Kirby Jackson Posted November 22, 2019 Posted November 22, 2019 1 minute ago, BringBackOrton said: Yes, as we all know, multibillion dollar organizations trust the word of malcontents who blackmail them with, “I’m gonna call you racist on the View unless you do what I want.” I’m sure Jerry Jones is BEGGING Garrett to please be nice. That’s not what I’m saying at all. Maybe I’m not being clear. I’m saying the NFL can quietly say to him, “if you stop these accusations and keep your nose clean you’ll be back week 1.” That’s what’s best for everyone. If the NFL says, “you are going to have to earn your way back.” He can turn around and get LOUD with the race card. There’s a couple of ways that this can play out. My assertion is that one outcome is better for both sides and is the likeliest. Just to be clear, I’m not saying anything is right or wrong. This is just how I see it happening. 1 minute ago, GoBills808 said: Some people will believe him and some won't. It's impossible to prove...and there is no news cycle that can feed on a he said/she said for very long. It's just not a compelling argument. That’s fair and maybe true. If he can start pointing to different things though it can become relevant again. It’s just best for both sides that this whole situation disappears.
BringBackOrton Posted November 22, 2019 Posted November 22, 2019 Just now, Kirby Jackson said: That’s not what I’m saying at all. Maybe I’m not being clear. I’m saying the NFL can quietly say to him, “if you stop these accusations and keep your nose clean you’ll be back week 1.” That’s what’s best for everyone. If the NFL says, “you are going to have to earn your way back.” He can turn around and get LOUD with the race card. There’s a couple of ways that this can play out. My assertion is that one outcome is better for both sides and is the likeliest. Just to be clear, I’m not saying anything is right or wrong. This is just how I see it happening. That’s a sign of weakness. They would NEVER do that. What’s stopping Garrett from coming back with, “I want to be reinstated if we make the playoffs for the postseason or I go to the media.” Again, these are billionaire businessmen. They don’t give leverage away for nothing, and that includes giving Garrett ideas they are afraid of ANYTHING he can do to them. They squash him like the bug he is, and he says thank you. That’s it.
NoSaint Posted November 22, 2019 Posted November 22, 2019 13 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said: I would disagree with that. What is the one thing everyone was saying right after the incident - How could he do that? If he was truly called a racial slur and that was what caused him to flip out - don’t you think that he would have been saying that in the confrontation - something like “how dare you say” that along with some expletives. Other players would have known something happened and was said. Second by stating right away it would have gotten to the root of the insanity and would have provided an understanding (not acceptance) of the actions. Many people that watch and cover the sport would still not condone his actions, but have an understanding of why and he would have gotten more support in his position. I do not think it would have changed the ruling - he still deserved the suspension, but it would change the narrative toward him. The delay in stating that until his trial means almost no one will believe him and he looks even worse. Stating it right after the event - he would be a much more believable person and more importantly- his apology and actions would be seen in a different light. given the reactions to dozens if not hundreds of racially sensitive stories that have ended up breaking in many directions... the same people seem to very reliably land on the same side time after time when these break regardless of fact patterns or the end result of the story. It’s both sides and it’s a lot of people. Whether a protest or accusation, I don’t think a large swath of the population will ever say “they handled that the right way” if it’s in the act of bringing a racially charged accusation to light. Likewise many will never question an accusation. 12 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: I think he goes silent for a while now. I don’t think it reappears until the offseason with his suspension still open. I think he takes this year he’s out. If the NFL wants to stretch it, he will push back. We may never know there could already be a deal in place. “You let it die and you will be active week 1.” But if they say “see you in October” where’s his benefit to actually follow through on the “threat?” He wins the game of chicken by actually crashing into his opponent? Sure he could hurt them but it doesn’t help him.
Kirby Jackson Posted November 22, 2019 Posted November 22, 2019 3 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said: That’s a sign of weakness. They would NEVER do that. What’s stopping Garrett from coming back with, “I want to be reinstated if we make the playoffs for the postseason or I go to the media.” Again, these are billionaire businessmen. They don’t give leverage away for nothing, and that includes giving Garrett ideas they are afraid of ANYTHING he can do to them. They squash him like the bug he is, and he says thank you. That’s it. But what are they leveraging? That’s maybe what we aren’t talking about. Do they care if he plays week 1 or week 5? Is that the hill that they are going to die on?!? Of course not, it’s best to just make it go away. It’s like personal injury settlements. It’s always easier to make the plaintiff go away whether you are guilty or not. Working in commercial insurance I see EXACTLY this every single day. Maybe that’s partially what drives my perspective. People claim soft tissue injuries and it’s MUCH cheaper for the carrier to say, “fine, here’s a check, go away” than to challenge it. It doesn’t matter who is right and who is wrong. All that matters is “how do I minimize my exposure?” The NFL’s answer is absolutely to make it go away.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted November 22, 2019 Posted November 22, 2019 16 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said: I will answer on TYTT’s behalf, although he may not agree with me. Yes. Seeing as being a “proven” racist means you can be sued, deprived of your livelihood, disavowed by your employer and have your life destroyed, any FALSE claims with that level of consequence should share the same fate. Similar to the concept that false accusers of rape should serve the same punishment of that of a convicted rapist. Well, I’m not aware of any cases where a “proven” racist to the extent of uttering one slur suffers all those consequences, but if you want to move to a general discussion of such matters the PPP forum will be at your service.
Kirby Jackson Posted November 22, 2019 Posted November 22, 2019 5 minutes ago, NoSaint said: given the reactions to dozens if not hundreds of racially sensitive stories that have ended up breaking in many directions... the same people seem to very reliably land on the same side time after time when these break regardless of fact patterns or the end result of the story. It’s both sides and it’s a lot of people. Whether a protest or accusation, I don’t think a large swath of the population will ever say “they handled that the right way” if it’s in the act of bringing a racially charged accusation to light. Likewise many will never question an accusation. But if they say “see you in October” where’s his benefit to actually follow through on the “threat?” He wins the game of chicken by actually crashing into his opponent? Sure he could hurt them but it doesn’t help him. I agree, it’s a bit of a kamikaze play. The benefit to the NFL to dig in is so minimal. They punished him. They can silence him. His suspension clears week 1. Everyone is okay with that outcome I presume.
Augie Posted November 22, 2019 Posted November 22, 2019 5 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: You were fighting Aug?!? Not me! But some other dads at football games were up for it. I’m too sensible for that. ? My son? I think he only held back because I was standing up in his line of sight. This was post game after a close hoops loss, and Cooper wasn’t even playing. He was surrounded by his small school court jesters, trying to agitate my son at the end. I’m glad my son restrained himself, but I’m also confident he could have done some damage before it got broken up. I would not want to mess with anyone who came in 3rd in the state of Florida in the bench that year, and he was no stranger to a rumble. Cooper could have used a little humility, wherever it came from. What a miserable life, regardless of what he made playing football. Pathetic human being. Nobody was heartbroken when the Cooper punk punched a car window and broke his hand in HS.
NoSaint Posted November 22, 2019 Posted November 22, 2019 Just now, Kirby Jackson said: I agree, it’s a bit of a kamikaze play. The benefit to the NFL to dig in is so minimal. They punished him. They can silence him. His suspension clears week 1. Everyone is okay with that outcome I presume. I agree it’ll be week 1 because that’s relatively in line with past incidents (see haynesworth). I won’t think it’s cause of an unverifiable accusation though as that becomes a default in any punishment levied for an altercation moving forward. Week 5 vs 1 means little to the Nfl. Every fight ending in a racial accusation means a lot to the Nfl. Either they verify it or they can’t. If they can’t, they can’t let it change the outcome. If the can, it becomes a debate.
BringBackOrton Posted November 22, 2019 Posted November 22, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Well, I’m not aware of any cases where a “proven” racist to the extent of uttering one slur suffers all those consequences, but if you want to move to a general discussion of such matters the PPP forum will be at your service. You’re not aware of any cases when someone who said something racist has lost their livelihood or job? What country do you live in? Saying bring it to PPP after posing the question is a copout btw. I’ll drop it, but don’t ask if you don’t think the answer should be posted on TSW. Edited November 22, 2019 by BringBackOrton 1 1
billsfan1959 Posted November 22, 2019 Posted November 22, 2019 2 hours ago, LeviF91 said: Could have been Brett Mason Rudolph I who did it. I'm not sayin...but I'm just sayin... Why are you trying to insinuate it is possible that Rudolph or his father might be involved, in some way, in a hate crime that happened 58 years ago? SMFH...
Kirby Jackson Posted November 22, 2019 Posted November 22, 2019 1 minute ago, NoSaint said: I agree it’ll be week 1 because that’s relatively in line with past incidents (see haynesworth). I won’t think it’s cause of an unverifiable accusation though as that becomes a default in any punishment levied for an altercation moving forward. Week 5 vs 1 means little to the Nfl. Every fight ending in a racial accusation means a lot to the Nfl. Either they verify it or they can’t. If they can’t, they can’t let it change the outcome. If the can, it becomes a debate. That’s all I’m getting at. I think Garrett is fine with the rest of the season. He’s laying the groundwork for this to potentially drag out. He’s getting playing this just in case.
BringBackOrton Posted November 22, 2019 Posted November 22, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: But what are they leveraging? That’s maybe what we aren’t talking about. Do they care if he plays week 1 or week 5? Is that the hill that they are going to die on?!? Of course not, it’s best to just make it go away. It’s like personal injury settlements. It’s always easier to make the plaintiff go away whether you are guilty or not. Working in commercial insurance I see EXACTLY this every single day. Maybe that’s partially what drives my perspective. People claim soft tissue injuries and it’s MUCH cheaper for the carrier to say, “fine, here’s a check, go away” than to challenge it. It doesn’t matter who is right and who is wrong. All that matters is “how do I minimize my exposure?” The NFL’s answer is absolutely to make it go away. They are leveraging precedent. They will not let the Ray Rices of the world cry racism to get what they want. Did you ever ask yourself why Roger Goodell rules with an iron fist? They don’t want the players to have any leverage outside of what they have to concede. Negotiation 101. Carriers write the check because they’ve fought it before and lost. The first time it happened, they didn’t fold because that would be a really dumb way to do business. Edited November 22, 2019 by BringBackOrton
SinceThe70s Posted November 22, 2019 Posted November 22, 2019 31 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: BS Im been around the game my whole life and I can count on 1 hand the amount of times I've heard racial slurs used on the field 26 minutes ago, SirAndrew said: Exactly, people know they just can’t say that kind of stuff. You can’t insult your opponent in a manner that your own teammates would find offensive. I heard an interesting radio call-in today. Caller said he was black and had been a CB at URI years ago.A white safety on URI (Chris) got into it with a Hofstra WR. Another Hofstra player told the CB to settle down his safety after the safety broke out the n word. The callers point was that he didn't believe Garrett based on his own experience of what would happen. Take it for what it's worth, but caller sounded legit. It was telling to me that he named the player - I thought it was subtle to call out Chris without over-shadowing his point.
Rob's House Posted November 22, 2019 Posted November 22, 2019 3 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: Yeah, in some ways that’s what I’m saying. I’m not saying “cave” as in not punish him. I’m saying “cave” as in they will allow him back at the start of next year. The NFL just doesn’t want this in the offseason: I'm disappointed in Marcellus Wiley. That was a pathetically weak take. He's usually better than that.
Reks Ryan Posted November 22, 2019 Posted November 22, 2019 9 hours ago, Mango said: Just got the update via ESPN. That could change things a bit in a bunch of ways. While not condoning, it would make some more sense to the sudden outburst. Feel free to merge with the other Garret v. Rudolph thread if need be https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/28130757/during-appeal-myles-garrett-accused-mason-rudolph-using-racial-slur It wasn’t “reported” it was a made up story by Garret
bbb Posted November 22, 2019 Posted November 22, 2019 At what point in this fight did Rudolph supposedly say this?
whatdrought Posted November 22, 2019 Posted November 22, 2019 58 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: Why are you trying to insinuate it is possible that Rudolph or his father might be involved, in some way, in a hate crime that happened 58 years ago? SMFH... Same reason he's judging Rudolph as a racist based solely on his his name and hometown. Because he's a disingenuous person whose driving a narrative of idiocy. 1
eball Posted November 22, 2019 Posted November 22, 2019 9 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said: A lot of Bills fans would have done the same thing. McCoy has given a lot of evidence that he is kinda of POS, but still plenty of fans defended him. Same with Lynch. Go to a Chiefs board and see how they defend Hill. Personally, it’s kinda pathetic but it’s far from just Browns fans. I have no idea why you felt the need to post this.
Sundancer Posted November 22, 2019 Posted November 22, 2019 8 hours ago, TakeYouToTasker said: QB helmets are mic’d. No they are not, unless it is a special mic-ed up day. One way only.
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