Brandt: "People are crazy to tell Josh Allen not to run"

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

The article here says there is no real correlation between being scrambling and injuries.  The real concern for injury is a takedown during a throw.   

 

My thought is just win anyway you can.   You drafted Allen because he has exceptional physical traits.    Let him use those traits while you build on to them.  Taking away the very traits you drafted him for doesnt make any sense. 

 

To an extent, Roman addressed this re: Jackson.  He said "when he runs, he's in total control of what happens".  Well, no not total, but I "get it" that the fate control is higher than when standing in the pocket.

 

The problem with Josh was, as Lee Smith put it, his willingness to "run head first into other human beings".  And he does open himself to cheap shots from teams like the Pats who will do that "take out the head" thing.

[ALLEN1QB]

54 minutes ago, HOUSE said:

 

 

If Buffalo wants to make a late-season run, Brandt believes Allen shouldn't hold back on scrambling. 

 

https://wgr550.radio.com/articles/opinion/brandt-people-are-crazy-tell-josh-allen-not-run

 

 

 I agree 100% but can somebody please teach him ball security

[SoCal Deek]

I would love to see him run more, especially when he breaks the pocket containment. That’s been missing from the offense this season and it will be important to keep better defenses honest down the stretch.  But...I’ve been thrilled to see that he’s not throwing late over the middle the last few weeks.

[Buffalo Boy]

24 minutes ago, PaattMaann said:

 

He is literally nothing like Losman. So your emotional mind is out of its mind. 

The way he stands back there, not pulling the trigger. He looks EXACTLY like Losman?

[PaattMaann]

Just now, Buffalo Boy said:

The way he stands back there, not pulling the trigger. He looks EXACTLY like Losman?

 

Yea or the way he stands back there and going through progressions looks NOTHING like Losman

 

[mannc]

18 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I have a theory that actually the Bills did put the handcuffs on Josh's running this season.

 

I think Daboll and McDermott looked at the meme developing "force him to beat you as a QB" and set out to design a game plan that did just that - forced Josh to stay in the pocket and beat teams with his arm.  I think at this point, they feel he's learned to stay in there and move around make his reads and throw, and it's OK for him to run more. 

 

But I don't think they want him scrambling so much, I think they are trying to mix in, not a "ton", but a judicious amount of RPOs - which if I'm not mistaken, were highly effective sometimes against Miami.

 

The fumble tendency is concerning.

I agree.  I think they have reined in Josh’s running this year, for a lot of reasons.  

Oregon has done the same thing this year with Justin Herbert, a guy who reminds me a lot of Josh.  I don’t think the Ducks have called a single designed run for him this year. It’s made their offense easier to defend at times, but I think it’s also made Herbert a better pocket passer—and it’s kept him on the field, and out of the training room.  I think the Bills are doing something like that with Josh, but not to the same degree.  His running is too important to an offense that lacks other weapons.  As the games get more important, I wouldn’t be surprised to see him run more.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

The article here says there is no real correlation between being scrambling and injuries.  The real concern for injury is a takedown during a throw.   

 

My thought is just win anyway you can.   You drafted Allen because he has exceptional physical traits.    Let him use those traits while you build on to them.  Taking away the very traits you drafted him for doesnt make any sense. 

 

TBH, I think they drafted Allen entirely for his potential as a pocket passer, including enough agility that they felt they could develop as pocket mobility and escapability ala Rodgers.

 

I think they had NO idea he would have NFL-level agility and acceleration.  I heard Josh quip something about it on one of those Charity fluff events, Top Golf.  (it's pretty funny, worth a listen.  MC is a former NFL punter I think.)

 

MC: "Harrison Phillips said that they (Buffalo coaches and FO) had no idea that you would be the dual threat QB you have become"

JA: (very deadpan) "Me either.  No.  No."

MC: (laughs) "6'6" guy from the University of Wyoming, this guy is going to be a freak athlete, is what everybody was thinking"

JA: "Yeah.  Exactly"

 

I mean, they saw he had some mobility at Wyoming, but I think the feeling was "yeah, yeah, that's Wyoming, that won't fly in the NFL."  He ran, what, 4.75 at the combine?  That's like, 0.05 seconds faster than freakin' Sam Darnold, in pajamas and they train for it. 

 

It's really a pretty good interview wrapped around a pretty hokie charity golf contest.  His personality really comes out and he says some interesting stuff.  For example that as a HS Sophomore, he was 5'10 and 145 pounds and his baseball teammates called him "Tortuga" (tortoise).  Then when he hit his growth spurt, he couldn't run initially.

 

Anyway,  I think Josh's running ability at the NFL level took everyone, including the Bills, by surprise.

[Buffalo Boy]

1 minute ago, PaattMaann said:

 

Yea or the way he stands back there and going through progressions looks NOTHING like Losman

 

   Me thinks someone has never watched the two QBs I’m comparing, not understanding what they are seeing in real time and pulling the trigger On time.

    The difference is JP never got it and we are seeing JA starting to get it. 
    Having said that, the middle part of this season was tough to watch.

[TheElectricCompany]

41 minutes ago, Luka said:

 

Lamar takes some shots at the end of runs sometimes. I'm torn on the whole sliding thing, seems like that's when QBs get hit the worst. Either need to slide early or take the guy on IMO.

 

I think Lamar will be more like Russel Wilson long term. He has the speed and elusiveness to get to the sideline after picking up the first. 

The 40 yard dashes between the tackles are awesome, but not sustainable. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

57 minutes ago, Mark80 said:

It feels like they are spying him way more this season.  That could be a big reason he isn't running as much.  It's just not as open as it was last year.

 

They are spying him more this season and that is a reason why he isn't running as much.  But spys only work to some extent.  I mean, every team spys Jackson, right, how does that work?

 

I wish Josh would work on his play fake.  He does a much much better play fake that really sells the RB getting the ball on the Bills RPOs, but it's becoming a "tell"

[BarleyNY]

I agree on running Josh more.  It’s a necessary risk to achieve team success.  Agree on him needing to work on his play fake as well as ball security though. 

[PaattMaann]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo Boy said:

   Me thinks someone has never watched the two QBs I’m comparing, not understanding what they are seeing in real time and pulling the trigger On time.

    The difference is JP never got it and we are seeing JA starting to get it. 
    Having said that, the middle part of this season was tough to watch.

 

You thinks wrong then. I remember hoping beyond hope JP was the guy, liked his big arm, was enamored by it. Loved the connection with Lee Evans for half a season, thought "this is it". But couldnt stand how he didnt seem to know how to play QB. JP would lock on, and JP needed easy passes to boost his completion %. He couldnt dream of making many reads and throws that Josh already does. 

 

Even in Josh's low moments so far I havent seen him "not know how to play QB". 

 

What was tough to watch about the middle part? Are you just referring to the Patriots game? They have confused everyone....Eagles game? Some of it he looked rough. He has looked rough at times due to him being a developmental project, but standing around not knowing what to do is no where near accurate.

[zow2]

1 hour ago, Bleed Bills Blue said:

Pick the right spots for designed runs and allow him to trust his instincts when he decides to take off. Too valuable a weapon to ignore on an offense that needs to utilize everything it's got. Of course, be smart about it. But also be fearless.

 

The key word is "scrambling".  Josh is awesome at ducking out of the pocket and taking off.  It's a huge weapon. He needs to continue to scramble when the opportunity is there and when he can't find a free receiver.  The designed runs are not as effective IMO except down by the goal line.  

I've heard the call for Kyler Murray to scramble more too.  He's much more effective when he does that.

 

The teams that don't have a QB that can run, WANT a QB that can run a bit.

Edited November 20, 2019 by zow2

[bigK14094]

39 minutes ago, Buffalo Boy said:

   My emotional mind tells me he’s Losman 2.0 without the deep ball, standing back there over processing and over thinking.

   My rational mind sees the progress. A thousand times better in the short game. Throwing it away when there is nothing there. Watching Wentz against NE, I saw similar play. His throws are in accurate to the high side.

    I don’t like the designed runs where the o line is bunched in tight with TEs. I HATE the read option, it will get him killed. He is best when the safeties are deep and there is room to run: Four or Five wides.

I watched Wentz against NE as well.  He was missing the throws he m ade against the Bills.  Hence the different results.  Allen needs to run some to keep the D off balance, and designed runs can be a few of them.  I liked the TD run against Miami......the circumstance where he is most effective is near the goal line....as the run or throw option keeps the D off balance.  I look to him throwing more and faking the run in the future.

[thenorthremembers]

14 minutes ago, Buffalo Boy said:

   Me thinks someone has never watched the two QBs I’m comparing, not understanding what they are seeing in real time and pulling the trigger On time.

    The difference is JP never got it and we are seeing JA starting to get it. 
    Having said that, the middle part of this season was tough to watch.

I watched both of them and agree they arent anywhere near the same guy.  J.P. sat back and watched and watched because he could hit one pass, deep and outside the hashes.   Allen is a much more nuanced passer who hits players over the middle of the field, but has a much harder time with throws outside the hash like I just said JP did well.   Maybe they both take time in the pocket but for different reasons.   Like the other poster said, Josh is going through progressions.   JP was waiting for someone to break free deep.    Essentially J.P. was waiting for someone to break off of the called route and turn it into a 9 route while he scrambled around the field.

Edited November 20, 2019 by thenorthremembers

[CLTbills]

Do away with the designed runs, unless its a keeper on 3rd or 4th and 1 - there isn't a short-yardage back in the NFL better than he is at converting those - but don't discourage him from using his legs on an improv-type play. That's where he's most dangerous.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

1 hour ago, Bleed Bills Blue said:

Pick the right spots for designed runs and allow him to trust his instincts when he decides to take off. Too valuable a weapon to ignore on an offense that needs to utilize everything it's got. Of course, be smart about it. But also be fearless.

 

I don't like the designed like - QB run into traffic.  I'm fine with a simple single read option where he's more in the open field.  As for scrambling?  Just know when to take off and get down.

6 minutes ago, CLTbills said:

Do away with the designed runs, unless its a keeper on 3rd or 4th and 1 - there isn't a short-yardage back in the NFL better than he is at converting those - but don't discourage him from using his legs on an improv-type play. That's where he's most dangerous.

 

I don't mind zone reads and RPOs though.  Use your QBs athleticism. 

[Hebert19]

52 minutes ago, PaattMaann said:

 

He is literally nothing like Losman. So your emotional mind is out of its mind. 

This.  He has not one physical or character trait similar to losman. 

[Da webster guy]

1 hour ago, TheElectricCompany said:

Allen runs like Cam and Tebow, which is a long term concern. You can't have your QB playing power back.

He should run like Lamar and juke people out of their cleats ?

 

 

I think Russell Wilson is the gold standard for running qb's.   Elusive, shifty but very aware of where the big hit can come from and geting down quickly.   

Josh has the insincts and the big Gronk stride where he doesn't look fast but he runs by you.   

The majority of qb's that run a lot have shorter careers and miss more games along the way though.

[JoeF]

1 hour ago, HOUSE said:

I am not a big fan of goal line up the middle running, to many big guys crashing the line.

The RPOs and designed sweeps are pretty damn cool though...slide or get out of bounds.  If the defense has to dedicate a spy to Josh running -- it has to open up passing lanes.