Was Daboll talking Allen through pre-snap coverages yesterday?

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

 

Its why Goff looks lost out there now...can't read coverages, can't diagnose pre snap reads, etc etc...

 

Once the DCs took away the gimmick plays and forced Goff to play QB he couldn't do it...he looks terrible out there.

 

It is part of the reason. Though the Rams were never a gimmick offense. They weren't the Bears. The Rams were running a quite traditional offense with lots of window dressing. 

 

The much bigger part of the reason Goff looks lost is McVay is lost. His offense has been worked out and forced him to adjust and he can't. Goff needs to play better but go watch the all 22 of a Rams game the past 6 weeks..... nobody can get open and there are not creases for the run game. 

[Big C]

I mean, isn't that part of the advantage of being in the booth? The only way it can hinder Josh's development as some seem to worry is if Daboll reads the defense, calls the plays and the reads for Josh every single play and never explains why during or after. 

[Big Turk]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It is part of the reason. Though the Rams were never a gimmick offense. They weren't the Bears. The Rams were running a quite traditional offense with lots of window dressing. 

 

The much bigger part of the reason Goff looks lost is McVay is lost. His offense has been worked out and forced him to adjust and he can't. Goff needs to play better but go watch the all 22 of a Rams game the past 6 weeks..... nobody can get open and there are not creases for the run game. 

 

This article disputes that...it claims McVay has adjusted to virtually everything that has been done to slow them down and that Goff is holding them back because he hasn't been able to execute well enough...

 

This is from 3 games into the season but i think its gotten worse not better mostly for Goff...

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/ftw.usatoday.com/2019/09/sean-mcvay-jared-goff-super-bowl-adjustments-patriots/amp

[Big C]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It is part of the reason. Though the Rams were never a gimmick offense. They weren't the Bears. The Rams were running a quite traditional offense with lots of window dressing. 

 

The much bigger part of the reason Goff looks lost is McVay is lost. His offense has been worked out and forced him to adjust and he can't. Goff needs to play better but go watch the all 22 of a Rams game the past 6 weeks..... nobody can get open and there are not creases for the run game. 

 

Agreed about McVay. Considering the Rams OL is not as dominant this year and Gurley is worse for the wear, not to mention Cooks got knocked out again, this is his first big test as an NFL HC and OC. Let's see how he adjusts.

Just now, matter2003 said:

 

This article disputes that...it claims McVay has adjusted to virtually everything that has been done to slow them down and that Goff is holding them back because he hasn't been able to execute well enough...

 

This is from 3 games into the season but i think its gotten worse not better mostly for Goff...

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/ftw.usatoday.com/2019/09/sean-mcvay-jared-goff-super-bowl-adjustments-patriots/amp

 

Well we all knew that McVay made Goff. If McVay has indeed adjusted everything in his offense and Goff can't execute, it will be interesting to see what their next move is. I don't know all the cap numbers, but I'm pretty certain they are stuck with Goff for now.

[PolishPrince]

1 minute ago, Calidiehard said:

You can read the defensive alignments from the sidelines as well. So him talking in the headset from down below or from up top really doesn't give that much of an advantage. 

This.... in fact, McVay is on the sidelines when he does this - so not sure why suddenly “Daboll in booth, he is now doing McVay things”

[Saxum]

17 minutes ago, Calidiehard said:

You can read the defensive alignments from the sidelines as well. So him talking in the headset from down below or from up top really doesn't give that much of an advantage. 

 

From up top there is a much better view of the field than from the sideline.

[Tesla03]

I really hope we go uptempo all game vs the broncos. their fans say the defense really struggles with quick tempo offenses that get plays off quickly. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

29 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Having the actual play signal  vs having a coach trying to read the defense is a bit different

 

A QB realistically should learn how to breakdown a defense pre snap without needing his coach to help him eventually

I’m just saying it’s out there the Pats were doing this and Tommy seems to have developed ok.  

[Pokebball]

Josh was asked about Daboll being upstairs in his post game yesterday.  He jokingly said there were a couple of times he stepped up for the snap and looked to Daboll on the sidelines and couldn't find him, then remembered he was up stairs.  I don't think Daboll was talking to him.

[JESSEFEFFER]

43 minutes ago, CommonCents said:

Hmm, Archuleta was slamming the Bills

and Allen for repeatedly snapping the ball

with so much time left on the play clock when up by 10.

 

It makes more sense now. 

Then scored a td on a sharp looking drive which he called glamorous.

[Pokebball]

4 minutes ago, Tesla03 said:

I really hope we go uptempo all game vs the broncos. their fans say the defense really struggles with quick tempo offenses that get plays off quickly. 

Yesterday was the first time I heard they struggled with the uptempo.  Not to say we shouldn't try it, but I assume they're working on that this week.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, HappyDays said:

This is an interesting theory. Basically the same thing McVay was doing for Goff.

 

 

 

I think it's interesting to look at what Daboll and what others in the organization are saying about this:

 

"There's audibles - [Josh] has freedom to get us to what he feels is the best play, both protection wise and route concept.  We spend a lot of time on that during the week.  and I've said it before, I'll say it again, I trust him."  "Going fast allows him more time at the line of scrimmage so he can see things, and we can communicate up until the time....."   Talked about how uptempo prevents defensive substitutions and they were able to catch the Dolphins with 12 men a couple of times and run a quick sneak. 

 

Was asked about the move upstairs and said it was something he talked about with Sean, "you can see some things up top...I give credit to the players".  Was asked how communication with Josh differed and he said "the same....the same....the only thing different is in between series I need to talk to him on the phone"  He was asked if Josh went to the sidelines and called him immediately and he said "no, no (sounded a little indignant)...just if I need to talk to him about something I see, or if I want to ask him about the flow, do you still feel good about the uptempo, can you see what you need to see....."

 

Later in the presser he was asked again about the timing of communication cutoff: "The no-huddle, I would say you have some time to communicate, if you need to communicate. .....and I think you want to be smart about that, I don't think you want to be in the guy's ear the whole time....HE (emphasis his) has to play...like I've said, we have a lot of confidence in him.  He has liberty to get to a lot of things, and if there's something I see upstairs and I can tell him, without question that's what we'll do"

 

I interpret this to mean that Daboll does not intend to be calling the protections for Josh on every play (or necessarily running no huddle every week), but that he values the clearer picture he gets from above in calling plays, and wants the ability to share what he sees on occasion if they are running no-huddle and there is time.  The impression I got was that actually he disapproves of the idea of the coach calling the initial check on the defense on every play, but he does want the ability to weigh in if he sees something.

 

I have the impression that McDermott wanted Daboll to get upstairs in the hope he could see more and make quicker adjustments, get the play calls in quickly, and better address/avoid whatever "operational issue" caused them to huddle with the clock running at the end of the Browns game, and that Daboll wasn't thrilled initially but felt it worked out OK so they'll keep doing it.  And yes, if he'll sees something, he'll say something, but that he feels that's not a good idea to be "in the guy's ear the whole time"

[3rdand12]

1 hour ago, TroutDog said:

Here’s an option: let Josh develop in the trajectory you expected him to. I’d prefer no Bellicheat theatrics in this organization. Can it help with a single win against an inferior opponent? Sure! But that’s not the point with Josh. 
 

Everyone has to be thinking about the long game (a golf reference for the uninitiated)...next year and beyond. 

 have been talking this point with friends for a couple weeks now.
and the" long game " is not lost on me. even though i was never good at golf.
 folks need to keep in mind two words

Raw

 Talent

=Josh

patience from me , and the rest of us Fans is certainly not wasted this time around. Josh and John Brown are still getting to know each other : )

32 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

From up top there is a much better view of the field than from the sideline.

pros and cons eh ?
recall when little Nate went upstairs ?
 

seems to have worked for Bills on Sunday though. Having the correct communicators both to and for are super key to being effective. any internet lag screws the pooch  lol!

[Meatloaf63]

1 hour ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

Except I’m pretty sure McDaniels/Patsies have been doing this for years too. 

 

Part of spygate was an allegation they were feeding defensive signals to Brady real-time over an unassigned radio frequency up to the snap. 

 

Im sure they were doing all of the other stuff too. 

 

Few people know about this, they were operating several  radio frequencies, never got punished for it. The nfl was probably embarrassed at the depth of the New England treachery they let occur.

[atlbillsfan1975]

1 hour ago, r00tabaga said:

You have until 15 seconds....

Do you contribute anything of any substance to any thread?

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

2 hours ago, HappyDays said:

This is an interesting theory. Basically the same thing McVay was doing for Goff.

whatever it was 

 

KEEP IT UP 

 

? 

[VW82]

I said at the beginning of the year that we should be doing this, at least until Josh has a better idea of what he's doing at the line. If nothing else it puts tape out there of Josh making correct pre-snap reads. It also confirms to him that he's seeing what he's seeing in real time, and if not immediately correcting it. He'll have to drop the crutch eventually but right now training wheels are probably still appropriate.  

Edited November 19, 2019 by VW82

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 hour ago, Pokebball said:

Josh was asked about Daboll being upstairs in his post game yesterday.  He jokingly said there were a couple of times he stepped up for the snap and looked to Daboll on the sidelines and couldn't find him, then remembered he was up stairs.  I don't think Daboll was talking to him.

He better be, that's his job. Allen did seem to make some quicker decisions. Many people have called for Daboll to be in the booth. I never really cared but it is a tool that many teams utilize. 

Edited November 19, 2019 by Buffalo_Stampede

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Pokebball said:

Josh was asked about Daboll being upstairs in his post game yesterday.  He jokingly said there were a couple of times he stepped up for the snap and looked to Daboll on the sidelines and couldn't find him, then remembered he was up stairs.  I don't think Daboll was talking to him.

 

I think the context was there was a play he didn't capture and he wanted a rewind, and didn't know where to look.  He made a hand gesture up by his ear as he said it, like turning a crank backwards, so evidently Daboll got the message and it worked out fine

[Coach Tuesday]

2 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Realistically I hope that isn't the case

 

Mcvay has stunted Goffs growth as a true QB because he has always made the calls for him

 

It's easy to defend against too... Just disguise your coverage until under 15 seconds on the clock

 

You need to be able to see things pre and post snap and be able to recognize them

Good point but a few things in response -

 

I think Goff is holding back Goff - he’s just not very talented.  McVay was propping him up but it’s not like a video game - eventually the QB is supposed to learn to read the coverages himself, the presnap talking should help not hinder - Goff might just be limited.

 

Also isn’t Daboll’s offense supposed to be concept-based?  Josh needs to learn the concepts, even if Daboll is telling him what protections and plays to run on a given down.  From Daboll’s comments it sounds like he gets it.

 

Finally - Josh’s intellect is an underrated part of his game.  If Allen makes it it may end up being as much because of his brain as it is because of his physical abilities.  I guess I’m saying it doesn’t trouble me in the least at this stage in Allen’s career if Daboll is barking things into his mic presnap.