3rdand12 Posted November 21, 2019 Posted November 21, 2019 1 hour ago, mjt328 said: You basically have John Brown as our #1 target, Cole Beasley as our #2, and a bunch of guys who are limited in skills. Andre Roberts is a pretty good return guy, but is below average on everything else required from a WR. Isaiah McKenzie is quick and runs nice gadget plays, but doesn't have great hands and his fumble issues make him risky as a returner. Robert Foster is a proven deep threat, but doesn't really do anything else well and still often struggles make plays on the ball. Duke Williams is big and has good hands, but he's also really slow and struggles to get open. When you have a group like this, the coaching staff is forced to activate/deactivate players based on gameplan. Roberts gets called up regularly, because we must have a KR/PR each week. McKenzie is getting preference over Foster, because we are having more success with jet-sweeps than deep passes. That has left Williams as the odd-man out, because his skill-set can be duplicated by one of the tight ends. Nice post ! : ) I think it is situational football by Daboll. and developing Allen. Bills have a set of WRS to pull from. Roberts Mac and Duke and then Foster are interchangeable depending on game plan. And Allen needs to have chemistry with all of them some how as well. 2 minutes ago, Codyny13 said: All about special teams. Gotta contribute when you’re on the bottom of the depth chart. Foster plays teams. Point taken !
Bronxbomber21 Posted November 21, 2019 Author Posted November 21, 2019 (edited) It just doesn't make sense though Duke gets a game winning TD then a week and a half later hes not on the active roster Edited November 21, 2019 by Bronxbomber21
Maybe Someday Posted November 21, 2019 Posted November 21, 2019 I've been assuming there's a mental aspect missing with Foster and Duke. They have to be able to read the defense and adjust their routes so they are where Josh expects them to be. If you don't know what you're doing you don't play.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted November 21, 2019 Posted November 21, 2019 4 hours ago, Halloween Land said: I hope he's active this Sunday but I doubt it, the coaching staff seems to be stubborn at times. Maybe they see him in practice the rest of the week 1
Augie Posted November 21, 2019 Posted November 21, 2019 I wonder who will be next year’s “last WR/fan favorite”. This seems to happen every year.
bmur66 Posted November 21, 2019 Posted November 21, 2019 Duke may be injured. I think he will reappear soon.
Houston's #1 Bills Fan Posted November 21, 2019 Posted November 21, 2019 4 hours ago, jwhit34 said: Duke Williams continues to be the 6th best WR on the team behind Brown, Beasley, McKenzie, Roberts and Foster. And only 5 are active on game day. Duke starting to look like he will join the ranks of Da'rick Rodgers, Brandon Reilly, Naaman Roosevelt, Dezmin Lewis, Kolby Listenbee and many others of fan-obsessed, marginal to sub-standard NFL WR talent to spend time with the Bills. I think it all dates back to Don Beebe, who had a decent NFL career but was way overvalued by Bills fans. He had 164 receptions for the Bills in 6 years, never had more than 40 and capped out ta 554 yards. Let me ask you: How much value would place to have Don Beebe in his prime on this team right now? I know I'd take that speed and Josh's arm.
atlbillsfan1975 Posted November 21, 2019 Posted November 21, 2019 His own position coach called him slow.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted November 21, 2019 Posted November 21, 2019 25 minutes ago, bmur66 said: Duke may be injured. I think he will reappear soon. I could be wrong, but I think it would be a No-no for the Bills if he is injured and on the 53 but not showing up on the injury report. 1 hour ago, Codyny13 said: All about special teams. Gotta contribute when you’re on the bottom of the depth chart. Foster plays teams. Duke plays teams also. But he has a more generic role that is interchangeable with several guys playing teams. Foster has been being used as the Gunner, which his speed allows him to do.
Dopey Posted November 21, 2019 Posted November 21, 2019 11 minutes ago, Bronxbomber21 said: It just doesn't make sense though Duke gets a game winning TD then a week and a half hes not on the active roster Here's why I trust the staff and why it makes sense: 4 games pre-Duke: We avg. 19 points per game and 225.75 passing yds per game 3 games with Duke: We avg. 19.33 points per game and 181 passing yds per game 3 games since Duke has been a healthy scratch: We avg. 25.6 points per game and 227.3 passing yds per game Duke got his chance. He scored a TD. We still only scored 14 points that game. Overall his presence hasn't helped like some thought it would. Scoring went up by only .33 per game from the previous 3 games and passing yds went DOWN by over 44 yds per game with him in the lineup. Duke then sits and scoring goes up by over 6 points per game and passing yds go up by over 46 yds per game. Seems the passing game was better both pre and post Duke. 1
fansince88 Posted November 21, 2019 Posted November 21, 2019 1 hour ago, 3rdand12 said: thats what my eyes tell me. dude pulls the ball in regardless. I am a Duke Watcher lol majic 8 ball says no ? this 110 % hurts me to say it though Because I said it? I kid... but really, they are building a trust. I have to wonder when Pats traded Bledso to the Bills and started this kid that wasnt even heard of how long did it take the fans to begin to trust thst "process" for the lack of a better term? Now many years later and they have a ton of rings and Championships to show for it. Now because they trust the franchise when they cut this guy and pick up thst one they say, "ok, they know what they are doing". I want to be there as a fan base. They are sucking me in. What's next? 1
Mr. WEO Posted November 21, 2019 Posted November 21, 2019 4 hours ago, JR in Pittsburgh said: that speed though is not translating into any separation. I’d rather have the size and a guy who can out-physical and high point the ball. 4 hours ago, John from Riverside said: As opposed to keeping a WR who has speed but cant track a ball in Robert Foster because he plays special teams (which gave up AWEFUL plays Sunday) Duke blocks for the run Duke catches the ball Duke high points balls Play Duke The talking points sheet making the rounds. Anyway, if all of this was true, he wouldn't be where he is on the depth chart on a team millimeters deep at WR talent. 1
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted November 21, 2019 Posted November 21, 2019 5 hours ago, Halloween Land said: I hope he's active this Sunday but I doubt it, the coaching staff seems to be stubborn at times. Agree certainly fans posting on a message board who don't view practice, game film, are sitting in on meetings know much more than the coaches. Maybe Williams will be active this week, maybe not. But do think the coaches are in a better position than a bunch of fanatics obsessed with a player. 1
Meatloaf63 Posted November 21, 2019 Posted November 21, 2019 4 hours ago, jwhit34 said: Foster did not get any offensive snaps vs. Miami so he would have to take snaps away from the other 4. Having only played in 3 games, made 6 receptions and played about 120 snaps, to assert that he blocks, catches and high points the ball are merely conjecture. Then you didn’t watch the plays he got... 4 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said: Agree certainly fans posting on a message board who don't view practice, game film, are sitting in on meetings know much more than the coaches. Maybe Williams will be active this week, maybe not. But do think the coaches are in a better position than a bunch of fanatics obsessed with a player. You’re right, these coaches never make a judgment mistake. Just ask a Peterman ....
LABILLBACKER Posted November 21, 2019 Posted November 21, 2019 (edited) I'm tired of waiting around for Foster to produce. I think that experiment is over. Not taking advantage of Duke's redzone skills is just plain stupid. There's plenty of underperforming players to have Duke replace. He's literally played 1.5 games and looked great. It takes this staff so damn long to make what seems to us easy decisions (Peterman, Zay). Real head scratcher? Edited November 21, 2019 by LABILLBACKER
WideNine Posted November 21, 2019 Posted November 21, 2019 5 hours ago, jwhit34 said: Duke Williams continues to be the 6th best WR on the team behind Brown, Beasley, McKenzie, Roberts and Foster. And only 5 are active on game day. Duke starting to look like he will join the ranks of Da'rick Rodgers, Brandon Reilly, Naaman Roosevelt, Dezmin Lewis, Kolby Listenbee and many others of fan-obsessed, marginal to sub-standard NFL WR talent to spend time with the Bills. I think it all dates back to Don Beebe, who had a decent NFL career but was way overvalued by Bills fans. He had 164 receptions for the Bills in 6 years, never had more than 40 and capped out ta 554 yards. If marginal and sub-standard means productive when given the chance in actual games, blocking on the edges, high pointing balls, winning contested throws, and scoring TDs, then I do like marginal WRs over track guys that rarely produce when given multiple games and reps to show up. Count me among the delusional that want to see more production out of our WR positions. Other than Brown I think there is plenty of marginal and sub-standard getting the nod to start each week. There is room to explore other personnel options on this roster, not sure why he is in Daboll's dog house.
Dopey Posted November 21, 2019 Posted November 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, WideNine said: If marginal and sub-standard means productive when given the chance in actual games, blocking on the edges, high pointing balls, winning contested throws, and scoring TDs, then I do like marginal WRs over track guys that rarely produce when given multiple games and reps to show up. Count me among the delusional that want to see more production out of our WR positions. Other than Brown I think there is plenty of marginal and sub-standard getting the nod to start each week. There is room to explore other personnel options on this roster, not sure why he is in Daboll's dog house. They did explore him as an option He had his chance and our scoring didn't improve, but passing #'s sank. He sits again, scoring goes up and passing #'s drastically improve. Our passing game was better with Zay in there. Check the #'s. I put them in a previous post. You say he's a good edge blocker, but the rushing #'s dropped when Duke played. By a lot. Pre Duke rushing avg per game: 147.25 While Duke played avg per game: 108 Post Duke rushing avg per game: 124.6 Passing numbers dropped by a lot, as did rushing numbers when Duke was in. He then sits and those numbers go up, by a lot. He had his chance and the offense went south while he played. Both passing and rushing. Isn't it easier to actually be open rather than have to fight for the ball cuz you can't get separation? He needs work on run blocking, getting separation from the line of scrimmage without help from a running start and if he's gonna contribute, he really needs to work on ST play. Right now he's just a big slow WR. We have TE's for that. The numbers tell an interesting story, but as others here say, "It takes this staff so damn long to make what seems to us fans easy decisions" or "there is room to explore other personnel options on this roster"(even though they already did). 1
JoPoy88 Posted November 21, 2019 Posted November 21, 2019 (edited) Every week: Duke inactive. Every week, several threads: “brah Duke should be activated. Obviously I know more than the coaches who see his gimpy ass every day in practice where he can’t get separation from a 4th string corner” Edited November 21, 2019 by JoPoy88
WideNine Posted November 21, 2019 Posted November 21, 2019 2 hours ago, Dopey said: Here's why I trust the staff and why it makes sense: 4 games pre-Duke: We avg. 19 points per game and 225.75 passing yds per game 3 games with Duke: We avg. 19.33 points per game and 181 passing yds per game 3 games since Duke has been a healthy scratch: We avg. 25.6 points per game and 227.3 passing yds per game Duke got his chance. He scored a TD. We still only scored 14 points that game. Overall his presence hasn't helped like some thought it would. Scoring went up by only .33 per game from the previous 3 games and passing yds went DOWN by over 44 yds per game with him in the lineup. Duke then sits and scoring goes up by over 6 points per game and passing yds go up by over 46 yds per game. Seems the passing game was better both pre and post Duke. You may trust this staff, but I am still skeptical in regards to their ability to judge receiving talent - We are not that far removed from Kelvin Benjamin and Zay Jones. Brown was a proven commodity before coming to the Bills. Your rushing analogy makes no sense - correlation is not causation for example: Against the Browns we had a combined 56 yards rushing for all our backs, but Duke was not in the game. The ONLY possible explanation is that we lacked the impact of having Duke's blocking on the edges? In regards to total rushing yards, Daboll throws darts at a board deciding on how often this team is going to run the ball and the number of rushing yards has nothing to do with the fact that Duke is a better blocker on the edges than our smurfs. Duke has only been targeted 7 times - he has caught 6 of those for 58 yards and a score. You have to be used to see if you can be useful, and this staff gives way more opportunities to some to prove they suck than others. I assume there has to be more to the story, and it may simply be a numbers game with the personnel packages they want to run, but I am not going to say the kid can't ball. Titans Duke 4 targets 4 completions 29 yards and TD Miami 1st divisional game Duke targeted once - complete for 23 yards Eagles Duke 2 targets - completion 1 for 6 yards 1
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