Postgame thread: Week 11 Bills defeat Dolphins!

[ganesh]

1 hour ago, Elite Poster said:

What a great game to be at. Allen plays like that 13-14 games a year and we can win a chip. 

 

My only two negative takeaways:

1. Stop forcing the ball to Gore and activate Yeldon. He had one good game, really, and I'm tired of watching him fart forwards for 2 when others players can do more.

2. Special teams. What the hell is going on? Jakeem Grant looked like Barry Sanders out there today. 

Grant had tremendous speed.  Rather than criticizing our ST, I think we should appreciate what this guy can do.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

9 hours ago, Nervous Guy said:

https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/topic/220486-props-where-they-are-due-ed-oliver/

 

*Descending trombone*

[Nanker]

After a win like this over Miami, Ralph would extend the Head Coach’s contract. 

[YoloinOhio]

 

 

[Royale with Cheese]

9 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

I noticed this yesterday.  They were rotating a lot more than in the past.  Looks like McD wanted to keep fresh bodies and attack.

 

Lorax, Murphy and Shaq all rotated in the interior and at ends.  We weren’t just rotating 1st team and 2nd team units...it was moving people around.

[K-9]

When we play with leads in the second half of games more often and teams are forced to be more one dimensional, I would expect to see Oliver getting more snaps.

[SCBills]

11 personnel allows us to feature our most dynamic playmakers.  
 

Singletary

Knox

Brown

Beasley

McKenzie

 

My only gripe would be Yeldon over Gore spelling Singletary, and to get Foster some snaps to stretch the defense.  If they’re not going to do that, activate Duke to give us a 50/50 guy.  
 

 

 

Edited November 18, 2019 by SCBills

[PromoTheRobot]

11 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Think about what you are trying to say.  Reality is you are not enjoying as much as others.

Bills can end up better or worse than most of us would of thought BUT you are still not enjoying it as much as some.

 

We were considered a 6-win team at best this year. What's not to like?

Edited November 18, 2019 by PromoTheRobot

[JinxedBill]

Great win.  Need to win next week before the tough stretch.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Marcel Louis Jacques article on ESPN:

 

https://www.espn.com/blog/buffalo-bills/post/_/id/33869/bills-offense-wakes-up-keeps-playoff-hopes-on-track

 

John Brown gracious in the postgame.  Sal (I think) asked if he felt it was "opportunities" having an undrafted rookie shadow him.  His response: "I wasn't surprised.  You look at the film, the Dude can really play, he's pretty good.  I got so much respect for him.  I played pretty good."

https://www.buffalobills.com/video/john-brown-time-to-show-them-what-we-can-do

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Marcel Louis-Jacques takes questions on Twitter.  Pics so it captures the Q.  My comments on a few beneath 'em.

 

 

My memory was that Bates played capably in limited duty before.  Anyone else?  But whoever is playing will need help against Miller

 

Pay the man

 

IIRC, Daboll came down to the sidelines the 2nd half of the season to be more available to the QBs.  Culley was kind of a weak stick, and Anderson/Barkley came in mid season and weren't fully plugged in to the O.  Dorsey is fully on board and by reports, a good QB coach.  Barkley is fully up to speed.  McDermott commented post-game that when he was a DC, he called games from the booth because "you can see more".  Allen postgame said "that's probably what we'll do from now on".

 

 

I saw Beasley and Kroft open at times in the Browns game when Brown, McKensie or whoever were double-covered and Josh was throwing to them.  I think it needs to be a step in Josh's field awareness that teams will try to take Brown away and the next answer should not be McKensie.  Though I'm also sure it's part of the Bills plan to involve him and put it on film so that "McKensie in the game" = "look out for that Jet Sweep" doesn't flash like a billboard in the defense.

 

 

 

The identity is "we have no identity".  Nice.

[dollars 2 donuts]

I am an Allen guy.  I am.  I have been one from the day we drafted him.  I only started to not give him a pass during the first Miami game this year. 

 

However, what I would love to see next week, against a good Denver D, is a similar game...Sort of similar.  If he throws for 250, 2 tds, and no picks and completes 60% of his passes in a win (even if it is a 27-24 Bills win) I think that will show us a lot, or at the very least a nice progression against a good D.

 

A 14-10 victory (good Bills D) and the excuse of, "Well, they didn't need him to throw for more than 170 yards in a game like this.", won't cut it for me.

 

Of course I will take the win.  It is just I am looking for the progression of a "franchise QB"...because I believe we are looking for a franchise QB.  

Edited November 18, 2019 by dollars 2 donuts

[Hapless Bills Fan]

13 minutes ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

I am an Allen guy.  I am.  I have been one from the day we drafted him.  I only started to not give him a pass during the first Miami game this year. 

 

However, what I would love to see next week, against a good Denver D, is a similar game...Sort of similar.  If he throws for 250, 2 tds, and no picks and completes 60% of his passes in a win (even if it is a 27-24 Bills win) I think that will show us a lot, or at the very least a nice progression against a good D.

 

A 14-10 victory (good Bills D) and the excuse of, "Well, they didn't need him to throw for more than 170 yards in a game like this.", won't cut it for me.

 

Of course I will take the win.  It is just I am looking for the progression of a "franchise QB"...because I believe we are looking for a franchise QB.  

 

It's going to (and it should) depend somewhat upon the weather.  I do not want to see Daboll crafting a passing-heavy game because in the abstract, that's the best matchup - ignoring the field conditions.

[dollars 2 donuts]

8 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

It's going to (and it should) depend somewhat upon the weather.  I do not want to see Daboll crafting a passing-heavy game because in the abstract, that's the best matchup - ignoring the field conditions.

 

 

Great point, Hap.

 

Man...I am treading on this lightly, even as I did in my earlier post.  I want THIS kid to succeed, and he is playing well.  Boy, I would just love to see him get "tested" in a game and show up with flying colors. 

 

He's proved he can do comebacks.  He's proved he can prevent turning the ball over.  He's proved he can increase his completion percentage.  He's proved he can throw TDs, long and short.

 

I just need him to prove all that against better competition, WHEN given the opportunity.  

 

I would so love to see yesterday's tally on Thanksgiving Day.

 

Go BILLS, GO ALLEN!

Edited November 18, 2019 by dollars 2 donuts

[Hapless Bills Fan]

53 minutes ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

 

 

Great point, Hap.

 

Man...I am treading on this lightly, even as I did in my earlier post.  I want THIS kid to succeed, and he is playing well.  Boy, I would just love to see him get "tested" in a game and show up with flying colors. 

 

He's proved he can do comebacks.  He's proved he can prevent turning the ball over.  He's proved he can increase his completion percentage.  He's proved he can throw TDs, long and short.

 

I just need him to prove all that against better competition, WHEN given the opportunity.  

 

I would so love to see yesterday's tally on Thanksgiving Day.

 

Go BILLS, GO ALLEN!

 

Dollars, there's no way you'll see this tally on Thanksgiving.  The 'Boys have the #5 scoring offense and the #9 scoring defense.  They are a legit team, a team that gets flagged every week by score differential as being better than their record suggests.  3 of their 4 losses have been by less than a TD, 2 by less than a FG.

 

They can be beaten, though: the Jets and the Saints and Vikings both managed it.  I would be happy with a 12-10 win or a 24-22 or 28-24 win.  Heck, one point would do me.

 

I'm pretty sure I am stirring things up to say this.  To my eyes, Allen's 'test' where he showed up better than people think was actually last week against the Browns.  He did bail a couple times and make a couple of poor decisions, but he also stood in the pocket and made good decisions and good or good-enough throws.  When I finally went back and watched coach's film with a pen, I saw about 7 passes that could have been caught and weren't - either because of uncalled DPI or really good pass D, or because we just don't have the "hosses" who can come down with those kind of throws yet.  And there are factors beyond Allen: if we got a couple penalty calls, if our D gets a stop on that last Brown's TD drive when we had the lead, or if this week's Haushka showed up last week in Cleveland, we plausibly get the W and people on this board and in the media, generally, would see Allen's game last week through a different lens. 

 

But we didn't, so they don't and won't, and that's fair.  That's football.  I will just point out the Browns demolished Pittsburgh and many who are incredulous that we let the lowly Browns slip by us, have the Stillers chalked up as an "L" for us.  The Browns have way more talent than their record shows and when they show up, they're legit tough.  (Or they were, before their best defender went berserker and got his ass kicked by the league)

 

My point isn't that last week against the Browns was a good-enough effort by Allen - it wasn't - but that was a "testing" game where he was asked to carry the team on his arm and he didn't have quite enough, but what he showed was a lot closer to enough than most people are thinking right now.  I think you could see it in both Daboll's presser and in the change in Allen's demeanor from pre-game, to post-game presser to Wednesday.  You could tell before the game that he knew he was in for a test and that the game plan was going to be on him.  Then afterwards, after he watched the film and dissected the game with the coaches, you could tell he went from being all discouraged "If I knew, I'd probably be hitting them" to confident "few decisions, six inches on two throws...I can fix those things" confident.

 

I am both encouraged and discouraged by yesterday's game.  It was great to see John Brown have a strong game.   He deserves it.  And also, Allen did distribute the ball elsewhere - 14 targets to 4 other receivers (as many as went to Brown).   I'm puzzled by the use of Beasley.  Are teams just taking away the short stuff he does well?  Is there something in practice where if Allen puts too much juice on as he does when he's pressured, he can't make those receptions and he puts the ball at risk so they're trying different routes with him?  I'm puzzled by the relative absence of Kroft.  I saw him open a couple of times against the Browns when Allen chose to throw to a more tightly-covered Brown, I'll be interested to see what's there from yesterday. The Texans vs Baltimore showed clearly that if a team has one great WR that the QB leans on, they are very vulnerable if the opponent has the hosses to take that guy away (and the Zebras let them get away with a few).  That will be the case both in Baltimore and NE, and probably Dallas.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

 

 

 

[dakrider]

1 hour ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

I am an Allen guy.  I am.  I have been one from the day we drafted him.  I only started to not give him a pass during the first Miami game this year. 

 

However, what I would love to see next week, against a good Denver D, is a similar game...Sort of similar.  If he throws for 250, 2 tds, and no picks and completes 60% of his passes in a win (even if it is a 27-24 Bills win) I think that will show us a lot, or at the very least a nice progression against a good D.

 

A 14-10 victory (good Bills D) and the excuse of, "Well, they didn't need him to throw for more than 170 yards in a game like this.", won't cut it for me.

 

Of course I will take the win.  It is just I am looking for the progression of a "franchise QB"...because I believe we are looking for a franchise QB.  

 

Brady threw for 216 yards, no TD's and 55% comp. rate against Eagles. Goff had 173 yards, 1 Int and no TD's against Bears. And Brissett had 148 yards with 1 TD and 1 Int. All 3 of them won.  It's ignorant to say Allen needs to have X stats in order to be considered good enough.   Bills O line isn't likely to give Allen the same time he had against Miami.  Bills are going to have to score some points though and hope their defense has another good day.  

[dollars 2 donuts]

3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Dollars, there's no way you'll see this tally on Thanksgiving.  The 'Boys have the #5 scoring offense and the #9 scoring defense.  They are a legit team, a team that gets flagged every week by score differential as being better than their record suggests.  3 of their 4 losses have been by less than a TD, 2 by less than a FG.

 

They can be beaten, though: the Jets and the Saints and Vikings both managed it.  I would be happy with a 12-10 win or a 24-22 or 28-24 win.  Heck, one point would do me.

 

I'm pretty sure I am stirring things up to say this.  To my eyes, Allen's 'test' where he showed up better than people think was actually last week against the Browns.  He did bail a couple times and make a couple of poor decisions, but he also stood in the pocket and made good decisions and good or good-enough throws.  When I finally went back and watched coach's film with a pen, I saw about 7 passes that could have been caught and weren't - either because of uncalled DPI or really good pass D, or because we just don't have the "hosses" who can come down with those kind of throws yet.  And there are factors beyond Allen: if we got a couple penalty calls, if our D gets a stop on that last Brown's TD drive when we had the lead, or if this week's Haushka showed up last week in Cleveland, we plausibly get the W and people on this board and in the media, generally, would see Allen's game last week through a different lens. 

 

But we didn't, so they don't and won't, and that's fair.  That's football.  I will just point out the Browns demolished Pittsburgh and many who are incredulous that we let the lowly Browns slip by us, have the Stillers chalked up as an "L" for us.  The Browns have way more talent than their record shows and when they show up, they're legit tough.  (Or they were, before their best defender went berserker and got his ass kicked by the league)

 

My point isn't that last week against the Browns was a good-enough effort by Allen - it wasn't - but that was a "testing" game where he was asked to carry the team on his arm and he didn't have quite enough, but what he showed was a lot closer to enough than most people are thinking right now.  I think you could see it in both Daboll's presser and in the change in Allen's demeanor from pre-game, to post-game presser to Wednesday.  You could tell before the game that he knew he was in for a test and that the game plan was going to be on him.  Then afterwards, after he watched the film and dissected the game with the coaches, you could tell he went from being all discouraged "If I knew, I'd probably be hitting them" to confident "few decisions, six inches on two throws...I can fix those things" confident.

 

I am both encouraged and discouraged by yesterday's game.  It was great to see John Brown have a strong game.   He deserves it.  And also, Allen did distribute the ball elsewhere - 14 targets to 4 other receivers (as many as went to Brown).   I'm puzzled by the use of Beasley.  Are teams just taking away the short stuff he does well?  Is there something in practice where if Allen puts too much juice on as he does when he's pressured, he can't make those receptions and he puts the ball at risk so they're trying different routes with him?  I'm puzzled by the relative absence of Kroft.  I saw him open a couple of times against the Browns when Allen chose to throw to a more tightly-covered Brown, I'll be interested to see what's there from yesterday. The Texans vs Baltimore showed clearly that if a team has one great WR that the QB leans on, they are very vulnerable if the opponent has the hosses to take that guy away (and the Zebras let them get away with a few).  That will be the case both in Baltimore and NE, and probably Dallas.

 

 

This is such a great post, Hap, that I really can't find anything to debate with you on.

 

...wins are wins, and yes I would take 12-10 against the Cowboys on Thanksgiving.

 

I honestly think Beasely can still have a record setting year (I believe he is at 42 receptions, and would need 24 more, but I could be wrong).  John Brown will set his career mark.  Note to potential FA WRs in 2020...Buffalo may be a landing spot for you.

 

What we can all say in earnest is that Josh Allen is still going to need more help.  We really do need a number 1, or rather a 1A over Brown next year and we really do need a couple of more permanent answers on the Oline and...not done yet...after Gore (what I mean is after gore either retires or leaves) we really need another RB option next year.  Maybe the rugby young man, FA or a draft pick.

Edited November 18, 2019 by dollars 2 donuts

[dollars 2 donuts]

34 minutes ago, dakrider said:

 

Brady threw for 216 yards, no TD's and 55% comp. rate against Eagles. Goff had 173 yards, 1 Int and no TD's against Bears. And Brissett had 148 yards with 1 TD and 1 Int. All 3 of them won.  It's ignorant to say Allen needs to have X stats in order to be considered good enough.   Bills O line isn't likely to give Allen the same time he had against Miami.  Bills are going to have to score some points though and hope their defense has another good day.  

 

...yet I still want it, because I see it from so called franchise QBs and that is the goal.

 

Great Goff had 173 yards and won against an increasingly terrible team like the Bears, and that was just yesterday.  I wouldn't take him over Allen right now.

 

I want a Russell Wilson.  That's what I want.  That's what I want him to be.  Our other warts be damned when we have that, but that is what I want.  

 

It is not ignorant to want the potential of a franchise QB.  It is not ignorant to hope for Bills fans chanting "MVP" like they do for Jackson in Baltimore ( a guy drafted further down the list) and have it be a real thing. 

 

It is what I want and it is what I still think OUR QB might be able to do.  

 

...I just need to see it.

Edited November 18, 2019 by dollars 2 donuts

[Hapless Bills Fan]

59 minutes ago, SlimShady'sGhost said:

 

 

 

 

Thank you.  That was very relaxing to watch.