SirAndrew Posted November 22, 2019 Posted November 22, 2019 4 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: BS Im been around the game my whole life and I can count on 1 hand the amount of times I've heard racial slurs used on the field Exactly, people know they just can’t say that kind of stuff. You can’t insult your opponent in a manner that your own teammates would find offensive.
Kirby Jackson Posted November 22, 2019 Posted November 22, 2019 30 minutes ago, NoSaint said: While I get your point I do push back a little that the controversy is almost never as big as we make it on a message board. would it catch some off hand mentions on Sunday morning Espn game preview marathons? Sure. Would it be a CNN story even 5 minutes from now? Probably not. To be clear, I agree. It will be quiet until Garrett says, “I was called a ******. I reacted. This league has enabled people like Riley Cooper.” If he says that it’s back in the news. That isn’t what’s best for anyone. That’s why it is his leverage. It’s not great but he can keep pulling them back. It’s best for everyone if it disappears.
Buffalo716 Posted November 22, 2019 Posted November 22, 2019 5 minutes ago, SirAndrew said: Exactly, people know they just can’t say that kind of stuff. You can’t insult your opponent in a manner that your own teammates would find offensive. I played high level football for 15 years that ***** don't fly The worst thing I ever said was a your momma joke Color is literally irreverent on the field
NoSaint Posted November 22, 2019 Posted November 22, 2019 3 minutes ago, SirAndrew said: I agree with most of that, but I think it’s naive to believe that using certain racial and even ethnic epithets aren’t likely to get you beat up. Just because you can’t use those words wouldn’t make me feel like I’m playing with a crazy teammate. Then again, maybe my experience growing up was different than most. There are some words you just don’t say to people without extremely triggering them. That’s why Garrett would potential make up such a damaging story. I agree, even if it weren’t a lie, it doesn’t necessarily excuse the act, but just saying words does make lots of people come unhinged. That’s why Garrett is going with it. it might be a product of me not being subject to those types of insults beyond being the guy that spills and does clumsy stuff in infomercials but in my mind I think all it would do is make Rudolph even less of a sympathetic victim of the clubbing... it doesn’t absolve the clubber of his actions as much as it would allow me to not feel bad for mason learning a lesson the hard way.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted November 22, 2019 Posted November 22, 2019 5 minutes ago, SirAndrew said: I agree with most of that, but I think it’s naive to believe that using certain racial and even ethnic epithets aren’t likely to get you beat up. Just because you can’t use those words wouldn’t make me feel like I’m playing with a crazy teammate. Then again, maybe my experience growing up was different than most. There are some words you just don’t say to people without extremely triggering them. That’s why Garrett would potential make up such a damaging story. I agree, even if it weren’t a lie, it doesn’t necessarily excuse the act, but just saying words does make lots of people come unhinged. That’s why Garrett is going with it. What you say is completely correct, words have power and there is such a thing as “fighting words”. On the other hand, I don’t know for sure, but it’s my understanding that trying to prick an opponent until he loses his cool and commits a foul, maybe gets ejected ...is part of the game starting quite young, maybe HS. Maybe some of our ex-players here will comment. 1
Mr. WEO Posted November 22, 2019 Posted November 22, 2019 13 minutes ago, wppete said: Very true. If Mason Rudolph doesn’t come out and speak to the media and firmly deny these accusations it will be telling. I don’t believe he would say something like that and Garrett and his scumbag lawyers are just trying to save their ass and money. Rudolph denied ot 5 hours ago 1
GoBills808 Posted November 22, 2019 Posted November 22, 2019 1 minute ago, Kirby Jackson said: To be clear, I agree. It will be quiet until Garrett says, “I was called a ******. I reacted. This league has enabled people like Riley Cooper.” If he says that it’s back in the news. That isn’t what’s best for anyone. That’s why it is his leverage. It’s not great but he can keep pulling them back. It’s best for everyone if it disappears. If Myles Garrett had any leverage he would have won something on appeal. His only relevance at this point is the helmet hitting...nobody will care if he wants to call the league racist over an alleged slur from the guy he assaulted. 1
BringBackOrton Posted November 22, 2019 Posted November 22, 2019 34 minutes ago, NoSaint said: Are all QBs recorded? Don’t believe that’s true. That would be incredibly dumb move for an nfl player to accuse him of saying something knowing that... no? Not much dumber than waiting a week and playing the race card in an obvious save your own skin move with no evidence.
Rochesterfan Posted November 22, 2019 Posted November 22, 2019 17 minutes ago, NoSaint said: I’m not saying let him off the hook. Or that he’s incredibly credible. I’m just saying you’d be hard pressed to find 3 minds changed on this entire board if he grabbed the mic out of the sideline reporters hand on the field that night and accused it straight to the camera on his way off the field. either it’s on tape, or it’s not, and nothing else was changing most minds. Even if it was on tape he doesn’t get to rip the guys helmet off and club him. rudolph wants this to disappear too. he will deny the accusation, and if smart quietly move on. In the reality of the NFL world pressing assault charges would be a worse crime than the fight or a slur- regardless of his rights or the rules. He won’t be “that guy.” he released his denial. Will let his teammates defend him. And maybe does a minor interview down the line. If he takes this to court he becomes the sideshow teams don’t want. I would disagree with that. What is the one thing everyone was saying right after the incident - How could he do that? If he was truly called a racial slur and that was what caused him to flip out - don’t you think that he would have been saying that in the confrontation - something like “how dare you say” that along with some expletives. Other players would have known something happened and was said. Second by stating right away it would have gotten to the root of the insanity and would have provided an understanding (not acceptance) of the actions. Many people that watch and cover the sport would still not condone his actions, but have an understanding of why and he would have gotten more support in his position. I do not think it would have changed the ruling - he still deserved the suspension, but it would change the narrative toward him. The delay in stating that until his trial means almost no one will believe him and he looks even worse. Stating it right after the event - he would be a much more believable person and more importantly- his apology and actions would be seen in a different light.
Saxum Posted November 22, 2019 Posted November 22, 2019 34 minutes ago, SirAndrew said: Defamation suits are tough to win. People are getting a little overzealous around here thinking Rudolph is getting something out of this madness. He should have taken the opportunity to press charges which he declined. That would have shut up him at least to investigation went to charges in hope he could settle out of court.
NoSaint Posted November 22, 2019 Posted November 22, 2019 4 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: To be clear, I agree. It will be quiet until Garrett says, “I was called a ******. I reacted. This league has enabled people like Riley Cooper.” If he says that it’s back in the news. That isn’t what’s best for anyone. That’s why it is his leverage. It’s not great but he can keep pulling them back. It’s best for everyone if it disappears. Yea- but I’m not sure that is a long term winning formula for Garrett if they still nail him. what does he gain by pushing that after his appeal is denied? He can leverage the risk now but does he raise his stock/value in any way come next October if he’s suspended and beating that drum? much like Rudolph, you might see a minor interview on a pregame show or with the local team but he’s not making the network rounds with this and because of that it dies in 60 seconds.
BringBackOrton Posted November 22, 2019 Posted November 22, 2019 25 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: That seems over-the-top, especially given that we can not be certain that it did or did not happen. Garrett had no business using his helmet to club Rudolph on the bare head. The claim of provoked by a racial epithet doesn’t seem to make it better to me - I dunno, but I’d guess that football players say all kinds of trash to each other all the time to try to get under each other’s skin. I wouldn’t want to play with a man who might be so triggered by the right epithet that he’ll try to kill me with my own helmet. On the other hand, you’re suggesting that the punishment for perhaps mishearing or misrecalling something (or lying) should be highly extreme. I don’t really quite know where to go with this. If you cast aspersions on my character, do you feel you should be sued, deprived of your livelihood, disavowed by your employer, and destroyed? Does this apply to any aspersions? Only vile ones? How vile do they have to be, and what’s the standard for that? I will answer on TYTT’s behalf, although he may not agree with me. Yes. Seeing as being a “proven” racist means you can be sued, deprived of your livelihood, disavowed by your employer and have your life destroyed, any FALSE claims with that level of consequence should share the same fate. Similar to the concept that false accusers of rape should serve the same punishment of that of a convicted rapist. 1
Augie Posted November 22, 2019 Posted November 22, 2019 8 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: To be clear, I agree. It will be quiet until Garrett says, “I was called a ******. I reacted. This league has enabled people like Riley Cooper.” If he says that it’s back in the news. That isn’t what’s best for anyone. That’s why it is his leverage. It’s not great but he can keep pulling them back. It’s best for everyone if it disappears. My kids played against Riley Cooper’s HS. He’s not just a racist. That is just the starting point of what a jerk he is. There were parents who wanted to beat the crap out of that kid! It almost got ugly one time at a hoops game with my older son. He was never going to play professional sports, but he benched north of 400#’s and had a short fuse. I thought it was going to happen that night.
Kirby Jackson Posted November 22, 2019 Posted November 22, 2019 3 minutes ago, NoSaint said: Yea- but I’m not sure that is a long term winning formula for Garrett if they still nail him. what does he gain by pushing that after his appeal is denied? He can leverage the risk now but does he raise his stock/value in any way come next October if he’s suspended and beating that drum? much like Rudolph, you might see a minor interview on a pregame show or with the local team but he’s not making the network rounds with this and because of that it dies in 60 seconds. I think he goes silent for a while now. I don’t think it reappears until the offseason with his suspension still open. I think he takes this year he’s out. If the NFL wants to stretch it, he will push back. We may never know there could already be a deal in place. “You let it die and you will be active week 1.”
TakeYouToTasker Posted November 22, 2019 Posted November 22, 2019 27 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: That seems over-the-top, especially given that we can not be certain that it did or did not happen. Garrett had no business using his helmet to club Rudolph on the bare head. The claim of provoked by a racial epithet doesn’t seem to make it better to me - I dunno, but I’d guess that football players say all kinds of trash to each other all the time to try to get under each other’s skin. I wouldn’t want to play with a man who might be so triggered by the right epithet that he’ll try to kill me with my own helmet. On the other hand, you’re suggesting that the punishment for perhaps mishearing or misrecalling something (or lying) should be highly extreme. I don’t really quite know where to go with this. If you cast aspersions on my character, do you feel you should be sued, deprived of your livelihood, disavowed by your employer, and destroyed? Does this apply to any aspersions? Only vile ones? How vile do they have to be, and what’s the standard for that? Nope.
Kirby Jackson Posted November 22, 2019 Posted November 22, 2019 9 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: If Myles Garrett had any leverage he would have won something on appeal. His only relevance at this point is the helmet hitting...nobody will care if he wants to call the league racist over an alleged slur from the guy he assaulted. That’s where we disagree. I already presented people that believe him. In 2019, in the US, you can say a lot of things without proof. If you are loud enough some will believe you. He can either get loud and have people talking or bury it and it will go away. He will play whatever hand leaves him in the best position. If the league wants to expand the suspension he can try to make it a bigger deal.
BringBackOrton Posted November 22, 2019 Posted November 22, 2019 1 minute ago, Kirby Jackson said: I think he goes silent for a while now. I don’t think it reappears until the offseason with his suspension still open. I think he takes this year he’s out. If the NFL wants to stretch it, he will push back. We may never know there could already be a deal in place. “You let it die and you will be active week 1.” Yes, as we all know, multibillion dollar organizations trust the word of malcontents who blackmail them with, “I’m gonna call you racist on the View unless you do what I want.” I’m sure Jerry Jones is BEGGING Garrett to please be nice.
Kirby Jackson Posted November 22, 2019 Posted November 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, Augie said: My kids played against Riley Cooper’s HS. He’s not just a racist. That is just the starting point of what a jerk he is. There were parents who wanted to beat the crap out of that kid! It almost got ugly one time at a hoops game with my older son. He was never going to play professional sports, but he benched north of 400#’s and had a short fuse. I thought it was going to happen that night. You were fighting Aug?!?
Hapless Bills Fan Posted November 22, 2019 Posted November 22, 2019 32 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: BS Im been around the game my whole life and I can count on 1 hand the amount of times I've heard racial slurs used on the field There was a chippy HS playoff game here a while back. The star DB (4 star recruit) claimed the other team was at him with racial epiphets towards him the whole game. What brought it out was finally his coaches rushed the bench of the other team. It was pretty wild. The other team denied it categorically. And of course, even if it was true, it didn’t justify the coaches attacking the opponent’s bench Both teams of course had many black players. One team almost all black, the other more mixed but still significant.
GoBills808 Posted November 22, 2019 Posted November 22, 2019 Just now, Kirby Jackson said: That’s where we disagree. I already presented people that believe him. In 2019, in the US, you can say a lot of things without proof. If you are loud enough some will believe you. He can either get loud and have people talking or bury it and it will go away. He will play whatever hand leaves him in the best position. If the league wants to expand the suspension he can try to make it a bigger deal. Some people will believe him and some won't. It's impossible to prove...and there is no news cycle that can feed on a he said/she said for very long. It's just not a compelling argument.
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