SoTier Posted November 16, 2019 Posted November 16, 2019 7 hours ago, Nextmanup said: I pointed that out in a thread around the time of our first game! It is truly amazing. The NHL has been ruined by this phenomenon now. There are entire segments of players now who can remain in the league for entire careers despite being average to below average the entire time, and retiring as multi-multi-millionaires. It's nuts. People talk about this all the time. I don't get it. They have coaches for teaching people how to play football. Why does a fellow player have to be a mentor? I would argue a young QB isn't going to learn much from a veteran backup, except maybe how not to play. The intangible, peripheral types of lessons all players need to learn (how to relate to the press, how to stay even keel after a win or loss, the right way to do things, show up on time for meetings, etc.) can be learned from the veterans at other positions already on the team. Don't need a veteran at the same position for that stuff. I agree. Coaches should be the ones teaching young players how to play the game, especially young QBs. Veterans playing the same position can and often do offer advice on how to respond to specific players or situations -- like "watch out for 67's spin move on third down" -- but that's not their job and shouldn't be expected. Moreover, peer mentoring doesn't work unless the vet and the young player bond -- and there's no guarantee that that's going to happen with any two people just because they play the same position. 7 hours ago, auburnbillsbacker said: Tanking is more important. If you get the right QB the culture will improve as the team wins more gamea. Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Ben Roethlisberger, Aaron Rodgers, Russell Wilson, Derek Carr, Jimmy Garoppolo, Dak Prescott, Patrick Mahomes, DeShaun Watson, and Lamar Jackson all say "Hi". None of these great/good QBs currently starting in the NFL were the first QBs taken in their draft classes. In fact, only Roethlisberger, Rodgers, Mahomes, Watson, and Jackson were first rounders, and only Mahomes was drafted in the top ten. Moreover UDFA Kyle Allen has not only filled in more than adequately for former #1 pick and former league MVP Cam Newton, he may have won the starting job with his far better than expected play this season that has the Panthers still contending for a playoff slot. Third rounder Jacoby Brissett has proven to be a solid starting QB for Indy following Andrew Luck's unexpected retirement in August, and the #32 pick in the 2014 draft, Teddy Bridgewater, filled in so well for Drew Brees that he's likely earned another shot at being a starter either in NO or elsewhere after coming back from a devastating knee injury that almost cost him his leg. Teams have to be smart enough to recognize talent and grab it when they get the chance. The Packers grabbed Rodges at #24 in 2005 despite having HOFer Brett Favre, and Andy Reid traded his 2018 first round pick to the Bills in order to grab Mahomes despite having the very capable (and former #1 pick) Alex Smith as his starter. The Bills for their part have essentially wasted the first 2 years of Allen's career because they haven't put enough talent around him to really help him succeed, and that includes coaching -- and that's part of the "culture" on the Bills. McDermott and Beane have put most of the Bills resources into the defensive side of the team and given mostly crumbs to the offense. Worse yet, McDermott/Beane's ineptitude as talent evaluators has resulted in them continually making poor choices in hiring coaches, signing/trading veterans, and drafting youngsters. You can see how FO talent trumps on field talent every Sunday (or Thursday or Monday, too).
PatsFanNH Posted November 16, 2019 Posted November 16, 2019 9 hours ago, Nextmanup said: I pointed that out in a thread around the time of our first game! It is truly amazing. The NHL has been ruined by this phenomenon now. There are entire segments of players now who can remain in the league for entire careers despite being average to below average the entire time, and retiring as multi-multi-millionaires. It's nuts. People talk about this all the time. I don't get it. They have coaches for teaching people how to play football. Why does a fellow player have to be a mentor? I would argue a young QB isn't going to learn much from a veteran backup, except maybe how not to play. The intangible, peripheral types of lessons all players need to learn (how to relate to the press, how to stay even keel after a win or loss, the right way to do things, show up on time for meetings, etc.) can be learned from the veterans at other positions already on the team. Don't need a veteran at the same position for that stuff. So your saying being behind Brady didn’t help Jimmy G or Jacoby Brissett?? I think I will respectfully disagree, you can pick the brain of your vet leader to learn and get better.. the key is to make sure that leader is worth having the brain picked lol 1
Thurman#1 Posted November 16, 2019 Posted November 16, 2019 Over and over and over you read, write and say that there's no such thing as a tank in the NFL, that what there are in this league are rebuilds, not tanks. Over and over, people ignore it and say someone or other is tanking and get shown to be wrong.
Thurman#1 Posted November 16, 2019 Posted November 16, 2019 23 hours ago, SoTier said: Where in the draft would that be exactly??? Tom Brady was taken in the sixth round in 2000. Drew Brees was a second rounder (he would have been a late first rounder after the league expanded to 32 teams) in 2001. Ben Roethlisberger was taken at #11 in 2004. Aaron Rodgers was taken at #24 in 2005. Russell Wilson was taken in the third round in 2012. Derek Carr and Jimmy Garoppolo were both taken in the second round in 2014. Dak Prescott in the fourth round in 2016. Patrick Mahomes was taken #10 and DeShaun Watson #12 in 2017. Lamar Jackson was taken #32 in 2018. That's a quarter of the starting QBs -- all of them are quality starters -- who were drafted at #10 or worse. Add in supersubs Teddy Bridgewater who was taken #32 in 2014 (who was a starter in Minnesota before a near-career ending injury), Jacoby Brissett who was taken in the third round in 2016 and has played well for the Colts, and UDFA Kyle Allen in Carolina. Meanwhile, 2014's #3 pick Blake Bortles is a backup; 2015's #1 and #2 picks, Jameis Winston and Marcus Mariota, are likely done as starters; and 2017's #3 pick Mitch Trubisky is struggling. None of the 2018 first round QBs taken before Lamar Jackson -- including #1 pick Baker Mayfield -- have played even half as well. A team doesn't have to tank to get a good QB. They have to be able to recognize talent and be bold enough to grab it when it falls into their laps. Again, it ain't tanking, it's rebuilding. And no, you don't have to get a high draft position to get a good QB. But doing so raises your odds of getting a good QB, and gets you a better chance of picking better players in every other round as well. Not all or most franchise QBs were taken first. But most were taken in the first round. If your team team decided to reload instead of rebuild because they figured #11 would be high enough to draft Pat Mahomes ... your team will beat themselves to death for years. Drafting higher helps. It certainly does NOT guarantee you'll get the right guy or that you'll get a high enough pick to get the guy you want. But it gives you better options in every single round.
ROCBillsBeliever Posted November 16, 2019 Posted November 16, 2019 15 hours ago, Limeaid said: Some people are more likely made of vodka, Genesee beer or Stromboli. I know during certain period of college I was likely 1/5 vodka since I typically drank a 1/5 every night. Righteous, ha ha!
SoTier Posted November 16, 2019 Posted November 16, 2019 39 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said: Again, it ain't tanking, it's rebuilding. And no, you don't have to get a high draft position to get a good QB. But doing so raises your odds of getting a good QB, and gets you a better chance of picking better players in every other round as well. Not all or most franchise QBs were taken first. But most were taken in the first round. If your team team decided to reload instead of rebuild because they figured #11 would be high enough to draft Pat Mahomes ... your team will beat themselves to death for years. Drafting higher helps. It certainly does NOT guarantee you'll get the right guy or that you'll get a high enough pick to get the guy you want. But it gives you better options in every single round. Then, if your team is smart, they take DeShaun Watson, so it still works. What doesn''t work is your team trading out of the #10 slot when there are two bonafide top QBs are available and they need a franchise QB in order to take a DB because they let their top DB walk away in free agency.
jrober38 Posted November 16, 2019 Posted November 16, 2019 12 hours ago, auburnbillsbacker said: Tanking is more important. If you get the right QB the culture will improve as the team wins more gamea. Maybe. It all depends on drafting the right QB, and that doesn't always mean having the #1 overall pick.
Steptide Posted November 16, 2019 Posted November 16, 2019 On 11/15/2019 at 9:13 AM, Iron Maiden said: Ryan Fitzpatrick has career earnings of close to $60M......think about that for a moment.... I'd say that's pretty fair. He's been in the NFL for 15 years. That's 4 million a year, and some teams (ie bills) he was the starter. I don't think that's all that crazy.
Wayne Arnold Posted November 16, 2019 Posted November 16, 2019 Just more reason to love Fitz. Tua going to Miami would be a kick in the nuts. After Sunday, I hope Fitz and the Phins keep winning.
klos63 Posted November 16, 2019 Posted November 16, 2019 I wonder if the announcers will talk about his beard again. Always insightful and interesting.
Doc Brown Posted November 16, 2019 Posted November 16, 2019 If the Fins miss out on Tua then I applaud Ryan Fitzpatrick. It's like in 2011 when the Fins had to settle for Ryan Tannehill instead of Andrew Luck because they refused to tank after starting 0-7. I can see Justin Herbert or Jake Fromm being the new Ryan Tannehill.
CaptnCoke11 Posted November 16, 2019 Posted November 16, 2019 (edited) Well with News breaking about Tuas injury being the same as Bo Jackson’s that ended his career could shake things up at the top next April. Edited November 16, 2019 by CaptnCoke11
PatsFanNH Posted November 16, 2019 Posted November 16, 2019 4 hours ago, Wayne Arnold said: Just more reason to love Fitz. Tua going to Miami would be a kick in the nuts. After Sunday, I hope Fitz and the Phins keep winning. Depending on the injury Tua could fall in the draft now..
Gugny Posted November 16, 2019 Posted November 16, 2019 9 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said: Depending on the injury Tua could fall in the draft now.. Thanks for the hot take, Rodak. 1 1
PatsFanNH Posted November 16, 2019 Posted November 16, 2019 27 minutes ago, Gugny said: Thanks for the hot take, Rodak. Hey a dislocated hip could hurt his draft stock.. besides I don’t think that’s who they are looking at for a QB.
CircleTheWagons99 Posted November 16, 2019 Posted November 16, 2019 If they really wanted to tank they would be starting Rosen. 4 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said: Hey a dislocated hip could hurt his draft stock.. besides I don’t think that’s who they are looking at for a QB. From what I have been hearing, Tua May not get to have an NFL career at all now.
Bing Bong Posted November 17, 2019 Posted November 17, 2019 Fitz will get you wins. I don't think much of him but he does have a knack for winning a few games all by his lonesome
BigDingus Posted November 17, 2019 Posted November 17, 2019 4 hours ago, klos63 said: I wonder if the announcers will talk about his beard again. Always insightful and interesting. I don't know, I feel like announcers spend at least a quarter of each game talking about how great a player & teammate Frank Gore is. Seriously, just wait until he has his first run. Nobody on the Bills gets even close to the amount of attention, no matter what they're doing on the field lol
PatsFanNH Posted November 17, 2019 Posted November 17, 2019 15 hours ago, CircleTheWagons99 said: If they really wanted to tank they would be starting Rosen. From what I have been hearing, Tua May not get to have an NFL career at all now. That sucks if it is true! I hope he still has a career in the NFL.
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