Can the Detractors Now Admit Allen's Growth?

[H2o]

14 hours ago, BigDingus said:

The fact you had to wait until 11 weeks into the season to be able to post this speaks volumes.

Yes, "detractors" (aka people who are just discussing what they've seen each week) can admit he had a very good game. 

So did Sam Darnold. Here's his stat line:

19/30 for 293 yards, 4 TD's & 1 INT, 121.3 rating.

Does one good game mean they've arrived? Allen beating the lowly Dolphins & Darnold beating the lowly Redskins is certainly impressive, but are you able to admit that for 9 other games this season Allen hasn't played a single complete game, that he wasn't able to complete a deep pass to save his life, took a ton of bad sacks, has a fumble problem, disappears for a couple quarters per game, and generally had accuracy problems, missing open targets often?

I don't even disagree that Allen is showing growth, only stating how ridiculous the idea behind this thread is. "HOLY CRAP! Allen beat the DOLPHINS! Ha, told ya! FRANCHISE GUY SUCKAS!" ?

The original post was not based on a single game or performance, but on looking at the season as a whole with what he has been doing. This has also been discussed at other points in time, on this board, with many people making the same asinine posts claiming that Josh hasn't shown improvement. Or they suggest that we, our FO and coaching staff,  need to be in search of a new QB this offseason. Many of the things he gets knocked for were all things that he again proved he could do on Sunday, things he has improved upon from last year to this one. He was calm in the pocket, went to his 2nd and 3rd read, put a lot of passes right on the money so the WR could get YAC, beat the blitz on a number of occasions getting the ball out to the CORRECT hot read, used his legs when the opportunity presented itself, and he didn't throw an INT for the 5th straight game. He has completely flipped his TD/INT ratio the last 6 weeks. If he had not had this type of performance ALL of the Nancy's, not just the ones only in this thread, would have been out in full force even if we won under different circumstances. NO ONE is saying he has arrived and is now a top tier, elite QB. But if you continue to deny that he hasn't shown improvement from rookie year until now, then it is fairly obvious you are either willfully oblivious or have an agenda. 

 

PS - Darnold and the Jets were one of the teams the Dolphins had beaten during their 2 game winning streak prior to Sunday. 

Edited November 19, 2019 by H2o

[DrDawkinstein]

1 hour ago, H2o said:

The original post was not based on a single game or performance, but on looking at the season as a whole with what he has been doing. This has also been discussed at other points in time, on this board, with many people making the same asinine posts claiming that Josh hasn't shown improvement. Or they suggest that we, our FO and coaching staff,  need to be in search of a new QB this offseason. Many of the things he gets knocked for were all things that he again proved he could do on Sunday, things he has improved upon from last year to this one. He was calm in the pocket, went to his 2nd and 3rd read, put a lot of passes right on the money so the WR could get YAC, beat the blitz on a number of occasions getting the ball out to the CORRECT hot read, used his legs when the opportunity presented itself, and he didn't throw an INT for the 5th straight game. He has completely flipped his TD/INT ratio the last 6 weeks. If he had not had this type of performance ALL of the Nancy's, not just the ones only in this thread, would have been out in full force even if we won under different circumstances. NO ONE is saying he has arrived and is now a top tier, elite QB. But if you continue to deny that he hasn't shown improvement from rookie year until now, then it is fairly obvious you are either willfully oblivious or have an agenda. 

 

PS - Darnold and the Jets were one of the teams the Dolphins had beaten during their 2 game winning streak prior to Sunday. 

 

So the 15 page answer to your original question in the title is... NO, they will not admit to anything.

[whatdrought]

14 hours ago, Kiva said:

He has to play smarter, consistently and not play immature and scared. Sunday was his first game he didn’t look petrified out there. 
 

Like I stated before, I’m still on the fence with Josh. He was supposed to improve tremendously this year and has regressed. I need to see consistency. 

 

Woah. It's not every day you get to see a wild moron spouting horrible takes in it's natural habitat! 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Here's Allen's chance to shut up his critics. Let's see this so called improvement. So far vs talented teams or good pass defenses he's failed.

 

Denver - 5th ranked passing defense 

 

Dallas - Division leader on the road, 7th ranked pass defense 

 

Baltimore - Possibly best team in football, improved Pass defense after Marcus Peters trade

 

Pittsburgh - 9th ranked passing defense, great pass rush, on the road.

 

NE - We all know them. 2nd ranked pass defense.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ngbills]

1 hour ago, H2o said:

The original post was not based on a single game or performance, but on looking at the season as a whole with what he has been doing. This has also been discussed at other points in time, on this board, with many people making the same asinine posts claiming that Josh hasn't shown improvement. Or they suggest that we, our FO and coaching staff,  need to be in search of a new QB this offseason. Many of the things he gets knocked for were all things that he again proved he could do on Sunday, things he has improved upon from last year to this one. He was calm in the pocket, went to his 2nd and 3rd read, put a lot of passes right on the money so the WR could get YAC, beat the blitz on a number of occasions getting the ball out to the CORRECT hot read, used his legs when the opportunity presented itself, and he didn't throw an INT for the 5th straight game. He has completely flipped his TD/INT ratio the last 6 weeks. If he had not had this type of performance ALL of the Nancy's, not just the ones only in this thread, would have been out in full force even if we won under different circumstances. NO ONE is saying he has arrived and is now a top tier, elite QB. But if you continue to deny that he hasn't shown improvement from rookie year until now, then it is fairly obvious you are either willfully oblivious or have an agenda. 

 

PS - Darnold and the Jets were one of the teams the Dolphins had beaten during their 2 game winning streak prior to Sunday. 

Well the title does include the word "now". That would make most people think after this game. Just saying...

 

So much of this improve talk is subjective. He has a bad game and its but he looked better in pocket. He has a good game and its but he missed this pass. 

 

I will keep saying this. He is still having a ton of ups and towns. Some weeks the trend line looks up. Some weeks it looks down. The good news in my mind is he has not proven himself to be awful. The bad news is he has not proven himself to be destined to greatness. He could be a middle of the road guy. We are going to wait and see. The disappointment for many is that he was a top 10 pick and we are seeing a lot of other guys play great. Just got to wait this one out a bit. 

[SeattleBills]

13 hours ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

Nah. Screw patience. I’m enjoying the ride, albeit with occasional bouts of motion sickness.  I’m spending my money on Bills tickets, Sunday Ticket, and some gear.  I see improvement, that’s all I really care about. 

Am sure this is what Chiefs, Texans, and Ravens fans are saying as well ??

[Nextmanup]

14 hours ago, Lfod said:

I think some people feel that the team needs to play to thier level of expectations for them to be able to enjoy the season. I think we all have a variety of expectations honestly. 

 

I can admit I was negative about the offense twords Tyrod's last year in Buffalo. Even when people we're still supportive. I do have an understanding of why people are critical. I definitely didn't try to ruin people's experience by being negative every post I made. 

 

People that want to be critical should understand that some of us just want to enjoy the season for what it is. You don't have to be hoping that the team loses before every game so you have one more opportunity to throw negativity around. 

 

We don't need to be reminded after a bad play that you think the team has flaws. You don't need to bring up the easy schedule hundreds of times as a reason you can't enjoy a winning record. 

 

I don't disagree that the team has flaws and plenty of room for improvement. I don't think people have much reason to not enjoy the season. Even in games the Bills win people were calling it a loss.

 

I'm not against the detractors. I just think it would be better if they relaxed a little and enjoy the season because it isn't as bad as they make it out to be. 

Is this forum a place to objectively exchange ideas about the Buffalo Bills?

 

Or is it a booster club designed to offer a "Feel good" experience to the most jaded Bills fan?

 

Those are 2 different things.  I think the problem is that a lot of posters think this place is supposed to be the former, but most think it is supposed to be the latter.

 

Perhaps the moderators can carve out a "Kool Aid" sub forum for those who enjoy living inside an echo chamber and come here looking solely for a "feel good" experience.

 

I would be happy to never go in that sub forum myself.  By the same token, I don't come here to spar with that sort of fan.  I come here to objectively discuss the team with like minded fans.

 

If we had an entire sub forum filled with the sort of poster I prefer, my time here would be much better spent.

 

 

[teef]

1 minute ago, Nextmanup said:

Is this forum a place to objectively exchange ideas about the Buffalo Bills?

 

Or is it a booster club designed to offer a "Feel good" experience to the most jaded Bills fan?

 

Those are 2 different things.  I think the problem is that a lot of posters think this place is supposed to be the former, but most think it is supposed to be the latter.

 

Perhaps the moderators can carve out a "Kool Aid" sub forum for those who enjoy living inside an echo chamber and come here looking solely for a "feel good" experience.

 

I would be happy to never go in that sub forum myself.  By the same token, I don't come here to spar with that sort of fan.  I come here to objectively discuss the team with like minded fans.

 

If we had an entire sub forum filled with the sort of poster I prefer, my time here would be much better spent.

 

 

nonsense.  i know you won't respond, but this is nonsense.  if someone is going to be critical, just back it up.  seems easy...right?  well, heading into the game against miami, you insisted that josh allen sucks, and everyone who doesn't think so just isn't being rational.  you stated josh would be responsible for 3 turnovers in the game, and that the bills would lose.  all wrong.  being wrong is not an issue, but how people approach other members can be.  back up your comments, don't put down other posters, and there won't have to be a "kool aid" subforum.  you want to act like jamoke but don't expect to receive any fall out from it.  try actually engaging people in a normal way.  for a guy who prides himself on his age, you sure post like a bratty kid.

[r00tabaga]

I find it hilarious that the detractors use 4-6 paragraphs instead of just saying "no".

 

L

O

L

Edited November 19, 2019 by r00tabaga

[Chicken Boo]

He's definitely improving but still has a long way to go.  I don't really understand making this thread after facing one of the worst defenses in the NFL.  

 

We're going to see what Allen and this team is really made of from the Pittsburgh game on...you know, the tough part of the schedule.

Edited November 19, 2019 by Chicken Boo

[badassgixxer05]

1 hour ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Here's Allen's chance to shut up his critics. Let's see this so called improvement. So far vs talented teams or good pass defenses he's failed.

 

Denver - 5th ranked passing defense 

 

Dallas - Division leader on the road, 7th ranked pass defense 

 

Baltimore - Possibly best team in football, improved Pass defense after Marcus Peters trade

 

Pittsburgh - 9th ranked passing defense, great pass rush, on the road.

 

NE - We all know them. 2nd ranked pass defense.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hes not ready to throw this team on his back and march us to victory on his own. In all of those games we will still need to play good D and run the football. Allen is still developing, so there most likely wont be any shut up critics moments happening in this stretch. Hes going to make some good plays, some bad plays, win some games, lose some games and be exactly what he was drafted as. In the next couple of years we will know what his ceiling is and if he will or wont prove everyone wrong. 

[r00tabaga]

Longest current streak of no INTs in NFL.

Kid is clutch in the 4th.  Stud in RZone.

Most consecutive games w/2 TD in league.

4-1 on Road.

I swear some people only watch Bills games and "highlights" of other games around the league and think other QBs are perfect.

 

I don't get it. Ive seen enuff to know A) he isnt a bust....and.....B) he has improved a bunch.........and........C) trolls gonna troll

[Tesla03]

OP should have probably made this thread after the Cowboys or Baltimore game if we won either of those 

Edited November 19, 2019 by Tesla03

[Buffalo_Stampede]

24 minutes ago, badassgixxer05 said:

Hes not ready to throw this team on his back and march us to victory on his own. In all of those games we will still need to play good D and run the football. Allen is still developing, so there most likely wont be any shut up critics moments happening in this stretch. Hes going to make some good plays, some bad plays, win some games, lose some games and be exactly what he was drafted as. In the next couple of years we will know what his ceiling is and if he will or wont prove everyone wrong. 

There really is no excuse for him to lay an egg in all these games. He has to show that he is up to the challenge at least one time. He's got 5 chances in a row.

[dakrider]

23 hours ago, VW82 said:

 

Elway meets the criteria though. He went 12-2 as a starter his second year and the consensus at the time was that he was an obvious candidate to be a franchise guy. 

 

Bills have won most of these games because our defense is good and because we've played a very soft schedule. I never said Allen wouldn't get better. I said all the franchise guys in the more recent QB eras showed glimpses of being great very early in their careers. So far I'd argue Allen hasn't shown that yet.    

Yes Elway was a franchise QB from day 1,  but if you look at his stats, he did not have a very good completion rate most years nor a good TD to INT rate.  He only averaged around 55% his first 9-10 years but then the rate went up to over 60% his last 6 years after Dan Reeves left and the Broncos brought on some better receivers and different offensive philosophy.  It didn't take Elway 10 years to get better, but it did take the Broncos over 10 years for the offense to get good enough for him to perform statistically better.  

[SJDK]

On 11/17/2019 at 2:01 PM, Lurker said:

Do it against the 4th rated defense next week....and then, maybe...

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

1 hour ago, Nextmanup said:

Is this forum a place to objectively exchange ideas about the Buffalo Bills?

 

Or is it a booster club designed to offer a "Feel good" experience to the most jaded Bills fan?

 

Those are 2 different things.  I think the problem is that a lot of posters think this place is supposed to be the former, but most think it is supposed to be the latter.

 

Perhaps the moderators can carve out a "Kool Aid" sub forum for those who enjoy living inside an echo chamber and come here looking solely for a "feel good" experience.

 

I would be happy to never go in that sub forum myself.  By the same token, I don't come here to spar with that sort of fan.  I come here to objectively discuss the team with like minded fans.

 

If we had an entire sub forum filled with the sort of poster I prefer, my time here would be much better spent.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, teef said:

nonsense.  i know you won't respond, but this is nonsense.  if someone is going to be critical, just back it up.  seems easy...right?  well, heading into the game against miami, you insisted that josh allen sucks, and everyone who doesn't think so just isn't being rational.  you stated josh would be responsible for 3 turnovers in the game, and that the bills would lose.  all wrong.  being wrong is not an issue, but how people approach other members can be.  back up your comments, don't put down other posters, and there won't have to be a "kool aid" subforum.  you want to act like jamoke but don't expect to receive any fall out from it.  try actually engaging people in a normal way.  for a guy who prides himself on his age, you sure post like a bratty kid.

 

That was a pretty devastating take down. Thoughts and prayers to @Nextmanup on the tremendous L. 

[BuffaloHokie13]

He's having a pretty efficient year. Let's see how these last few games play out. 

[C.Biscuit97]

13 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

He's having a pretty efficient year. Let's see how these last few games play out. 

Yup, some really good tests coming up to see where he’s at. 

[stony]

His first touchdown pass was his best throw I can remember.  Just a top 5 arm/QB type of throw.  

 

Hi second TD to Knox was good.  It was also further proof that whatever blocking attributes Lee Smith brings into the side are easily outweighed by the offensive potential of Knox.  More Knox , please.