Can the Detractors Now Admit Allen's Growth?

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Seven and Three 

working on many more

That is the only stat I want to see.

[Putin]

Just now, oldmanfan said:

You’re being silly at this point

No it’s actually in a rule book ? 

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

I'm actually glad he still has things he can improve on. Why? because he hasn't reached his peak and still has potential for growth. I mean If he's getting 3500 yards and 30TDs of production with what he has right now.....Wow. The ceiling is very exciting if you're an actual Bills fan. Stay healthy Josh!

Edited November 18, 2019 by D. L. Hot-Flamethrower

[BADOLBILZ]

14 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Today was probably his best game. 

 

I don't think anyone sensible would dispute there has been progress from last year. That said, in the same way as nobody was asking to bench him last week nobody should be crowning him this week. 

 

This was a very encouraging performance now we need to see that consistency game to game. 

 

 

Exactly.   I loved to see him play better and no doubt he has improved but it certainly wasn't a break-out performance.    And we aren't likely to see one this season with this personnel.   As Archuleta alluded Flores knew they could shut the Bills WR corps down with man coverage but were so banged up in the secondary they couldn't do much about it.   Going to be some tough matchups for that wr group going forward.  

 

Would like to see them keep working on playing with more urgency/tempo.   It's easy to fall back on the old "run the no huddle/2 minute" to fix the offense but when defenses can otherwise match up on you it really is an advantage to limit the defense's ability to substitute and Allen is an energetic, athletic QB who looks more comfortable playing fast.

[fergie's ire]

6 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

You’re being silly at this point

No. I am not going to blindly trash Allen after a game like last week when I saw a lot of good for him...or call him inaccurate when I think that for the most part he is quite accurate.  However, I am not blindly going to look for ways to praise him after a game like yesterday, when I still think there is a big hole in his game.  I like Allen and THINK he can be a great quarterback, but I think anyone who is being honest and watches football regularly knows the kind of throw I am talking about.  Sometimes a tight end runs a 15 yard out and the defender is trailing to the inside.  The quarterback will throw a rope that the tight end catches in front of him.  On another play the tight end runs up the sideline with the defender trailing up field.  The quarterback lofts the ball and drops it over the defender to the tight end.  Both are 15 yard passes to the tight end, but very different passes.  Last year, Allen could not make the second throw with any kind of consistency.  It was clear in the Jets game.  Darnold was making those throws and Allen wasn't.  THIS year, Allen is making those throws consistently.  He has learned.  However, he still needs to learn how to do that on deep throws.  Sometimes there will be a defender between Allen and the receiver so "on a rope" won't work.

10 minutes ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

I'm actually glad he still has things he can improve on. Why? because he hasn't reached his peak and still has potential for growth. I mean If he's getting 3500 yards and 30TDs of production with what he has right now.....Wow. The ceiling is very exciting if you're an actual Bills fan. Stay healthy Josh!

I would agree.

[r00tabaga]

His 15 rushing TDs are the most by any QB the last 2 years. That includes LJax.

In 22 career games thats a lot.

38 TDs in 22 games (23 pass/15 rush).

 

Not as bad as everyone thinks....

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, fergie's ire said:

No. I am not going to blindly trash Allen after a game like last week when I saw a lot of good for him...or call him inaccurate when I think that for the most part he is quite accurate.  However, I am not blindly going to look for ways to praise him after a game like yesterday, when I still think there is a big hole in his game.  I like Allen and THINK he can be a great quarterback, but I think anyone who is being honest and watches football regularly knows the kind of throw I am talking about.  Sometimes a tight end runs a 15 yard out and the defender is trailing to the inside.  The quarterback will throw a rope that the tight end catches in front of him.  On another play the tight end runs up the sideline with the defender trailing up field.  The quarterback lofts the ball and drops it over the defender to the tight end.  Both are 15 yard passes to the tight end, but very different passes.  Last year, Allen could not make the second throw with any kind of consistency.  It was clear in the Jets game.  Darnold was making those throws and Allen wasn't.  THIS year, Allen is making those throws consistently.  He has learned.  However, he still needs to learn how to do that on deep throws.  Sometimes there will be a defender between Allen and the receiver so "on a rope" won't work.

I would agree.

I think that kind of throw is, at best, 1% of the total number of throws a QB makes in a season.  Criticizing a guy for not dropping a throw over a guy's shoulder from 4o yards away is to me nit picking.  I think that has as much to do with a WR adjusting to the throw as it does to the throw itself. 

[Matt_In_NH]

5 straight games with no INT's....I was not sure I would have thought that was possible earlier in the season.  He is on an upward projection for sure.  Still a ways to go but up is the right direction.

 

The whole play fearless thing may have largely been directed at Allen.

[Gugny]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

You’re such a hypocrite.   You completely dismissed this game Taylor had against Miami.  https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201612240buf.htm

 

he played really good against a really bad team.  Now do it against Dallas and Pittsburgh.  
 

and what psychopath goes out to dinner on Sunday.  That’s the day of football. Friday’s and Wednesday’s are date nights. 

 

I've always maintained that Tyrod Taylor had 3 good games during his pathetic tenure with the Bills.  Two against Miami and one against Seattle (in a loss).  So no hypocrisy, here.

[Hsker4life]

15 hours ago, Boca BIlls said:

Wait 1 game? I want consistency... EVERYONE wants consistency. ***** people put up these attack threads over 1 game, its pathetic.

After 1 bad game, do you have the same “it’s just 1 game” mentality? 

[r00tabaga]

18 minutes ago, Hsker4life said:

After 1 bad game, do you have the same “it’s just 1 game” mentality? 

Nope, he doesn't. 

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

You’re such a hypocrite.   You completely dismissed this game Taylor had against Miami.  https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201612240buf.htm

 

he played really good against a really bad team.  Now do it against Dallas and Pittsburgh.  
 

and what psychopath goes out to dinner on Sunday.  That’s the day of football. Friday’s and Wednesday’s are date nights. 

It is important that’s every one take note of the Sunday dinner point. This is law. 

[C.Biscuit97]

45 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

I've always maintained that Tyrod Taylor had 3 good games during his pathetic tenure with the Bills.  Two against Miami and one against Seattle (in a loss).  So no hypocrisy, here.

And for the record, I will gladly admit Josh Allen absolutely owns Miami. He dominates them. Now, I just want to see it more against other teams.  

[Billsatlastin2018]

After beating up on the Division 3 Fish, this comparison comes out? ?

 

Watching the league this year there are a lot of mediocre to bad QBs

 

Allen is still developing but I would take him over these starting QBs:

 

Darnold

Fitz

Whoever in CIN

Rudolph

Baker Mayfield

Brisett

Tannehill

Foles/Minchu

Denver's Allen

Rivers (2019 version)

Trubisky

Wentz (yup)

Daniel Jones

Haskins

Winston

Carolinas Allen

Goff

 

That's 17 guys I'd rather have Allen than as of today.

 

Waaay more than me, if you phrase the question as to who is better right now? Imho, Goff, Foles, Rivers & Wentz need to be removed from the list.

 

Allen is in the same sentence as Mayfield & Brissett, perhaps a touch better than Rudolph or Minchu.

 

In any case, to be an effective, weekly star in the NFL, you need to be in the Top 10! Tenth would be good enough for me. Allen is not. He’s now in the second grouping from 11-21 and not near the bottom.. If he gets the Bills to 10-6, I’ll say carry on the evaluation.

 

8-8 won’t. Realistically, it’s likely to be 9-7 against the easiest sked the Bills have had this Millenium. Let’s see what transpires versus: Baltimore, @ Cowgirls, @ Pitt @ the Cheatriots!

 

THOSE are the tests.

[Billsatlastin2018]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

I think that kind of throw is, at best, 1% of the total number of throws a QB makes in a season.  Criticizing a guy for not dropping a throw over a guy's shoulder from 4o yards away is to me nit picking.  I think that has as much to do with a WR adjusting to the throw as it does to the throw itself. 

That is hard! Really, hard to do.
Except? The elite Top 10 QBs (think #1 Rodgers) have that skill.

Allen, absolutely does not!

 

This doesn’t make him a poor QB, but mid pack ones, simply aren’t good enough. He needs to get better at these types of throws. So far? ??
 

(As far as the WR adjusting, sometimes, that’s correct. Came into play on the final play of the game, when Wentz tossed up a floater. The Receiver, having 3 yards to the end line, did NOT keep running and instead, jumped a yard to soon.) But, I really think, that is not the issue with Josh!

Edited November 18, 2019 by Billsatlastin2018

[thebandit27]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Exactly.   I loved to see him play better and no doubt he has improved but it certainly wasn't a break-out performance.    And we aren't likely to see one this season with this personnel.   As Archuleta alluded Flores knew they could shut the Bills WR corps down with man coverage but were so banged up in the secondary they couldn't do much about it.   Going to be some tough matchups for that wr group going forward.  

 

Would like to see them keep working on playing with more urgency/tempo.   It's easy to fall back on the old "run the no huddle/2 minute" to fix the offense but when defenses can otherwise match up on you it really is an advantage to limit the defense's ability to substitute and Allen is an energetic, athletic QB who looks more comfortable playing fast.

 

Absolutely re tempo. Not just because of Allen's ability, but also because he operates so much better when teams can't change their personnel packages. When this kid has a bead on ya pre snap, you're screwed, because dude can make a play.

[dave mcbride]

He is absolutely getting better. He actually threw an accurate bomb yesterday too. It was incomplete (Brown was well covered), but it was definitely accurate. First accurate bomb this season, I think. 

[oldmanfan]

28 minutes ago, Billsatlastin2018 said:

That is hard! Really, hard to do.
Except? The elite Top 10 QBs (think #1 Rodgers) have that skill.

Allen, absolutely does not!

 

This doesn’t make him a poor QB, but mid pack ones, simply aren’t good enough. He needs to get better at these types of throws. So far? ??
 

(As far as the WR adjusting, sometimes, that’s correct. Came into play on the final play of the game, when Wentz tossed up a floater. The Receiver, having 3 yards to the end line, did NOT keep running and instead, jumped a yard to soon.) But, I really think, that is not the issue with Josh!

Yeah, it’s something to continue working on.  But how many passes a year qualify?  Not many.  So relax.

[Figster]

57 minutes ago, Billsatlastin2018 said:

That is hard! Really, hard to do.
Except? The elite Top 10 QBs (think #1 Rodgers) have that skill.

Allen, absolutely does not!

 

This doesn’t make him a poor QB, but mid pack ones, simply aren’t good enough. He needs to get better at these types of throws. So far? ??
 

(As far as the WR adjusting, sometimes, that’s correct. Came into play on the final play of the game, when Wentz tossed up a floater. The Receiver, having 3 yards to the end line, did NOT keep running and instead, jumped a yard to soon.) But, I really think, that is not the issue with Josh!

Myself personally, all the hard work on Allens short to mid range targeting took a toll on long range targeting because most throws are at a high velocity without much touch involved. Josh Allens forte' is laser shots into tight windows and nobody does it better IMO. Everything takes practice and because of the difference in throwing high velocity vs touch Allens long ball may just need practice IMO. Josh Allen is smarter then your average bear, stronger, and more fearless. Allens learning curve may differ from the average QB because he can do more by way of skill set and cover a larger amount of the playing field then your average QB. ( IMO )

 

At times Josh Allens targets lack separation or the size at WR to take full advantage of Allens throwing capabilities IMO.

 

I miss Sammy...  

Edited November 18, 2019 by Figster

[Billsatlastin2018]

“I miss Sammy...  “

 

Even better, on my horse here yet again, is that Beane boy needs to have a criteria to start before the Draft.

 

Beanie... you’re the GM in snowy, blustery Buffalo dude- not Florida, not the a West Coast, not in a Dome!!!

 

The criteria?
MINIMUM 6-3”, preferably 6-4! And then calibrate how much better a slightly slower target in the snow, rain, wind & ice, these protypes would be, than the speedy Smurfs they constantly go after and are invisible to their QB.

 

When the weather outside is frightful in the Season’s back half, Allen needs yuuuge targets, ones where his accuracy is lessened, because all he has to do is throw the ball up to a Gronk or Whitten prototype.

 

How OBD fails to see this, over and over and over, is beyond me!