Lamar Jackson: I'll Be Having That Crow Pot Pie Now (edited title)

[H2o]

In the same light that I can see the growth in Allen and believe he is a special player, I can no longer deny the fact that Lamar Jackson is a special talent at the QB position either. Yes, he has a great coaching staff from top to bottom that has tailor made the offense around him. Yes, he has a good/great defense to back him up. Yes, he has had some rough patches in the same manner as Josh throwing the ball. But again I watch him yesterday against the Texans and the young man does not disappoint. I keep thinking he will falter, but on the biggest stage he always seems up to the task. He is surely not just another system product ala Kaepernick or Tyrod with Roman at the helm. He can do things on the field that we haven't seen in this league since Michael Vick in his early days with the Falcons and when he is on throwing the ball, he is on. Even on the days he may be off throwing the football he can still beat you with his legs like he did the Seahawks or the Patriots. People keep hyping all of these other match-ups as the next Brady/Manning like Mahomes/Jackson or Watson/Jackson, but I can see the battle being Allen/Jackson for years to come. Hopefully his style of play doesn't lead to injury and it remains to be seen whether this style is also sustainable at this level, but right now he is one of my favorite players to watch in the NFL outside of the Bills every week. 

[plenzmd1]

So, I wanted the Bulls to stay put at 12 and draft Lamar and keep their picks. 

 

Then last year happened, and I was thrilled we had Allen and not Lamar, and through 4 games this year still thought Allen was the better player.  

 

 

I have changed my mind again, he is spectacular!

[Chandler#81]

Coming right up!

 

[Big Gun]

6 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

So, I wanted the Bulls to stay put at 12 and draft Lamar and keep their picks. 

 

Then last year happened, and I was thrilled we had Allen and not Lamar, and through 4 games this year still thought Allen was the better player.  

 

 

I have changed my mind again, he is spectacular!

The Bills staff would have never geared an offense around Lamars abilities and he would have been highly ineffective. Drafting Lamar would have been a bad decision on McBeans behalf. 

[Dopey]

I had it wrong too. Way better than I thought he would be, especially in his 2nd season. MVP talk in year 2?!? Wow!! Harbaugh has done an excellent job utilizing his skill set.

[H2o]

2 minutes ago, pop gun said:

The Bills staff would have never geared an offense around Lamars abilities and he would have been highly ineffective. Drafting Lamar would have been a bad decision on McBeans behalf. 

While I don't think Lamar would be AS successful if he had not landed exactly where he did, I still think the talent would show through. The young man is electric out there. 

[Mark80]

Jackson was absolutely tremendous at Louisville.  I have no idea why NFL teams didn't see him for the talent he clearly was.  The WR talk was completely ludicrous.  I had him behind Mayfield and Darnold on my list that year, but ahead of Rosen and Allen (who I, admittedly, had last out of the 5).  To me, this was clearly not an RGIII scenario at all.  He was thicker and had more arm talent than RGIII.  I also was hoping the Bills would stand pat and take him (if he was there) with even their second 1st round pick.  Mahomes doesn't disappoint me because I didn't see it from him in college.  With Lamar, I did.  

 

Now, I'm a big Allen fan and am very pleased with what I am seeing trajectory and improvement wise, but I do catch myself wondering "what if..." with Lamar.  Hopefully lots of fun, meaningful battles for years to come. 

Edited November 18, 2019 by Mark80

[MAJBobby]

14 minutes ago, H2o said:

In the same light that I can see the growth in Allen and believe he is a special player, I can no longer deny the fact that Lamar Jackson is a special talent at the QB position either. Yes, he has a great coaching staff from top to bottom that has tailor made the offense around him. Yes, he has a good/great defense to back him up. Yes, he has had some rough patches in the same manner as Josh throwing the ball. But again I watch him yesterday against the Texans and the young man does not disappoint. I keep thinking he will falter, but on the biggest stage he always seems up to the task. He is surely not just another system product ala Kaepernick or Tyrod with Roman at the helm. He can do things on the field that we haven't seen in this league since Michael Vick in his early days with the Falcons and when he is on throwing the ball, he is on. Even on the days he may be off throwing the football he can still beat you with his legs like he did the Seahawks or the Patriots. People keep hyping all of these other match-ups as the next Brady/Manning like Mahomes/Jackson or Watson/Jackson, but I can see the battle being Allen/Jackson for years to come. Hopefully his style of play doesn't lead to injury and it remains to be seen whether this style is also sustainable at this level, but right now he is one of my favorite players to watch in the NFL outside of the Bills every week. 

I always thought Lamar would need one more yeah in College to refine his passing. However if you think about that his Rookie year and Offseason probably is just as if not more effective. I thought there was the skill there in the Draft just thought it would take some time with him. Seems I was pretty close to needing that year to refine his passing. 

[oldmanfan]

You have to hand it to the kid.  He had a lot of detractors coming out of Louisville but he is taking over the league.  It will be very interesting to see what McD and company scheme up to try and stop him.

[C.Biscuit97]

I respect this.  I put Allen and Jackson on the same level coming out. I loved both of the physical talent but I was weird about their limitations as passers.  I’m not as surprised at Jackson because he was pretty damn good in college.  But he looks even better than I thought as a passer.  With Allen, I want to see him have the monster games against NE and other “good” teams.

 

that said, it’s still so early. The key will be how they adjust the more film teams get on them.  But Jackson is a MVP candidate and Allen has shown some improvement.

[r00tabaga]

He has surpassed my expectations as well. Seems like a good kid too.

 

Still glad we got Allen instead. 

 

Seems some are confused.

I think Allen will enjoy a longer career & with more success than Jackson.

Hope that made it easier to understand.

Edited November 21, 2019 by r00tabaga

[Mark80]

4 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

I always thought Lamar would need one more yeah in College to refine his passing. However if you think about that his Rookie year and Offseason probably is just as if not more effective. I thought there was the skill there in the Draft just thought it would take some time with him. Seems I was pretty close to needing that year to refine his passing. 

 

Paying attention to him during his run at Louisville you could see enormous strides in his passing mechanics from his Sophomore to Junior years.  Most notably in his footwork.  That was what convinced me he was legit.  I thought that while maybe still not perfect, he showed that he could learn a lot in just one off-season which was impressive to me.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

30 minutes ago, H2o said:

In the same light that I can see the growth in Allen and believe he is a special player, I can no longer deny the fact that Lamar Jackson is a special talent at the QB position either. Yes, he has a great coaching staff from top to bottom that has tailor made the offense around him. Yes, he has a good/great defense to back him up. Yes, he has had some rough patches in the same manner as Josh throwing the ball. But again I watch him yesterday against the Texans and the young man does not disappoint. I keep thinking he will falter, but on the biggest stage he always seems up to the task. He is surely not just another system product ala Kaepernick or Tyrod with Roman at the helm. He can do things on the field that we haven't seen in this league since Michael Vick in his early days with the Falcons and when he is on throwing the ball, he is on. Even on the days he may be off throwing the football he can still beat you with his legs like he did the Seahawks or the Patriots. People keep hyping all of these other match-ups as the next Brady/Manning like Mahomes/Jackson or Watson/Jackson, but I can see the battle being Allen/Jackson for years to come. Hopefully his style of play doesn't lead to injury and it remains to be seen whether this style is also sustainable at this level, but right now he is one of my favorite players to watch in the NFL outside of the Bills every week. 

 

I would put it a little differently.  Right now, Lamar Jackson absolutely IS a system QB.  If he were playing in Daboll's offense, or in Green Bay or Cleveland, he'd be "showing flashes" and struggling much more.

 

But a lot of great QB actually are system QB.  I don't think Brady or Wilson would have been as successful in just any system for just any coach earlier in their careers.  Then there's Foles

 

The thing about Lamar Jackson is that his talent is several levels up over Kaepernick or Tyrod Taylor.  It also appears, his desire to succeed is several levels up.  From how he has changed 1st to 2nd year, he is absolutely FIERCE about self improvement.

 

Remember when people were raggin' on LJax last year because he had no agent and was being advised by his Mom?  And also for his manner of speaking?  Yeah, look kind of irrelevant now, and he appears to have worked as hard at his press presentation/public speaking as at everything else.

 

And oh yeah his Mom?  Supposedly she still gives him an earful, right after every game.  If his head starts to swell, no worries: Mama Jackson right there with a pin.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

But but  Strength of Schedule!!!  

 

And he lost to Cleveland 

[Warren Zevon]

Just now, SlimShady'sGhost said:

But but  Strength of Schedule!!!  

 

And he lost to Cleveland 

 

1-0 versus the Cheats

[ALF]

31 teams passed on him in rd 1 . He would not run the 40 at the combine because he wanted to be a QB. He was drafted for  the perfect coaching staff for his ability. What a great story for a very good guy.

[thenorthremembers]

14 minutes ago, Mark80 said:

Jackson was absolutely tremendous at Louisville.  I have no idea why NFL teams didn't see him for the talent he clearly was.  The WR talk was completely ludicrous.  I had him behind Mayfield and Darnold on my list that year, but ahead of Rosen and Allen (who I, admittedly, had last out of the 5).  To me, this was clearly not an RGIII scenario at all.  He was thicker and had more arm talent than RGIII.  I also was hoping the Bills would stand pat and take him (if he was there) with even their second 1st round pick.  Mahomes doesn't disappoint me because I didn't see it from him in college.  With Lamar, I did.  

 

Now, I'm a big Allen fan and am very pleased with what I am seeing trajectory and improvement wise, but I do catch myself wondering "what if..." with Lamar.  Hopefully lots of fun, meaningful battles for years to come. 

Because despite his arm talent he didnt make NFL throws in college.   Teams knew they would have to design the offense 100% around his shortcomings. He's an amazing talent, but he also doesnt throw to wideouts.   He is very good at throwing to the middle of the field to wide open tight ends.   He was good down the seam in college too.  But if you watched his games he had major problems when trying to make typical NFL throws.  He was also smallish which I am sure worried teams about injury. 

 

Three of the top five receiving leaders on that team are tight ends.  He has trouble getting the ball to wideouts, their top wideout is on pace of 42 catches and 760 yards.   I dont know if that matters now, but I still think teams will adjust to that and make him throw outside the hashes at some point.   Right now the Ravens are doing a hell of a job with him.    He reminded me a ton of Tyrod coming into the league.   He looks incredible right now, but its a marathon not a sprint.

[Mark80]

1 minute ago, thenorthremembers said:

Because despite his arm talent he didnt make NFL throws in college.   Teams knew they would have to design the offense 100% around his shortcomings. He's an amazing talent, but he also doesnt throw to wideouts.   He is very good at throwing to the middle of the field to wide open tight ends.   He was good down the seam in college too.  But if you watched his games he had major problems when trying to make typical NFL throws.  He was also smallish which I am sure worried teams about injury. 

 

Three of the top five receiving leaders on that team are tight ends.  He has trouble getting the ball to wideouts, their top wideout is on pace of 42 catches and 760 yards.   I dont know if that matters now, but I still think teams will adjust to that and make him throw outside the hashes at some point.   Right now the Ravens are doing a hell of a job with him.    He reminded me a ton of Tyrod coming into the league.   He looks incredible right now, but its a marathon not a sprint.

 

Fair point I didn't consider.  Thinking back I can definitely understand what you are saying.  Louisville's big throw plays were mostly in the middle of the field for sure.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

He has been impressive. I still think he'll have adjustments that will need to be made because you know...defensive coordinators will eventually wise up and put a different challenge in front of him. Much rather have him than guys like Trubisky, Goff etc. though.

[Your Brown Eye]

The Bills passed on Mahomes, Watson and Jackson, that should make any Bills fan blush more than a proctology exam