Lamar Jackson: I'll Be Having That Crow Pot Pie Now (edited title)

[blacklabel]

The way this thread is titled made me think that Jackson himself said he was gonna be having this crow pot pie...ew...

 

I wasn't sure if his style of play would translate well to the pros but he landed in a really good situation where they've designed the offense around his skill set. I think there's still some inconsistency there for him as a passer, it seems like he's red hot or kinda meh. 

 

I will tell Mark Ingram to settle the hell down, though. Yeesh. For me, right now, Russell Wilson is the MVP for his pure quarterback play. He has the ability to run as well but it's a last resort for him. He's had all of two games this season where he's had a passer rating under 100. In fact, his and Jackson's worst games this season came when they played each other. But yeah, it's Wilson for me right now. Some of the throws he's made this year are insane. Plus, he doesn't have the collection of backs/receivers/tight ends that Jackson has, and he has the less talented OL as well as a defense that gives up more points a game (25.4 a game to 19.6 for Baltimore). So, he's doing more with less and he's playing at a ridiculously high level.

[C.Biscuit97]

4 minutes ago, SlimShady'sGhost said:

 

Why don't you concentrate on the TOPIC and not focus on me.  

 

Can you do that?  I'm sure the Mods would appreciate it. 

 I don’t care about you.  You are just coming across really petty in this thread. It’s all good. Enjoy your day. 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

3 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Is this what we’ve resorted to? Grasping at straws to validate your pre-draft analysis? The guy is a legit MVP candidate at this point and you want to talk about his wondering score?!? Seriously???

 

Not really

 

[Mikey152]

People are skeptical on Jackson for a very simple reason:

 

Vick

Young

Kaepernick

Tebow

RGIII

even Newton

 

All of these guys were running quarterbacks with either questionable arm strength, accuracy, or smarts...maybe all three.  All of them looked great early in basic, run-oriented offenses.  They all hit a wall.  Maybe he winds up as a Wilson or Watson...it's possible, I guess, but both of those guys look natural throwing the football.  

 

Sometimes there are quarterbacks who are great athletes...and sometimes there are great athletes who play quarterback.  Early in a career, it's hard to tell the difference

 

 

[BITE ME]

The NFL will figure out Jackson and make him pass. It is just a matter of time.  The real flaw with Jackson and Josh Allen types is teams will start hitting them and punishing them. It is coming. 

 

When the playoffs start Jackson and Allen (if he gets there) will live or die via the pass. Not overly bullish on either putting together a few playoff wins in a row. They are going to be punished in the playoffs.  The speed of defenses gets A LOT faster.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

23 minutes ago, syhuang said:

 

 

 

Agenda's  The Not the Right Josh crowd needs to feel good.  

 

I posted the stat and I got no feedback wither 

 

Since Week 7, no one in the NFL has more total touchdowns (12) than @JoshAllenQB

[BITE ME]

6 hours ago, Gordio said:

L Jackson is Greg Roman's dream QB.  He has everything in his arsenal that Roman wants in a QB.  It is a perfect match.  L Jackson is like Mike Vick on steroids.  yes he is that talented.  The people that compare him to T Taylor that is funny.  Taylor has never had the skill set like LJ.  Not even close.  

 

Tyrod was not very good.  Jackson is no more talented than Michael Vick. Vick was a super talent.  The difference is defenses can't hit quarterbacks any longer so they can survive a season of scrambling.  Just a couple years ago Jackson would be beaten into the ground every time he ran. The playoffs will be different. Defenses get a lot faster and referees let defenses hit quarterbacks.  Guys like Jackson and even Josh Allen will think twice about running when the playoffs start.  It is a different sport in January.

[Mr. WEO]

51 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

You’re right. But it was insane how reacted to a rookie starting his first playoff game. I bet there are a bunch of great qbs who struggled in their first playoff starts.  

 

His first 3 quarters were unprecedented, so I disagree.

[Gordio]

Just now, FUTURIST said:

 

Tyrod was not very good.  Jackson is no more talented than Michael Vick. Vick was a super talent.  The difference is defenses can't hit quarterbacks any longer so they can survive a season of scrambling.  Just a couple years ago Jackson would be beaten into the ground every time he ran. The playoffs will be different. Defenses get a lot faster and referees let defenses hit quarterbacks.  Guys like Jackson and even Josh Allen will think twice about running when the playoffs start.  It is a different sport in January.

 

 

I think Jackson is more talented than Vick.  He is a much better passer.  

[starrymessenger]

17 minutes ago, Mikey152 said:

People are skeptical on Jackson for a very simple reason:

 

Vick

Young

Kaepernick

Tebow

RGIII

even Newton

 

All of these guys were running quarterbacks with either questionable arm strength, accuracy, or smarts...maybe all three.  All of them looked great early in basic, run-oriented offenses.  They all hit a wall.  Maybe he winds up as a Wilson or Watson...it's possible, I guess, but both of those guys look natural throwing the football.  

 

Sometimes there are quarterbacks who are great athletes...and sometimes there are great athletes who play quarterback.  Early in a career, it's hard to tell the difference

 

 

 

Jackson looks natural throwing the football. To me anyway.

[TigerJ]

I've said before Lamar Jackson is the perfect QB for Greg Roman's offensive scheme, and Greg Roman is the perfect offensive coordinator for Lamar Jackson.  I suspect it would be hard for Lamar Jackson to duplicate his success with a different coordinator and a different system.  I'm almost sure he would struggle adapting to Daboll's system.  It's questionable whether or not Daboll would be able to adapt his scheme to accommodate Jackson.   If we really want Lamar Jackson, however, we could draft him next spring.  He's a draft eligible cornerback for Nebraska and he's actually about the same size as the QB.  He's pretty good too.

[C.Biscuit97]

8 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

His first 3 quarters were unprecedented, so I disagree.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/198901080cin.htm

 

that was after 2 minutes of research.  Plenty of other young qbs had really bad playoff games.  

[Mikey152]

16 minutes ago, starrymessenger said:

 

Jackson looks natural throwing the football. To me anyway.

 

He's very upright, with a very narrow base, and he doesn't clear his hips well...His arm is where most of his power comes from.  He has clean arm mechanics when he throws in front of him, but his arm gets sort of whippy when he throws to the sideline...because his hips are stiff due to the narrow base.

 

To me it looks like a good athlete who is always ready to run playing QB...his arm is good and his upper body mechanics are good, but he looks disconnected from his lower body, so you see nicely spun and touch throws, but no real driving, power throws.

[starrymessenger]

7 minutes ago, Mikey152 said:

 

He's very upright, with a very narrow base, and he doesn't clear his hips well...His arm is where most of his power comes from.  He has clean arm mechanics when he throws in front of him, but his arm gets sort of whippy when he throws to the sideline...because his hips are stiff due to the narrow base.

 

To me it looks like a good athlete who is always ready to run playing QB...his arm is good and his upper body mechanics are good, but he looks disconnected from his lower body, so you see nicely spun and touch throws, but no real driving, power throws.

 

Agree. You no doubt recall the pre-draft commentary about this mechanical flaw. The analysts who liked him seemed pretty sure this (the narrow base) was correctable and minor as flaws go. I recall other analysts making similar comments regarding the lack of rotation in Allen's hips when following through his throwing motion (in addition to other issues). I haven't seen much of Lamar this year. Sounds from your comment that he still has work to do. 

Edited November 18, 2019 by starrymessenger

[H2o]

1 hour ago, syhuang said:

 

 

Josh gets the Buffalo stigma. There always has to be some extenuating circumstance that explains the anomaly of his god day or they want to point out what happened at previous points to rationalize why it shouldn't be taken into account. Just the way it is for now.  

[Mikey152]

1 minute ago, starrymessenger said:

 

Agree. You no doubt recall the pre-draft commentary about this mechanical flaw. The analysts who liked him seemed pretty sure this was correctable and minor as flaws go. I recall other analysts making similar comments regarding the lack of rotation in Allen's hips when following through his throwing motion (in addition to other issues). I haven't seen much of Lamar this year. Sounds from your comment that he still has work to do. 

 

I will say this about him...he is an incredible athlete.  He clearly has a strong, whip-like arm.  But I have real doubts that he can drive a football to the sideline...if he completes a deep out it will be because the defense was soft and his release is lightning quick.

 

that said, he doesn't need all the traditional tools in his toolbox right now, because he has other ones that most guys don't have...and on top of that he has some nice touch and natural ability when it comes to placing a football.  

 

Not gonna lie, though...I don't think he matches up well against the Bills defense.    

[BITE ME]

1 hour ago, Gordio said:

 

 

I think Jackson is more talented than Vick.  He is a much better passer.  

 

Vick was an okay passer.  Same for Jackson.  I am not sure an ok passer can win a Super Bowl though in this new era of football.  The Playoffs are for passers.

[mjt328]

From what I've seen, Lamar Jackson is still pretty average/below average as a passer. 

If teams could find a way to force him into playing strictly from the pocket, I believe he would struggle. 

But I'm not sure modern defenses are built in a way that can successfully lock Jackson into the pocket.

 

Right now, you see Baltimore running lots of 3-TE sets.  This creates absolute match-up nightmares.  If defenses don't bring in bigger personnel, they will get trampled by Mark Ingram and Gus Edwards.  If defenses go big, they don't have the speed to catch Jackson.  And Jackson is doing just enough in the passing game to keep them honest in the secondary.

 

To me, this is a tremendous credit to Greg Roman and the Baltimore coaching staff.  They have completely restructured their offense to fit his talents, in ways that I've never seen on the professional level.  This usually doesn't happen with athletic/running QBs.  I remember when Michael Vick was drafted, and he was supposed to "change the game" of football.  Atlanta forced him into a West Coast system that didn't fit his skills, and he never truly reached his potential.

 

Will defenses eventually adjust - either this season or long-term?  It's really hard to say.

 

 

38 minutes ago, Mikey152 said:

Not gonna lie, though...I don't think he matches up well against the Bills defense.    

 

They way Baltimore is rolling, I'm not sure anyone's defense matches up well.

 

 

[starrymessenger]

38 minutes ago, Mikey152 said:

 

I will say this about him...he is an incredible athlete.  He clearly has a strong, whip-like arm.  But I have real doubts that he can drive a football to the sideline...if he completes a deep out it will be because the defense was soft and his release is lightning quick.

 

that said, he doesn't need all the traditional tools in his toolbox right now, because he has other ones that most guys don't have...and on top of that he has some nice touch and natural ability when it comes to placing a football.  

 

Not gonna lie, though...I don't think he matches up well against the Bills defense.    

 

Just curious, but if he lacks (for now) Allen's laser on out patterns, would that middle of the field soft zone coverage we are often in play to his strengths as a passer? 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

2 hours ago, H2o said:

Josh gets the Buffalo stigma. There always has to be some extenuating circumstance that explains the anomaly of his god day or they want to point out what happened at previous points to rationalize why it shouldn't be taken into account. Just the way it is for now.  

let people get sucked into the Lamar love. 
 

Since week 7 Josh has been the best QB in TDs and fantasy points.