Postgame thread: Week 11 Bills defeat Dolphins!

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 minutes ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

I want a Russell Wilson.  That's what I want.  That's what I want him to be.  Our other warts be damned when we have that, but that is what I want.  

 

It is not ignorant to want the potential of a franchise QB.  It is not ignorant to hope for Bills fans chanting "MVP" like they do for Jackson in Baltimore ( a guy drafted further down the list) and have it be a real thing. 

 

It is what I want and it is what I still think OUR QB might be able to do.  

 

...I just need to see it.

 

Just bear in mind that Russ Wilson didn't really become the MVP passing QB people are accustomed to seeing now until ~ his 4th year in the league. 

He was very good, yes, better than Allen was last year, but he averaged <220 ypg passing until year 4 and Seattle leaned on a top-notch rushing offense.

 

People forget now that Seattle's passing offense was #26 or #27 for yards and #31 or #32 for attempts in Wilson's first 3 years in the league, and there was legit conversation about back then about whether Seattle should pay him, whether he had "shown enough" to be "the Man".

[Coach Tuesday]

Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Just bear in mind that Russ Wilson didn't really become the MVP passing QB people are accustomed to seeing now until ~ his 4th year in the league. 

He was very good, yes, better than Allen was last year, but he averaged <220 ypg passing until year 4 and Seattle leaned on a top-notch rushing offense.

 

People forget now that Seattle's passing offense was #26 or #27 for yards and #31 or #32 for attempts in Wilson's first 3 years in the league, and there was legit conversation about back then about whether Seattle should pay him, whether he had "shown enough" to be "the Man".

 

He also began his career in what was, at the time, a cupcake division.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

9 minutes ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

 

...yet I still want it, because I see it from so called franchise QBs and that is the goal.

 

Great Goff had 173 yards and won against an increasingly terrible team like the Bears, and that was just yesterday.  I wouldn't take him over Allen right now.

 

I want a Russell Wilson.  That's what I want.  That's what I want him to be.  Our other warts be damned when we have that, but that is what I want.  

 

It is not ignorant to want the potential of a franchise QB.  It is not ignorant to hope for Bills fans chanting "MVP" like they do for Jackson in Baltimore ( a guy drafted further down the list) and have it be a real thing. 

 

It is what I want and it is what I still think OUR QB might be able to do.  

 

...I just need to see it.

 

Russell Wilson wasn't even Russell Wilson till his third year. His first two years, his teams won on the strength of their defense.

 

Josh is WAY more advanced at this point than even I thought he'd be.

 

Anyone clamoring and raging about "sub par" QB play is ignorant, IMO.

 

[dollars 2 donuts]

19 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Russell Wilson wasn't even Russell Wilson till his third year. His first two years, his teams won on the strength of their defense.

 

Josh is WAY more advanced at this point than even I thought he'd be.

 

Anyone clamoring and raging about "sub par" QB play is ignorant, IMO.

 

 

 

Wilson IS at a differently level right now, but respectfully the guy threw 52 TDs in his first 2 seasons, with 19 picks and a QBR of over 100.  That is for both seasons.  He stat line is very similar (26-10 year 1 with a 100 rating and 26-9 year 2 with a 101.2 rating).

 

I have yet to attach "sub par" with any post here that I have made.   He also is more advanced than what even I though he would be at this point, too.  I am with you on that.   

 

However, I want more.  We need more.  Other guys are doing more.  The guys who aren't doing more, Rosen and Darnold, I don't give a crap about.  I want Allen to progress as much as he can and as quickly as he can to keep up with the Jackson's of this League as well as the Mahomes'.  

 

Please, I just ask you to note what I am writing and not trying to read between the lines.  

 

I am not disappointed with Allen, but I want to see more and with the way the League is I am asking, and hoping, to see more.  After Miami, game 1, the first seeds of doubt entered my thoughts.  however, he has been much better...

 

...but I want him to be great...consistently...and soon.  Because he'll need to be.

 

Side note, which should not be under estimated:  If the Bills get upset by the Broncos and the Raiders and Texans win, the Bills will already be out of the the last playoff spot by next Sunday at about 4:30.

 

The Raiders, out of the playoff picture right now, play one single team with a winning record from here on out.  The Bills' schedule is obviously more difficult.

 

We need Allen great, as great as he can be, and soon as he can do it.  

Edited November 18, 2019 by dollars 2 donuts

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

4 minutes ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

 

 

Wilson IS at a differently level right now, but respectfully the guy threw 52 TDs in his first 2 seasons, with 19 picks and a QBR of over 100.  That is for both seasons.  He stat line is very similar (26-10 year 1 and 26-9 year 2).

 

 

Josh Allen through a year and 10 games:

 

36 passing TD, 26 INT (with 19 of them last year), Also add 15 Rush TDs to that total.

 

So, let's assume he keeps up his pace of 2 passing TD for the rest of the season. That brings his number up to 48 passing TD through the first two seasons.

 

I'd say that's comparable, wouldn't you?

 

 

Edited November 18, 2019 by Joe in Winslow

[dollars 2 donuts]

23 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Josh Allen through a year and 10 games:

 

36 passing TD, 26 INT (with 19 of them last year), Also add 15 Rush TDs to that total.

 

So, let's assume he keeps up his pace of 2 passing TD for the rest of the season. That brings his number up to 48 passing TD through the first two seasons.

 

I'd say that's comparable, wouldn't you?

 

 

 

 

Joe, even in the best light given the above he only comes close.    

 

First, do I want him to do what you are saying?  Hell yes, and I will take that!  are you kidding, 25 tds...GREAT.  However, you are going right to my very point...that is WE NEED HIM TO DO THAT FOR THE REST OF THE YEAR AGAINST TOUGHER COMPETITION.  We are on the same page!

 

Secondly, if he does that, and doesn't throw ANY picks for the rest of the season he ends up at 48-26, with Rushing TDs.  It isn't the same as 52-19 (55-19 with Wilson's rushing TDS)...but this is all tangential to the main point.

 

Hypothetically and out of thin air not based on too much...If the Bills go 3-3 and Allen has 10 tds and 4 picks and generally looks good, I am probably good with that, especially if 10-6 gets them in the playoffs.  Before the season I may have thrown out 24 tds and 14 picks as a goal for him, with 30 tds total as a nice progression.  The above scenario: 23 passing tds, 13 picks and lets throw on at least 1 more rushing tds for 32 tds total...I love it.

 

...but give me your numbers, which I think aren't just good but significant.  Give me 12 tds, maybe just 2 picks and 4-2 with an upset victory on his shoulders and damn...25 tds, 9 picks, 34 tds total and 11-5...Joe HE IS that franchise QB then.  He is in the numbers range of Wilson, year 2, albeit with many more rushing tds).

 

...he just has to do what you are saying or hoping is going to do, and I for one really want him to do it.

 

What you're saying isn't a "nice progression" or "pleasantly pleasing" as we are all prone to say.  Finishing with 22 passing tds over a 10 plus game period with 2 ints really is a franchise qb.

 

 

Edited November 18, 2019 by dollars 2 donuts

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

 

 

Joe, even in the best light given the above he only comes close.    

 

First, do I want him to do what you are saying?  Hell yes, and I will take that!  are you kidding, 25 tds...GREAT.  However, you are going right to my very point...that is WE NEED HIM TO DO THAT FOR THE REST OF THE YEAR AGAINST TOUGHER COMPETITION.  We are on the same page!

 

Secondly, if he does that, and doesn't throw ANY picks for the rest of the season he ends up at 48-26, with Rushing TDs.  It isn't the same as 52-19 (55-19 with Wilson's rushing TDS)...but this is all tangential to the main point.

 

Hypothetical, out of thin air not based on too much...If the Bills go 3-3 and Allen has 10 tds and 4 picks and generally looks good, I am probably good with that, especially if 10-6 gets them in the playoffs.  Before the season I may have thrown out 24 tds and 14 picks as a goal for him, with 30 tds total as a nice progression.  The above scenario: 23 passing tds, 13 picks and lets throw on at least 1 more rushing tds for 32 tds total...I love it.

 

...but give me your numbers, which I think aren't just good but significant.  Give me 12 tds, maybe just 2 picks and 4-2 with an upset victory on his shoulders and damn...25 tds, 9 picks, 34 tds total and 11-5...Joe HE IS that franchise QB then.  He is in the numbers range of Wilson, year 2 9 albeit many more rushing tds).

 

...he just has to do what you are saying or hoping is going to do, and I for one really want him to do it.

 

 

 

I don't think it's entirely unrealistic to expect two pass TDs per game for the rest of the season from Josh. He's done it each of the past 6 weeks (I think).

 

I know one thing, he has no INTs since week 4. Zero.

 

So, we'll see where this thing goes. But he IS already proving himself to be a franchise guy, in my opinion. He's certainly better than any QB we've had the prior 20 years, and I think he's got a chance to end up the best out of his class if he keeps moving at the trajectory he's on.

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

36 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Russell Wilson wasn't even Russell Wilson till his third year. His first two years, his teams won on the strength of their defense.

 

Josh is WAY more advanced at this point than even I thought he'd be.

 

Anyone clamoring and raging about "sub par" QB play is ignorant, IMO.

 

 

Not entirely correct.  Seattle had a very good, top-10 offense Wilson's first 3 years.  It was symbiotic: they leaned on the strength of their rushing game, but Wilson could do enough passing and with his own wheels to keep teams from choking the rush.  Wilson was accurate and didn't make many mistakes.  But Wilson also had his share of 3-INT games and games where he passed for <150 yds (something like 10 or 12 out of his first 26 games IIRC).  He also, as said, had the support of a strong rush game and good OL and some talent at WR.

 

Wilson's play was considered by some at the time to be "sub par" QB play despite the success, so no, I'd have to say that people clamoring about "sub par" QB play from Josh have a point, but there's also a point that Josh IS better than I thought he would be at this point, he's taken a big step this off season, and there's no reason to think he's plateaued. 

 

That's the big unknown with young QBs.  A lot of them get to the point, some good some bad, sometimes enough, some not - and then it's just a question of who will keep growing, and who will level off or regress?

[dollars 2 donuts]

Just now, Joe in Winslow said:

 

I don't think it's entirely unrealistic to expect two pass TDs per game for the rest of the season from Josh. He's done it each of the past 6 weeks (I think).

 

I know one thing, he has no INTs since week 4. Zero.

 

So, we'll see where this thing goes. But he IS already proving himself to be a franchise guy, in my opinion. He's certainly better than any QB we've had the prior 20 years, and I think he's got a chance to end up the best out of his class if he keeps moving at the trajectory he's on.

 

 

 

 

Joe, please might I also add that he needs help in the draft and in FAs...that isn't just him, Joe...EVERY QB IN HIS scenario on this team would need more help.  No disrespect to some of the guys we have now.  Just more.

 

1 WR, 2 more Oline, and another RB.  That would be a nice menu in my book for 2020..

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

2 minutes ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

 

 

Joe, please might I also add that he needs help in the draft and in FAs...that isn't just him, Joe...EVERY QB IN HIS scenario on this team would need more help.  No disrespect to some of the guys we have now.  Just more.

 

1 WR, 2 more Oline, and another RB.  That would be a nice menu in my book for 2020..

 

Preaching to the choir. I wanted DK Metcalf.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

20 hours ago, The Wiz said:

Nice catch. Felt like a different approach but that could have just been the game plan. 

 

I think the game plan was a different approach.  Eric Wood has some analysis:

 

https://www.buffalobills.com/news/eric-wood-how-new-wrinkles-on-offense-and-an-aggressive-defensive-game-plan-led-

 

 

[ColoradoBills]

52 minutes ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

 

 

Wilson IS at a differently level right now, but respectfully the guy threw 52 TDs in his first 2 seasons, with 19 picks and a QBR of over 100.  That is for both seasons.  He stat line is very similar (26-10 year 1 with a 100 rating and 26-9 year 2 with a 101.2 rating).

 

I have yet to attach "sub par" with any post here that I have made.   He also is more advanced than what even I though he would be at this point, too.  I am with you on that.   

 

However, I want more.  We need more.  Other guys are doing more.  The guys who aren't doing more, Rosen and Darnold, I don't give a crap about.  I want Allen to progress as much as he can and as quickly as he can to keep up with the Jackson's of this League as well as the Mahomes'.  

 

Please, I just ask you to note what I am writing and not trying to read between the lines.  

 

I am not disappointed with Allen, but I want to see more and with the way the League is I am asking, and hoping, to see more.  After Miami, game 1, the first seeds of doubt entered my thoughts.  however, he has been much better...

 

...but I want him to be great...consistently...and soon.  Because he'll need to be.

 

Side note, which should not be under estimated:  If the Bills get upset by the Broncos and the Raiders and Texans win, the Bills will already be out of the the last playoff spot by next Sunday at about 4:30.

 

The Raiders, out of the playoff picture right now, play one single team with a winning record from here on out.  The Bills' schedule is obviously more difficult.

 

We need Allen great, as great as he can be, and soon as he can do it.  

 

IF the Texans win next week that means they beat the Colts which would drop to a 6-5 record.

There is a whole lot of IF's in the schedule.

 

Bills know the Broncos game is another big one.

[gobills1212]

15 hours ago, GG said:

Should really happen.  This hire was a huge mistake.  

This fooled the poor guy who called Sal's show wanting to talk about the coach who was fired lol. Poor guy!!

[Patrick Duffy]

3 hours ago, SlimShady'sGhost said:

 

 

 

Love the second play shown on here. He makes them pay when the Fins are sending all out blitz and hits Brown in the slant. And they paid dearly. Love to see much more of that in the upcoming games.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 minutes ago, Patrick_Duffy said:

Love the second play shown on here. He makes them pay when the Fins are sending all out blitz and hits Brown in the slant. And they paid dearly. Love to see much more of that in the upcoming games.

 

Oh, that was sick, SICK. 

 

What people don't realize is that there were some plays like that in the Browns game too.  In one, Allen's throw was on point to JB and the Browns DB was literally holding JB's left arm back.  No flag.  For the two of them, learning how to tune the throws to overcome the inevitable uncalled DPI is just going to be part of the game.

[Chandler#81]

14 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Dollars, there's no way you'll see this tally on Thanksgiving.  The 'Boys have the #5 scoring offense and the #9 scoring defense.  They are a legit team, a team that gets flagged every week by score differential as being better than their record suggests.  3 of their 4 losses have been by less than a TD, 2 by less than a FG.

 

They can be beaten, though: the Jets and the Saints and Vikings both managed it.  I would be happy with a 12-10 win or a 24-22 or 28-24 win.  Heck, one point would do me.

 

I'm pretty sure I am stirring things up to say this.  To my eyes, Allen's 'test' where he showed up better than people think was actually last week against the Browns.  He did bail a couple times and make a couple of poor decisions, but he also stood in the pocket and made good decisions and good or good-enough throws.  When I finally went back and watched coach's film with a pen, I saw about 7 passes that could have been caught and weren't - either because of uncalled DPI or really good pass D, or because we just don't have the "hosses" who can come down with those kind of throws yet.  And there are factors beyond Allen: if we got a couple penalty calls, if our D gets a stop on that last Brown's TD drive when we had the lead, or if this week's Haushka showed up last week in Cleveland, we plausibly get the W and people on this board and in the media, generally, would see Allen's game last week through a different lens. 

 

But we didn't, so they don't and won't, and that's fair.  That's football.  I will just point out the Browns demolished Pittsburgh and many who are incredulous that we let the lowly Browns slip by us, have the Stillers chalked up as an "L" for us.  The Browns have way more talent than their record shows and when they show up, they're legit tough.  (Or they were, before their best defender went berserker and got his ass kicked by the league)

 

My point isn't that last week against the Browns was a good-enough effort by Allen - it wasn't - but that was a "testing" game where he was asked to carry the team on his arm and he didn't have quite enough, but what he showed was a lot closer to enough than most people are thinking right now.  I think you could see it in both Daboll's presser and in the change in Allen's demeanor from pre-game, to post-game presser to Wednesday.  You could tell before the game that he knew he was in for a test and that the game plan was going to be on him.  Then afterwards, after he watched the film and dissected the game with the coaches, you could tell he went from being all discouraged "If I knew, I'd probably be hitting them" to confident "few decisions, six inches on two throws...I can fix those things" confident.

 

I am both encouraged and discouraged by yesterday's game.  It was great to see John Brown have a strong game.   He deserves it.  And also, Allen did distribute the ball elsewhere - 14 targets to 4 other receivers (as many as went to Brown).   I'm puzzled by the use of Beasley.  Are teams just taking away the short stuff he does well?  Is there something in practice where if Allen puts too much juice on as he does when he's pressured, he can't make those receptions and he puts the ball at risk so they're trying different routes with him?  I'm puzzled by the relative absence of Kroft.  I saw him open a couple of times against the Browns when Allen chose to throw to a more tightly-covered Brown, I'll be interested to see what's there from yesterday. The Texans vs Baltimore showed clearly that if a team has one great WR that the QB leans on, they are very vulnerable if the opponent has the hosses to take that guy away (and the Zebras let them get away with a few).  That will be the case both in Baltimore and NE, and probably Dallas.

Post of the week! Were you drunk when you wrote this? If so, I’d like to recommend a nice Chablis.?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Just now, Chandler#81 said:

Post if the week! We’re you drunk when you wrote this? If so, I’d like to recommend a nice Chablis.?

 

9:30 on Monday am?  No, Sir.

 

I Thank you for the recommendation but it's Josh Cellars for me while the Bills win.

[dollars 2 donuts]

1 hour ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Preaching to the choir. I wanted DK Metcalf.

DK would be doing nasty, nasty, nasty things to dbs playing against this team.

 

funny as we really need Ford right now, but que my inner Homer drooling noise now at the idea of dk.

56 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

IF the Texans win next week that means they beat the Colts which would drop to a 6-5 record.

There is a whole lot of IF's in the schedule.

 

Bills know the Broncos game is another big one.

 

whew, honestly thank you for correcting me, Colorado.

 

i was Squamish thinking about this.  
 

1 loss and we are in that much trouble?!

 

glad I was off the mark a bit.

 

yes, it is a big game, but seriously thank you for the corrected info.

Edited November 18, 2019 by dollars 2 donuts

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

 

 

 

@JoshAllenQB joins the show now! Tune in on @WGR550 and @MSGNetworks

 

[ColoradoBills]

5 minutes ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

DK would be doing nasty, nasty, nasty things to dbs playing against this team.

 

funny as we really need Ford right now, but que my inner Homer drooling noise now at the idea of dk.

 

whew, honestly thank you for correcting me, Colorado.

 

i was Squamish thinking about this.  
 

1 loss and we are in that much trouble?!

 

glad I was off the mark a bit.

 

yes, it is a big game, but seriously thank you for the corrected info.

 

No problem Dollar I have the same feelings.  No matter what happens all these games (both the Bills and other WC AFC teams) are

just going to get bigger and bigger.

 

In all probability it's going down to the wire so I'm preparing to just hang on!