Drew Rosenhaus

[plenzmd1]

Dam, for those of you who are fans of Kornheiser, this what he always called David Falk, refering to the way he could orchestrate trades and really control the destinies of teams. Look at the Skins. He now represents both Santana Moss and Sean Taylor, and both are under contract. He is having both of them sit out OTAs and minicamps as both want a new deal. Friggin Taylor is just in his second year for crying out loud. Doing the same with TO, this is just nuts. All this after the rumor is he is guaranteeing guys new deals if they sign with him. I know as a team, I might shy away from drafting any player that has him as their agent.

 

BTW, Arrington just blasting away at the Skins this morning in the Post. I gotta feeling this guy is not long for the Skins. Maybe hes the player we get if Nate were to be traded to Skins.

[d_wag]

I know as a team, I might shy away from drafting any player that has him as their agent.

302271[/snapback]

 

easier said then done - i believe i read recently he now has the highest client base in the sport.......

 

anyone who thinks willis will play out his entire current contract is a fool.......

[Mark VI]

Agents ruin the sport, without question. There are some good ones who are reasonable and work well with GM's. Then there is Rosenhaus, the Poston Bros. and many more who have huge ego's and zero integrity. Gimmie,gimmie gimmie. The long term health of the sport means nothing. "Salary cap be damned, my guy deserves a massive chunk of change and the rest of your roster is not my concern . "

 

That's why the Bills would be wise to draft another RB this year. If Willis has a 1500 yard season in 2005, watch Rosenhaus tell TD he wishes to redo his contract.

 

Most players are dumber than dirt, so they just follow the sychophant agents advice.

[bluv]

As a fan I hate agents who over value there players and fill there heads up. But on the flipside I have to side with the players, even though I'd hate it if a Bill's player held out. I mean the salries aren't guaranteed and all the power is with the teams. I mean the tragic event that happened in Arena football can happen in the NFL as well as you are basically putting your BODY AND LIFE ON THE LINE. This game doesn't reward you for the job you have done but for what you can do so if I was a player why would I wait and just play the game with the mindset that I will be rewarded by the team when we have all saw so many times how teams don't show loyalty and reward their players. That is why Nate Clemens would have been a fool to sign cheap before his contract year unless he wants to remain a Bill no matter what. I guess some would say be loyal to your team and you should be rewarded. Ask Troy Brown what loyalty gets you? A great example: Andre Reed. Plays his heart out for us then gets hurt in a contract year. Doesn't get paid, comes back and still bust his butt on the field and then is cut when he is up for another payday. Some would say they get millions to play the game; most do. But look at what the league makes and the players are the driving force. All I can say is the next time we think about criticizing a player for asking for a better deal picture yourself in his shoes and then ask yourself would you be loyal to a crooked organization (like the NFL) who you know fromthe past history is known for shady business.

[Bill from NYC]

Agents ruin the sport, without question. There are some good ones who are reasonable and work well with GM's. Then there is Rosenhaus, the Poston Bros. and many more who have huge ego's and zero integrity. Gimmie,gimmie gimmie. The long term health of the sport means nothing. "Salary cap be damned, my guy deserves a massive chunk of change and the rest of your roster is not my concern . "

 

That's why the Bills would be wise to draft another RB this year. If Willis has a 1500 yard season in 2005, watch Rosenhaus tell TD he wishes to redo his contract.

 

Most players are dumber than dirt, so they just follow the sychophant agents advice.

302278[/snapback]

 

This is a great topic. Years ago, I read a book by former agent Mike Trope called "Necessary Roughness." He was around in the days of Howard Slusher, and when Lee Steinberg was cutting his teeth. He represented Lawrence Taylor, Chuck Muncie and countless other stars.

 

Trope points out that while agents get the blame, ultimately it is the player who is responsible for ridiculous demands. For example, T.O. signed one of, if not the largest contracts of all time for a wide receiver. He was certainly not coerced, and is by no means dumb.

Now, he wants a new deal with another huge bonus, and he is bad mouthing his quarterback for "getting tired" in the superbowl. Is this the fault of Rosenhaus? Is T.O. being duped?

 

As football fans, we cheer players, not agents, so it is much easier to lay the blame at the feet of a guy like Rosenhaus than MaGahee, should he demand a new contract. Imo, the players are at least as guilty when it comes to not honoring a contract.

Many of them have been pampered since their teens. They have been showered with gifts from boosters, and had other students take their college exams for them. We have seen one of our own players go broke and need a new contract. I have a hard time blaming his agent.

 

In summary, I view agents as an easy villian. We can cheer our favorite players and blame those greedy, rotten agents when things go bad, but in reality, it is at least a two-way street.

Jmo.

[Mark VI]

As a fan I hate agents who over value there players and fill there heads up. But on the flipside I have to side with the players, even though I'd hate it if a Bill's player held out. I mean the salries aren't guaranteed and all the power is with the teams. I mean the tragic event that happened in Arena football can happen in the NFL as well as you are basically putting your BODY AND LIFE ON THE LINE. This game doesn't reward you for the job you have done but for what you can do so if I was a player why would I wait and just play the game with the mindset that I will be rewarded by the team when we have all saw so many times how teams don't show loyalty and reward their players. That is why Nate Clemens would have been a fool to sign cheap before his contract year unless he wants to remain a Bill no matter what. I guess some would say be loyal to your team and you should be rewarded. Ask Troy Brown what loyalty gets you? A great example: Andre Reed. Plays his heart out for us then gets hurt in a contract year. Doesn't get paid, comes back and still bust his butt on the field and then is cut when he is up for another payday. Some would say they get millions to play the game; most do. But look at what the league makes and the players are the driving force. All I can say is the next time we think about criticizing a player for asking for a better deal picture yourself in his shoes and then ask yourself would you be loyal to a crooked organization (like the NFL) who you know fromthe past history is known for shady business.

302291[/snapback]

 

 

I agree with your point but you're forgetting a key component of your formula. The fan.

 

If the players all deserve more money, then the cost IS passed on to the fan in the form of higher ticket prices. Ticket prices and the DirecTV NFL ticket will skyrocket. At one time, the owners of sports did have it all there way,no question. Now, the players are making insane $$ and I don't really give a damn whether they have to go out and get a regular job, once their career ends at a young age. Welcome to the real world.

 

The salary cap is the reason Buffalo still has a team. If Rosenhuas wants all his clients to make multi millions, then he better form his own football League and assume the risk/debt.

[plenzmd1]

Trope points out that while agents get the blame, ultimately it is the player who is responsible for ridiculous demands. For example, T.O. signed one of, if not the largest contracts of all time for a wide receiver. He was certainly not coerced, and is by no means dumb.

  Is this the fault of Rosenhaus? Is T.O. being duped?

 

As football fans, we cheer players, not agents, so it is much easier to lay the blame a

In summary, I view agents as an easy villian. We can cheer our favorite players and blame those greedy, rotten agents when things go bad, but in reality, it is at least a two-way street.

Jmo.

302293[/snapback]

In some respects it is the player, but that is not what"appears" to be happening with Rosenhaus. With both TO and Taylor, he was brought in after contracts were signed by the players being represented by other agents. In Taylors case, the guy is just a nut job, and while I do not remeber all the specifics, he didn't sign an agent until right before training camp, then fired that guy a week later, hired a new one, fired him a week later and went back to his original representation. He then proceeds to sign a contract and within a few weeks hears form ole Drew what a chit deal he signed, hire him and he can get it reworked. Sounds similiar to me as to what TO is doing now.

 

I understand your point about how the team can cut a player anytime they wish. However, that is why these guys get the signing bonus. What I'm saying is the street runs both ways. Once that player has the bonus, who to say he has to stay in shape. Whos to say he cant retire, ala Ricky and Deion. What if after getting that big payday, his internal drive and motivation are gone. TOs crying now about how he will probably never see the second big chunk of bonus money cause the Eagles have a history of not paying guys over 30. Um , news flash, that has been their modus operandi since Reed got there.

 

 

Like you said, these guys are not dumb. They understand their contarct is only worth the bonus, plus the first three years MAX. They signed the deal, live with it. And while the flip side to that argument is the team can then cut him if his production fades or they asked him for a pay cut, the player does not have to accept. Get cut and take your chances on the open market.

 

 

Finally, how will teams start to deal with this guy if he continues down this path. I think astute teams are planning their cap strategies at least two, more likely three to four years in advance. How can you do that if you know every time one of his clients has break out or great year, more money is going to have to be shelled out.

[UConn James]

I'm one who doesn't assume that people are stupid, especially when it comes to salary, tho I do volunteer that many people are mememememe rather than seeing the big picture. We live insulated lives in that regard.

 

What would be nice in theory is if every NFL, NHL, MLB hotshot had to work as a convenience store clerk for a few years like Kurt Warner did (his head got filled back up pretty quickly tho). Or get a real job based on what they can do other than throw catch or kick an air-filled ball. Might change their tune really fast.

[bluv]

I'm one who doesn't assume that people are stupid, especially when it comes to salary, tho I do volunteer that many people are mememememe rather than seeing the big picture. We live insulated lives in that regard.

 

What would be nice in theory is if every NFL, NHL, MLB hotshot had to work as a convenience store clerk for a few years like Kurt Warner did (his head got filled back up pretty quickly tho). Or get a real job based on what they can do other than throw catch or kick an air-filled ball. Might change their tune really fast.

302320[/snapback]

 

Or vice-versa: assume you were a a hot prospect or better yet a proven NFL star player and there was all this opportunity to be had. Would you just settle for less and just play the game? It is easy to say sure and it would be easy if the game was just played on Sunday. Then after you have endured all that goes into playing the game, you go out and perform at a high level; wouldn't you want to be paid what you are worth or equal fair market value? Then to top that off, if or once you get hurt or have an off year, people develop amnesia and forget what all that you had done the past years you have been with the team.

 

What if, at your REAL job your boss came to you and said that you know what I think you are doing a fine, as a matter of fact a great job, top of the line work. Even though you could have went to a competitor that paid much more you stuck with us being a loyal employee thru our tough times. But now that we are on our feet, to be truthful, I feel I can hire this other guy to do your job for a little cheaper and since we do have authority I have to do what's best for the company. Now even though you have put everything you have had in this company and stuck thru the hard times, I will have to cut you and I'm sure you will find work somewhere else; have a great life! Then next year after they get on their feet they hire another guy in your same position o an absurd contract paying twice the amount you were getting paid all because he was a few years younger and had potential. How would you feel?

[justnzane]

Dam, for those of you who are fans of Kornheiser, this what he always called David Falk, refering to the way he could orchestrate trades and really control the destinies of teams. Look at the Skins. He now represents both Santana Moss and Sean Taylor, and both are under contract. He is having both of them sit out OTAs and minicamps as both want a new deal. Friggin Taylor is just in his second year for crying out loud. Doing the same with TO, this is just nuts. All this after the rumor is he is guaranteeing guys new deals if they sign with him. I know as a team, I might shy away from drafting any player that has him as their agent.

 

BTW, Arrington just blasting away at the Skins this morning in the Post.  I gotta feeling this guy is not long for the Skins. Maybe hes the player we get if Nate were to be traded to Skins.

302271[/snapback]

 

 

Sean Taylor is a second year player. That is absurd to be skippin both of those camps. That is like a young worker out of college, refusing overtime or the company paying for your masters. Remember if it were not for Rosenhaus pridelessly promoting MacGahee, we might have been able to take him in the 2nd or 3rd round.

[John from Riverside]

easier said then done - i believe i read recently he now has the highest client base in the sport.......

 

anyone who thinks willis will play out his entire current contract is a fool.......

302275[/snapback]

 

One thing have been meaning to ask......

 

If a player actually plays to their potential.....are they WORTH the chedder? I have no problem paying Willis is he becomes the focal point of our offense.....

[IDBillzFan]

Most players are dumber than dirt, so they just follow the sychophant agents advice.

302278[/snapback]

And in many cases, following the advice of their agents actually MAKES them dumber than dirt.

[Puhonix]

Here's a radical idea: instead of a player having a great season, then sitting out for more money, what if a player has a terrible season, and the GM benches him until he gets a new contract for less.... just an interesting scenario, and a fun twist on things.

[d_wag]

One thing have been meaning to ask......

 

If a player actually plays to their potential.....are they WORTH the chedder?  I have no problem paying Willis is he becomes the focal point of our offense.....

302514[/snapback]

 

i would be hesitant to give willis a long-term extension and here is why:

 

1) i think his best years in the league will be his first 5.......of course that is common for most RB's, but given his injury history, i think this is even more so the case for willis......

 

2) RB's can be replaced more easily then other positions (i.e. CB, LT, etc.).....productive runners can be found later in the draft and represent better value.........

 

3) even if willis is given an extension, he may still cause problems down the road.......rosehaus is delivering incrediable results for his clients, while at the same time screwing over team after team.......a contract means nothing to a rosenhaus client, so willis could still make waves even after getting a big money extension.....

 

4) removing willis from the roster will allow for adequate cap space to resign losman and evans long-term (pending their expected development) and keep the defense near the top of the league.......although all 3 could be signed long-term and the cap maintained, this would have a negative effect on the talent level on defense........

 

willis is signed through 2007......as mentioned before, i doubt he will play out that contract without causing a stir, which i expect will start next off-season........i would keep him for the '06 season and then deal him at "peek" value for all the compensation you can get......the signing bonus acceleration would be minimal and i believe the compensation level would be comparable to the "portis" trade of a year ago (which i think was excellent value)........

[Pete]

Here's a radical idea: instead of a player having a great season, then sitting out for more money, what if a player has a terrible season, and the GM benches him until he gets a new contract for less.... just an interesting scenario, and a fun twist on things.

302530[/snapback]

I have always thought the same thing. Why does arbitration in baseball have to be only for the players benefit. For example- Kevin Brown. The board can say a pitcher who has a 4.09 ERA and breaks his own hand punching a wall, knocking himself out during the playoff stretch is not worth 15 million a year. Verdict- reduce salary to $3 million a year

[rockpile]

This book is a "must read" for anyone who wants to see the other side of agents, players, promises, deals, and poker faces.

 

Check out your local library, they should have a copy.

 

When I started reading this thread, I was thinking of that book, but could not remember the author or title (my copy is at home in a box). Thanks, Bill!

 

This is a great topic. Years ago, I read a book by former agent Mike Trope called "Necessary Roughness." He was around in the days of Howard Slusher, and when Lee Steinberg was cutting his teeth. He represented Lawrence Taylor, Chuck Muncie and countless other stars.

 

Trope points out that while agents get the blame, ultimately it is the player who is responsible for ridiculous demands. For example, T.O. signed one of, if not the largest contracts of all time for a wide receiver. He was certainly not coerced, and is by no means dumb.

Now, he wants a new deal with another huge bonus, and he is bad mouthing his quarterback for "getting tired" in the superbowl. Is this the fault of Rosenhaus? Is T.O. being duped?

 

As football fans, we cheer players, not agents, so it is much easier to lay the blame at the feet of a guy like Rosenhaus than MaGahee, should he demand a new contract. Imo, the players are at least as guilty when it comes to not honoring a contract.

Many of them have been pampered since their teens. They have been showered with gifts from boosters, and had other students take their college exams for them. We have seen one of our own players go broke and need a new contract. I have a hard time blaming his agent.

 

In summary, I view agents as an easy villian. We can cheer our favorite players and blame those greedy, rotten agents when things go bad, but in reality, it is at least a two-way street.

Jmo.

302293[/snapback]

[Puhonix]

I have always thought the same thing.  Why does arbitration in baseball have to be only for the players benefit.  For example- Kevin Brown.  The board can say a pitcher who has a 4.09 ERA and breaks his own hand punching a wall, knocking himself out during the playoff stretch is not worth 15 million a year.  Verdict- reduce salary to $3 million a year

302549[/snapback]

Amen to that.

[IDBillzFan]

It has dawned on me that there is the real world of employment, and there is the NFL.

 

Outside of sports, I can not imagine a profession where you make a deal to do business with someone -- a legally binding deal -- with both sides knowing that at any time they can change their mind, particularly the employee as opposed to the employer.

 

I love the NFL blindly. I love everything that has to do with it. Except this. Not even the blind love of a sport makes me even remotely have any respect for this crap.

[Bill from NYC]

It has dawned on me that there is the real world of employment, and there is the NFL.

 

Outside of sports, I can not imagine a profession where you make a deal to do business with someone -- a legally binding deal -- with both sides knowing that at any time they can change their mind, particularly the employee as opposed to the employer.

 

I love the NFL blindly. I love everything that has to do with it. Except this. Not even the blind love of a sport makes me even remotely have any respect for this crap.

302603[/snapback]

 

Players sometimes sign with an agent, and drop him within weeks. The agent doesn't sue him, because this would scare other players from signing with him.

Sometimes, the players borrow money from agents, which is said to be a major lure.

You are right, it is a circus, and the agents are the easy target.