is so far in the past. History always has a hand in the present sometimes for better, but often-times for worse.
Doc Brown Posted November 24, 2019 Posted November 24, 2019 That list has to be top five black quarterbacks of historical significance and it seems not a lot of thought was put into it as it was on the spot. For retired black QB's I'd go Moon, McNabb, Cunningham, McNair, and Vick in that order. In fifteen years the list might read like Mahomes, Wilson, Moon, Jackson, and McNabb in that order. Apologies to Newton, Culpepper, and Watson. 1
Solomon Grundy Posted November 24, 2019 Posted November 24, 2019 (edited) 10 hours ago, LSHMEAB said: You make a strong point there chief. Trent Dilfer is also better than Dan Marino, amirite? Let me ask you this, was Dilfer SB MVP like Williams was? I’m guessing you’re a Jeff Blake fan, family member or agent but better than Doug Williams? Come on man!! Edited November 24, 2019 by the skycap 1
Solomon Grundy Posted November 24, 2019 Posted November 24, 2019 6 hours ago, NewEra said: Meanwhile, Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer asked Dan Marino and Jim Kelly where their SB rings were Russell Wilson is number 1 on my list Brad Johnson nor Trent Dilfer were the reasons their respective teams won SB. Doug Williams was and his MVP trophy proved it. 1
NewEra Posted November 24, 2019 Posted November 24, 2019 2 hours ago, the skycap said: Brad Johnson nor Trent Dilfer were the reasons their respective teams won SB. Doug Williams was and his MVP trophy proved it. The broncos scored 10 points. Yet Doug Williams is “the reason” the Redskins won. Ok. Williams played a tremendous quarter. The best quarter in SB history. Williams wasn’t the only reason they won 42-10, which is what is implied (imo) when you say johnson not dilfer were “the reasons” they won. 1
billsfan1959 Posted November 24, 2019 Posted November 24, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, purple haze said: ?. America was built on a system of white supremacy. So you truly believe that race Is not a consideration in sports? It was widely suggested that Lamar Jackson play WR before LAST YEAR'S draft. Kaepernick got blackballed for being the ringleader and face of a protest against systemic racial issues, which have roots in white supremacy. It's good that you have a diverse group of friends. However, most applications we fill out in this country asks for a person's ethnicity; but we're all humans and Americans, right? It matters in this country and do not make the mistake of thinking history is so far in the past. History always has a hand in the present sometimes for better, but often-times for worse. Colin Kaepernick became a circus for any team that employed him. Quite honestly, he wasn't good enough to offset the circus that came with him, and he didn't seem to have any interest in actually concentrating on what he was being paid to do: play football. I don't recall any other football player taking a knee during the anthem or being vocal about racial injustice that has a hard time staying employed by the NFL. It was not "widely" suggested that Lamar Jackson play wide receiver. It was a suggestion by some - and it was not based on his race. It was based on his athleticism and questions regarding his potential as a "passing" QB (Were you as offended when there were suggestions by some that Tim Tebow should play tight end?). There weren't calls for Colin Kaepernick, Russell Wilson, Cam Newton, Dak Precott, Deshaun Watson, Patrick Mahomes, etc. to become wide receivers. You are right, history is not too far in the past. However, if views and perceptions by most Americans were still the same as they were not all that long ago - none of those men would be playing in the NFL. @fansince88wasn't suggesting their aren't racial issues in this country or that they haven't played a role in virtually every aspect of society. He was simply saying it is not nearly as pervasive as it was. We are human beings that, by nature are imperfect (and will never reach perfection) and there are still plenty of examples around us of racism, sexism, etc., etc.; however, we have, and are continuing to, evolve as a society. Things have gotten better and will continue to get better. To quote Victor Hugo, "...we recognize one thing: that the human race has been badly manhandled, but that it has moved forward.” Edited November 24, 2019 by billsfan1959 1
Luka Posted November 24, 2019 Posted November 24, 2019 Moon McNabb McNair Vick Williams Culpepper and Cunningham with Williams is kind of a toss up at 5. I'll give the Super Bowl MVP the benefit of the doubt. 36 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: (Were you as offended when there were suggestions by some that Tim Tebow should play tight end?). Yes, yes I was.
Needle Posted November 24, 2019 Posted November 24, 2019 Willie Beamen is right up there with the best
Kirby Jackson Posted November 24, 2019 Posted November 24, 2019 (edited) 43 minutes ago, Luka said: Moon McNabb McNair Vick Williams Culpepper and Cunningham with Williams is kind of a toss up at 5. I'll give the Super Bowl MVP the benefit of the doubt. Yes, yes I was. No mention of Russell Wilson?!? He should have 2 Super Bowls (run the ball Pete!!) and likely will have an MVP after this year. If Wilson wins 1 more game he will be the 1st QB in the 100 year history of the NFL to have a winning record in each of his first 8 seasons. Edited November 24, 2019 by Kirby Jackson
Call_Of_Ktulu Posted November 24, 2019 Posted November 24, 2019 I’m still waiting for the list of best QB’s that are German Canadian French Spanish Greek Indian Yellow Blue Green Tan Red
Albwan Posted November 24, 2019 Posted November 24, 2019 WOW peoples head would explode and liberals would be picketing espn offices is they ever had a "Top 5 white qb" thing. ESPN is despicable garbage.
purple haze Posted November 24, 2019 Posted November 24, 2019 2 hours ago, billsfan1959 said: Colin Kaepernick became a circus for any team that employed him. Quite honestly, he wasn't good enough to offset the circus that came with him, and he didn't seem to have any interest in actually concentrating on what he was being paid to do: play football. I don't recall any other football player taking a knee during the anthem or being vocal about racial injustice that has a hard time staying employed by the NFL. It was not "widely" suggested that Lamar Jackson play wide receiver. It was a suggestion by some - and it was not based on his race. It was based on his athleticism and questions regarding his potential as a "passing" QB (Were you as offended when there were suggestions by some that Tim Tebow should play tight end?). There weren't calls for Colin Kaepernick, Russell Wilson, Cam Newton, Dak Precott, Deshaun Watson, Patrick Mahomes, etc. to become wide receivers. You are right, history is not too far in the past. However, if views and perceptions by most Americans were still the same as they were not all that long ago - none of those men would be playing in the NFL. @fansince88wasn't suggesting their aren't racial issues in this country or that they haven't played a role in virtually every aspect of society. He was simply saying it is not nearly as pervasive as it was. We are human beings that, by nature are imperfect (and will never reach perfection) and there are still plenty of examples around us of racism, sexism, etc., etc.; however, we have, and are continuing to, evolve as a society. Things have gotten better and will continue to get better. To quote Victor Hugo, "...we recognize one thing: that the human race has been badly manhandled, but that it has moved forward.” I understand your points. Jackson to WR is the latest example of the position switch idea. And I would say it was more than some. I'm talking not just NFL people, but many among the numerous draft pundit websites. Yes, due to his athleticism and unique abilities. But those traits weren't considered applicable to the "standard" model of the traditional white QB. Warren Moon had to go to the CFL. He was "standard" size, a pocket QB. Tebow was a great college QB, but not as dynamic as Jackson In any way. There's no comparison between the two. Kaepernick is a QB. He will automatically take on more significance by virtue of being in that position, as well as being the first player to protest in the way that he did. The circus aspect, is true. However, from my eye, that circus, in large part, is based on willful misinformation about why he was protesting. Misinformation that really was a cover for people who weren't comfortable with or outright don't care about what his protest was highlighting; which takes me back to my first point about the foundation America was built upon. There has been a great deal of progress in general. There is a lot still to be made.
fansince88 Posted November 24, 2019 Posted November 24, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, billsfan1959 said: Colin Kaepernick became a circus for any team that employed him. Quite honestly, he wasn't good enough to offset the circus that came with him, and he didn't seem to have any interest in actually concentrating on what he was being paid to do: play football. I don't recall any other football player taking a knee during the anthem or being vocal about racial injustice that has a hard time staying employed by the NFL. It was not "widely" suggested that Lamar Jackson play wide receiver. It was a suggestion by some - and it was not based on his race. It was based on his athleticism and questions regarding his potential as a "passing" QB (Were you as offended when there were suggestions by some that Tim Tebow should play tight end?). There weren't calls for Colin Kaepernick, Russell Wilson, Cam Newton, Dak Precott, Deshaun Watson, Patrick Mahomes, etc. to become wide receivers. You are right, history is not too far in the past. However, if views and perceptions by most Americans were still the same as they were not all that long ago - none of those men would be playing in the NFL. @fansince88wasn't suggesting their aren't racial issues in this country or that they haven't played a role in virtually every aspect of society. He was simply saying it is not nearly as pervasive as it was. We are human beings that, by nature are imperfect (and will never reach perfection) and there are still plenty of examples around us of racism, sexism, etc., etc.; however, we have, and are continuing to, evolve as a society. Things have gotten better and will continue to get better. To quote Victor Hugo, "...we recognize one thing: that the human race has been badly manhandled, but that it has moved forward.” Thanks for noticing my point. I was done defending myself but thanks. Edited November 24, 2019 by fansince88 1
TH3 Posted November 24, 2019 Posted November 24, 2019 On 11/23/2019 at 10:40 AM, Gugny said: I'm surprised it's 2019 and we're still making separate lists for black athletes/people. Pathetic. Be strong....hang in there!! 1
Real McClappy Posted November 24, 2019 Posted November 24, 2019 (edited) This list is really Broken. Cunningham Moon McNabb Wilson Edited November 24, 2019 by Real McCoy
Nelius Posted November 24, 2019 Posted November 24, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, Albwan said: WOW peoples head would explode and liberals would be picketing espn offices is they ever had a "Top 5 white qb" thing. ESPN is despicable garbage. This was so low profile that people still don't even know what the actual question/conversation was. Calm down. A random poster recapped something he thought he heard and you're ready to fight a liberal lol. Edited November 24, 2019 by Nelius 1
Agent 91 Posted November 24, 2019 Posted November 24, 2019 (edited) On 11/23/2019 at 1:47 AM, NC Book said: How about the top 10 white rbs? Would Tim Tindale crack that list? Lol Thomas Jervey CAREY BENDER Edited November 24, 2019 by Agent 91
John Gianelli Posted November 24, 2019 Author Posted November 24, 2019 5 hours ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said: I’m still waiting for the list of best QB’s that are German Canadian French Spanish Greek Indian Yellow Blue Green Tan Red Call the Freddie Coleman show when he asks for your 15-second comments and see what he says.
SoTier Posted November 24, 2019 Posted November 24, 2019 On 11/23/2019 at 11:23 AM, Gugny said: I just don't find it necessary to segregate when ranking anything. Rank the best QBs, period. I realize the position has historically been dominated by white men; just like the CB and WR positions have historically been dominated by black men. Why don't we see a "Best White WRs of All Time," list? Optics. That's why. It's not just sports. Forbes made a list titled, "The Black Billionaires 2019." Again ... I get it. It wasn't that long ago that MLK marched and was subsequently assassinated. But these kinds of lists, regardless of their intention, do nothing but perpetuate segregation. I just think it's dumb. That's because you're white and the color of your skin has never been a defining aspect of your life because you have always been in the majority -- unless you're some sick racist asshat who hates anybody and everybody who doesn't look like you -- which I don't think you are based on your postings on TSW. Many times we whites think some blacks are overly sensitive and "want to make everything about race" but we aren't reminded almost daily that we are white so we take race for granted. Although racism isn't usually as blatant as it was a few decades ago, it's unfortunately alive and well in some places because old ideas and old habits die hard. Contrary to your claim that these lists "perpetuate segregation", they actually provide hope and inspiration for black people who may be struggling just to make it day to day as well as a reminder to whites of blacks' historical and current achievements despite racist stereotypes that exist. It's no different from women celebrating the historic and current achievements of other women, although doing that makes a certain segment of the male population uncomfortable, too.
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