Lamar Jackson: I'll Be Having That Crow Pot Pie Now (edited title)

[nedboy7]

Are people seriously comparing Allen to Lamar?   That’s hilarious.  Lamar is an MVP candidate.  You don’t like his throwing mechanics? LOL! 

[Kiva]

By far the best qb in that draft. Pair him with an amazing coach and you have a franchise qb in year 2. 
 

 

Edited November 18, 2019 by Kiva

[Bing Bong]

2 hours ago, FUTURIST said:

 

Vick was an okay passer.  Same for Jackson.  I am not sure an ok passer can win a Super Bowl though in this new era of football.  The Playoffs are for passers.

Lamar appears to be a much better passer than Vick.. he can hit the slant route with precision. Possibly a better rusher. Vick himself will tell you that. He sure as heck has no comparison to TT I wish we would just put that to rest. Why bother to compare a QB to someone he is better at every facet of the game than? 

 

Of course when Vick's best target has Algae Crumpler for so long i'm not even sure Vick was any bad of a passer himself. And he made a SB (I think with Algae) Seriously.. imagine Algae Crumpler being the only guy worth targeting in an offense. Philly Vick was probably just Vick and the first offense he played on worth a hill of beans. He had a hell of an arm and zero guys who were a deep threat.

27 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

Are people seriously comparing Allen to Lamar?   That’s hilarious.  Lamar is an MVP candidate.  You don’t like his throwing mechanics? LOL! 

TT is an even worse comparison ? comparison ends at "2 black quarterbacks"

Edited November 19, 2019 by BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P

[Buffalo716]

33 minutes ago, BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P said:

Lamar appears to be a much better passer than Vick.. he can hit the slant route with precision. Possibly a better rusher. Vick himself will tell you that. He sure as heck has no comparison to TT I wish we would just put that to rest. Why bother to compare a QB to someone he is better at every facet of the game than? 

 

Of course when Vick's best target has Algae Crumpler for so long i'm not even sure Vick was any bad of a passer himself. And he made a SB (I think with Algae) Seriously.. imagine Algae Crumpler being the only guy worth targeting in an offense. Philly Vick was probably just Vick and the first offense he played on worth a hill of beans. He had a hell of an arm and zero guys who were a deep threat.

TT is an even worse comparison ? comparison ends at "2 black quarterbacks"

I don't believe Vick made a SB

[Mr. WEO]

3 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/198901080cin.htm

 

that was after 2 minutes of research.  Plenty of other young qbs had really bad playoff games.  

 

You wasted 2 minutes then.  I didn't claim other young QBs haven't had bad playoff games.  I said his first 3 Qs were unprecedented.

 

Kelly threw a TD and they kicked a FG in the 2nd Q to stay within 4 of Cincy.

 

Jackson was 2 for 8 and 17 yards by the half.  He fumbled twice in the first 7 plays.  He led them to 69 yards in the first half.  In the 3rd Q, Ravens D got a fumble recovery at the Chargers 21 yard line and they had to settle for a FG.  He was sacked 7 times and fumbled 3 times and had an INT. 

 

 

[LSHMEAB]

10 hours ago, H2o said:

While I don't think Lamar would be AS successful if he had not landed exactly where he did, I still think the talent would show through. The young man is electric out there. 

This is pretty much the go to logic behind why a QB the Bills passed on is succeeding; "he's in a good system."

 

Which itself begs the question, why is our offensive coaching staff incapable of bringing out the best in a QB?

 

At any rate, I like the 180 "approach" towards Allen by the staff and I'm hoping for good things. 

[Elite Poster]

7 hours ago, SlimShady'sGhost said:

 

Nope  I'm done.  

 

 

Nate Peterman. 

 

 

Yeah, exactly. His bum ass was in there due to injury. You can't actually have this debate so just take your schtick somewhere else. Lamar is a front runner for mvp, the kid can play, you need to see an eye doctor. 

[HappyDays]

I feel really dumb about Lamar Jackson. At one point he was my #1 QB in that draft and then I bought into the stupid wonderlic thing. Live and learn.

 

Who knows if it will last, but as long as he can be the best athlete on the field he will be a nightmare to defend.

[Saxum]

14 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

The thing about Lamar Jackson is that his talent is several levels up over Kaepernick or Tyrod Taylor.  It also appears, his desire to succeed is several levels up.  From how he has changed 1st to 2nd year, he is absolutely FIERCE about self improvement.

 

Remember when people were raggin' on LJax last year because he had no agent and was being advised by his Mom?  And also for his manner of speaking?  Yeah, look kind of irrelevant now, and he appears to have worked as hard at his press presentation/public speaking as at everything else.

 

Sounds like he would be all in for Coach McD's philosophy.

[Chandler#81]

14 hours ago, Your Brown Eye said:

The Bills passed on Mahomes, Watson and Jackson, that should make any Bills fan blush more than a proctology exam

This is the most tired line of BillsH8ers. Get a new angle.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

6 hours ago, mjt328 said:

From what I've seen, Lamar Jackson is still pretty average/below average as a passer. 

If teams could find a way to force him into playing strictly from the pocket, I believe he would struggle. 

But I'm not sure modern defenses are built in a way that can successfully lock Jackson into the pocket.

 

Right now, you see Baltimore running lots of 3-TE sets.  This creates absolute match-up nightmares.  If defenses don't bring in bigger personnel, they will get trampled by Mark Ingram and Gus Edwards.  If defenses go big, they don't have the speed to catch Jackson.  And Jackson is doing just enough in the passing game to keep them honest in the secondary.

 

I thought Ingram and Edwards were RBs and fast guys.

 

I agree that Baltimore makes a lot of use of their TE in the passing game.  In part they have the "it's always open 2 feet over his head" thing going down

 

I don't know how we match up against them defensively.  The Chiefs and the Browns both beat them by scoring >30 points.  40 points in the case of the Browns.

[NickelCity]

I wasn't lobbying to draft him, but I did think he'd have the most early success among QBs, and said as much. One of the rare things I've called accurately lol.

 

Be interesting to see his longevity. Very interesting stats about TEs and the middle of the field, too. Good thread.

[Big Blitz]

It was Allen or Jackson for me and I couldn't care less how well he's running the ball for that team.  It's got nothing to do with my team.    

 

And I'm going to say the same thing about him I will Allen.  Baltimore has a QB to build around.  Just like Buffalo.  I'd prefer Allen.  He's doing more with much less.  And I don't think what Jackson is doing is sustainable.  Not sure he has the passing skill set   

 

I think our guy is going to be good for 15 years and I think Lamar it wouldn't surprise me if in 5 years he's fighting to keep his job due to various injury.  .  That oline is so good.  The RBs.....fantastic.  Perfect situation for him right now.  Defenses built to stop the pass suddenly have to stop triple option and some smashmouth mixed in.   Advantage Baltimore.  

[Scott7975]

I'm not sold on him yet.  I know that's against the grain around here but I don't care.  Jackson is in a perfect system that was built for him.  What they did in Baltimore is pretty unprecedented.  I will say that he is playing better than I expected, but it's still the system that plays to his strengths as an athlete.  Jackson takes off running and people around here drool.  Allen takes off running and people are talking about how he is going to get killed and he needs to stop running and just throw the damn ball.

 

People around here bash Allen because he doesn't have a 300 yard game and are sitting here praising Jackson as a passing MVP candidate.  Jackson has one 300 yard game and over all 83 more yards than Allen as a passer.  Jackson has also had bad games just like Josh but no one talks about those.

 

Do this again next year and maybe I will be sold.

[billsbackto81]

2 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

It was Allen or Jackson for me and I couldn't care less how well he's running the ball for that team.  It's got nothing to do with my team.    

 

And I'm going to say the same thing about him I will Allen.  Baltimore has a QB to build around.  Just like Buffalo.  I'd prefer Allen.  He's doing more with much less.  And I don't think what Jackson is doing is sustainable.  Not sure he has the passing skill set   

 

I think our guy is going to be good for 15 years and I think Lamar it wouldn't surprise me if in 5 years he's fighting to keep his job due to various injury.  .  That oline is so good.  The RBs.....fantastic.  Perfect situation for him right now.  Defenses built to stop the pass suddenly have to stop triple option and some smashmouth mixed in.   Advantage Baltimore.  

Agreed.

I feel Jackson like Mahomes ended up on the perfect team for them, talent wise and coach wise. Jackson has Ingram and Edwards,  Josh has a promising rookie and glue factory ready horse. Jackson has a Top O-line and Josh has a serviceable patchwork of players. Jackson has a SB winning HC and an OC that is perfect for the players they've assembled. Josh has a conservative, clap happy  defensive minded culture guru and an OC that can't game plan around the players he has. Keep everything the same and switch QBs and you might find the results to be eerily similar.

 

That fact that Josh is doing what he is with the talent around him as he works through his shortcomings and still be 7-3 is quite impressive. But by all means lets keep praising the guy that crapped the bed last year once the bright lights came on. 

[simpleman]

20 hours ago, H2o said:

In the same light that I can see the growth in Allen and believe he is a special player, I can no longer deny the fact that Lamar Jackson is a special talent at the QB position either. Yes, he has a great coaching staff from top to bottom that has tailor made the offense around him. Yes, he has a good/great defense to back him up. Yes, he has had some rough patches in the same manner as Josh throwing the ball. But again I watch him yesterday against the Texans and the young man does not disappoint. I keep thinking he will falter, but on the biggest stage he always seems up to the task. He is surely not just another system product ala Kaepernick or Tyrod with Roman at the helm. He can do things on the field that we haven't seen in this league since Michael Vick in his early days with the Falcons and when he is on throwing the ball, he is on. Even on the days he may be off throwing the football he can still beat you with his legs like he did the Seahawks or the Patriots. People keep hyping all of these other match-ups as the next Brady/Manning like Mahomes/Jackson or Watson/Jackson, but I can see the battle being Allen/Jackson for years to come. Hopefully his style of play doesn't lead to injury and it remains to be seen whether this style is also sustainable at this level, but right now he is one of my favorite players to watch in the NFL outside of the Bills every week. 

This is why he has had such great success so soon. He would have been an epic fail if he had been drafted by McBeane.

 

 There are two types of GMs and HCs. Those that evaluate the talent they have, and then design schemes to best fit the talent they have. And those that have huge egos who try to make talent fit the grand schemes they have on their heads. They try to pound square pegs in round holes, and if they don't fit,  they discard the square pegs no matter the cost to the team. McBeane is very much the big ego. It is about their "grand process" and "their own hand picked guys". Although not as bad as Rex, who is the ultimate "big brilliant ego". You fit their scheme, or else you are gone at whatever the cost. The "Process" is unforgiving and highly inflexible. It may succeed, but it will take multiple seasons to be able to acquire the talent that fits "The Process".

 

 Lamar was selected by a team that believed that you evaluate the talent you have, and design a scheme to best fit it without blowing up the team you have. You don't wait years to fulfill "the grand process" and make your fans suffer  years of subpar football, you win now and provide entertaining football while building for the future. The team evolves and grows as you add new and better pieces without blowing it up and starting over. Success can be achieved quicker. You don't  mold a whole roster of  50+ players to fit the arbitrary  scheme, you mold the scheme to allow the talent available to best succeed . It is flexible.

Edited November 19, 2019 by simpleman

[GreggTX]

Lamar Jackson looks to be the best QB from his class. Josh isn't even close, at least not yet.

[Mikey152]

18 hours ago, starrymessenger said:

 

Just curious, but if he lacks (for now) Allen's laser on out patterns, would that middle of the field soft zone coverage we are often in play to his strengths as a passer? 

 

No.

 

Here's the deal...if you want to stop Baltimore, the key is being able to stop Ingram with 5, 6 or 7 DBs on the field.  The more DBs you have out there, the more speed AND the more zone you can play, which has two benefits...players play more facing and reading the QB so they can account for the run and they can attack the football when it is in the air.

 

The Bills match up well because their two best LBs are very fast and better in coverage, so they can play nickel and still get the speed boost.  On top of that, they are a zone team by default that is used to playing team defense.

Edited November 19, 2019 by Mikey152

[bigduke6]

eventually defensive coaches will figure Jackson out.  just like they figured Vick out.   tbh,  Jackson sitll doesnt scare me as a passer.   he hasnt played well for a large amount of time.   its entirely possible he will be a very good QB for a long time.  its also very possible he goes the way that Vick did.     time will tell.    talking about whether or not people made mistakes or missed on drafting a player with so little starts,  is,  pointless.   nobody knows.

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

You don’t have to be completely sold on him to be wrong. He’s clearly an NFL QB at least. 

 

There’s one poster on here who constantly calls out other posters. He made an entire call-out thread last season around this time when Mike Schoop said the jury is out on who is the better passer Jackson or Allen. Schoop never said Jackson is better than Allen, just that we don’t know yet. 

 

This poster called Schoop a douche bag for saying that. Not for anything else which may be deserved. 

 

Anyway, that poster is strangely missing from this thread. I’m not gonna call him out by name but most of you know who I’m talking about.