Warcodered Posted November 15, 2019 Posted November 15, 2019 4 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: Just because there are crooked officials and agents in Ukraine (as there are everywhere) does not mean we can’t trust any Ukrainian. Surely you understand that distinction? Or are you just going to devolve into a pure troll? Right so the ones that say the things you agree with are the good ones and the ones that don't are the bad ones, good to know. Right I'm a troll, you post contradicting conspiracy theories but I'm the troll.
Deranged Rhino Posted November 15, 2019 Author Posted November 15, 2019 Just now, Warcodered said: Right so the ones that say the things you agree with are the good ones and the ones that don't are the bad ones, good to know. Again. That's not what I said, nor what I'm saying. If you want to reduce everything down to the absurd, you're just proving that you're not a serious person. Just now, Warcodered said: Right I'm a troll, you post contradicting conspiracy theories but I'm the troll. False. There's nothing contradictory about what I've posted on the Ukraine. Considering your last three comments, regardless of what I said you have gone out of your way to misinterpret it.
Warcodered Posted November 15, 2019 Posted November 15, 2019 Just now, Deranged Rhino said: Again. That's not what I said, nor what I'm saying. If you want to reduce everything down to the absurd, you're just proving that you're not a serious person. False. There's nothing contradictory about what I've posted on the Ukraine. You've posted that it wasn't hacked and then have also posted that the hackers are actually agents of Ukraine.
Deranged Rhino Posted November 15, 2019 Author Posted November 15, 2019 1 minute ago, Warcodered said: You've posted that it wasn't hacked and then have also posted that the hackers are actually agents of Ukraine. Again, that's incorrect. The fingerprints left behind in the forensic investigation, done by CrowdStrike, is the only evidence suggesting a hack. What I've said is that evidence was likely fabricated using Ukrainian cyber weapons. The emails were leaked, and the planting of digital fingerprints was done to cover up that fact. Because if the world knew (or learns) that there was never a Russian hack to begin with, the entire narrative crumbles to dust... and there's a few dead bodies to account for. You're in a rush to dismiss things without first understanding the points and issues being made. You can do better. And I hope you do. 1
Warcodered Posted November 15, 2019 Posted November 15, 2019 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: Again, that's incorrect. The fingerprints left behind in the forensic investigation, done by CrowdStrike, is the only evidence suggesting a hack. What I've said is that evidence was likely fabricated using Ukrainian cyber weapons. The emails were leaked, and the planting of digital fingerprints was done to cover up that fact. Because if the world knew (or learns) that there was never a Russian hack to begin with, the entire narrative crumbles to dust... and there's a few dead bodies to account for. You're in a rush to dismiss things without first understanding the points and issues being made. You can do better. And I hope you do. Right because the Russian co-founder(that's right there is another guy from the good old U.S. of A. not to mention a ton of employees.) of CrowdStrike that moved to Canada when he was 14 and graduated from College in the U.S. is secretly a Ukrainian agent. And while being the security company hired by the DNC preceded to fake hack them in a way that left evidence that they weren't hacked even though since they were the ones looking for hackers they could of just done it. Though that's going along with your theory that it couldn't be hacked because these guys say so: On 10/23/2019 at 8:25 PM, Deranged Rhino said: Even though the guy the video is specifically about is actually one of the members of that group that wrote the dissenting opinion. Edited November 15, 2019 by Warcodered
Deranged Rhino Posted November 15, 2019 Author Posted November 15, 2019 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Warcodered said: Right because the Russian co-founder(that's right there is another guy from the good old U.S. of A. not to mention a ton of employees.) of CrowdStrike that moved to Canada when he was 14 and graduated from College in the U.S. is secretly a Ukrainian agent. That's a much more common tale among spooks than you understand. And it's not a secret within the USIC -- they're allies. 35 minutes ago, Warcodered said: And while being the security company hired by the DNC preceded to fake hack them in a way that left evidence that they weren't hacked even though since they were the ones looking for hackers they could of just done it. Proving your own ignorance on the technical facts of the case is all you're doing now. The evidence left behind was a digital fingerprint which, too neatly, leads back to GRU tools. That would be compelling if not for Vault 7. If you don't know what Vault 7 is, and you clearly do not, you should look into it. The metadata analyzed by VIPs did not come from CrowdStrike or its reports. It came from the examination of the data attached to the WikiLeak documents themselves. Per the rest: CrowdStrike did not act on their own, they were given an assignment to complete and did it to protect their (biggest) client. Not the DNC or DCCC, but the DoD. Why do you think the FBI was never allowed access to the physical servers? Why do you think the FBI was forced to rely on a draft (not even final) forensic report written by a party who had a massive financial stake in the outcome of said report? Have you ever really stopped to ask those questions? If not, why not? 35 minutes ago, Warcodered said: Though that's going along with your theory that it couldn't be hacked because these guys say so: Even though the guy the video is specifically about is actually one of the members of that group that wrote the dissenting opinion. Why do you think I linked that video if not to explain better who Drake and Binney are and how their expertise matters in terms of VIPs analysis? Again, you're conflating two different things because you really do not understand the topic you're trying to belittle me for understanding better than you. I put in the time required to not only dig through this material (and it's a lot) but to understand as best I can the technical elements of this (which, for a non tech guy, was not easy). Context is crucial here, because the media has gone out of it's way to hide this information from you, and to muddy it up with the tag of being "conspiracy theory" which scares off the sheep. Don't be a sheep. Think for yourself. Edited November 15, 2019 by Deranged Rhino 1 3
Warcodered Posted November 15, 2019 Posted November 15, 2019 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: That's a much more common tale among spooks than you understand. And it's not a secret within the USIC -- they're allies. Quote Proving your own ignorance on the technical facts of the case is all you're doing now. The evidence left behind was a digital fingerprint which, too neatly, leads back to GRU tools. That would be compelling if not for Vault 7. If you don't know what Vault 7 is, and you clearly do not, you should look into it. The metadata analyzed by VIPs did not come from CrowdStrike or its reports. It came from the examination of the data attached to the WikiLeak documents themselves. Per the rest: CrowdStrike did not act on their own, they were given an assignment to complete and did it to protect their (biggest) client. Not the DNC or DCCC, but the DoD. Why do you think the FBI was never allowed access to the physical servers? Why do you think the FBI was forced to rely on a draft (not even final) forensic report written by a party who had a massive financial stake in the outcome of said report? Have you ever really stopped to ask those questions? If not, why not? So the United States Intelligence Community, the Department of Defense, and Ukraine all worked together to create a fake narrative that Russia hacked the DNC....and you don't think that's a conspiracy theory. This is probably where there's really no point in us debating I don't believe this and what the hell could I possibly say to change your mind when you think agencies capable of faking anything are involved. 28 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: Why do you think I linked that video if not to explain better who Drake and Binney are and how their expertise matters in terms of VIPs analysis? But Drake doesn't agree with your theory he wrote the dissenting opinion that they don't normally do but him and others in this group felt compelled to do so. 28 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: Again, you're conflating two different things because you really do not understand the topic you're trying to belittle me for understanding better than you. I put in the time required to not only dig through this material (and it's a lot) but to understand as best I can the technical elements of this (which, for a non tech guy, was not easy). Context is crucial here, because the media has gone out of it's way to hide this information from you, and to muddy it up with the tag of being "conspiracy theory" which scares off the sheep. Don't be a sheep. Think for yourself You've yet to show me a credible source for any of this. I hate to tell you this but you're not some special snow flake, you haven't escaped the matrix, or cracked the great secret to reveal the mystery, you've looked through the internet for an alternative theory to things and the internet being the internet provided you with one. Edited November 15, 2019 by Warcodered
Deranged Rhino Posted November 15, 2019 Author Posted November 15, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Warcodered said: So the United States Intelligence Community, the Department of Defense, and Ukraine all worked together to create a fake narrative that Russia hacked the DNC....and you don't think that's a conspiracy theory. It's backed by fact. OS intelligence, testimony, emails, and FISC opinion memos. It's not a theory at all, it's just good ol' fashioned conspiracy. Again, this isn't me telling you to believe me -- this is me telling you to look at the evidence and judge for yourself. 8 minutes ago, Warcodered said: This is probably where there's really no point in us debating I don't believe this and what the hell could I possibly say to change your mind when you think agencies capable of faking anything are involved. If you don't think the USIC, or half the IC's in the world, can't fake digital fingerprints then you really do not understand the cyber warfare capabilities at play every day. 8 minutes ago, Warcodered said: But Drake doesn't agree with your theory he wrote the dissenting opinion that they don't normally do but him and others in this group felt compelled to do so. Drake raises good points, and should be considered along with Binney -- whom disagrees. There's more evidence to back Binney's side up than Drake's. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't be aware of Drake's opinion. Again, I'm for looking at all the material -- from all sides -- and then discerning for myself what is more plausible/accurate/real. I am only prodding you to do the same. 8 minutes ago, Warcodered said: You've yet to show me a credible source for any of this. There are literally hundreds of posts and pages on this forum wherein I provided the evidence. It's all there for you to read. I'm not going to spoon feed you. 8 minutes ago, Warcodered said: I hate to tell you this but you're not some special snow flake, you haven't escaped the matrix, or cracked the great secret to reveal the mystery - I've never said I was. In fact, I've repeatedly said the opposite. 8 minutes ago, Warcodered said: you've looked through the internet for an alternative theory to things and the internet being the internet provided you with one. Incorrect. I wasn't looking for this theory at all. In fact, I was trying to disprove it. Edited November 15, 2019 by Deranged Rhino 1 2
Warcodered Posted November 15, 2019 Posted November 15, 2019 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: If you don't think the USIC, or half the IC's in the world, can't fake digital fingerprints then you really do not understand the cyber warfare capabilities at play every day. This is essentially the point I was making, anything I bring here to refute your conspiracy would be easily written off as faked/orchestrated by the USIC or they're a part of the conspiracy. Not to mention but this statement you just made basically contradicts the other arguments you're making. Also is Russian Intelligence just magically not on that list? 17 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: Drake raises good points, and should be considered along with Binney -- whom disagrees. There's more evidence to back Binney's side up than Drake's. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't be aware of Drake's opinion. Again, I'm for looking at all the material -- from all sides -- and then discerning for myself what is more plausible/accurate/real. I am only prodding you to do the same. 17 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: If you don't think the USIC, or half the IC's in the world, can't fake digital fingerprints then you really do not understand the cyber warfare capabilities at play every day. So what did they just ***** up faking it or is this entire debate between the two completely irrelevant. Edited November 15, 2019 by Warcodered
KRC Posted November 15, 2019 Posted November 15, 2019 What's the over/under on when Yovanovitch brings out the waterworks for the cameras? 1 1
dickleyjones Posted November 15, 2019 Posted November 15, 2019 @Deranged Rhino thanks for the synopsis. I hope the US can heal after all this. In Canada we are facing a similar kind of "division". A very small minority of people on each "side" are loud and get media attention and clicks making it seem like everyone's going nuts, the west is gonna secede, corruption is a new thing, mudslinging is more important than policy, any scandal is the nail in the coffin, etc. My take is the media is enabling it all for dollars, and politicians buy into it because being silent is death (not that it should be). Teaching kids self control and critical thinking might help the next generation destroy this monster we have created. 1 1
snafu Posted November 15, 2019 Posted November 15, 2019 46 minutes ago, KRC said: What's the over/under on when Yovanovitch brings out the waterworks for the cameras? At the point of her opening statement when she recounts the mysterious 1:00am phone call telling her she has to come back to the US. The one where they didn’t ask the caller to explain why she made that call and used those words. Because they only want one side of the story. 1
Buffalo_Gal Posted November 15, 2019 Posted November 15, 2019 9 hours ago, Warcodered said: Right of course no one on here has posted about an elaborate conspiracy with Ukraine trying to manipulate our elections/government that'd be crazy. ? I don't know the last time I talked with someone about the Ukraine conspiracy I got given an article from a site that had also posted an article on 9/11 being an inside job and weirdly enough seemed to have a pretty heavy bias on it. Ukraine "conspiracy"? Which part do you consider a "conspiracy"?Ukraine Courts You can find information on the black ledger documents (payments by the Party of Regions) "led to interference in the electoral processes of the United States in 2016 and harmed the interests of Ukraine as a state." Here's some light reading about the money laundering: PrivatBank (note: I "think" London papers may have more on this. It is a non-reported story in the US.) The Ukraine thread, the Russian thread, and the deep state thread are all good places to start. Once you have read those threads, followed the breadcrumb trails, and educated yourself you will be a happier fellow. ? 9 hours ago, ExiledInIllinois said: I am not whining... Just funny. I guess that justifies you jumping in. You have a Hollywood script writer for your primary source. Nice! Ummm click some of those links I just posted. ? Always try and go to source documents (in this case the Ukraine courts). 1
RoyBatty is alive Posted November 15, 2019 Posted November 15, 2019 12 hours ago, Doc said: Yeah, until Trump, corruption never existed. And again why is it okay to make up dirt on Trump in an effort to try and remove him from office but not okay to investigate a guy running for President who had some shady dealing while he was VP? Yeah because after all Clinton and the Clinton foundation there was no, i mean n corruption at all. The Clinton Foundation is one of the biggest money luandering scheme of all time. 1
Albwan Posted November 15, 2019 Posted November 15, 2019 Why don't they pipe in some sad music to accompany this
Gary M Posted November 15, 2019 Posted November 15, 2019 12 hours ago, ExiledInIllinois said: In business it isn't necessarily illegal to get dirt on your competition. It is in gov't against your political rivals the way Trump was attempting. I think there is a huge difference between digging up dirt (pee tape, grab them by the pu$$y video) and criminal investigations (Biden son working for a company that stole billions in US aid to Ukraine)
Buffalo_Gal Posted November 15, 2019 Posted November 15, 2019 (edited) I missed the start (darn). Yovanovitch was babbling, now Schiffy is up for 45 minutes. (Schiffy cut it way short and went to D counsel) Oh I am glad to see this! I missed it, and wondered why it had not been read in by someone before this. Mollie willing to tell the truth. ? Oh! I missed this this morning too! The first phone call: Edited November 15, 2019 by Buffalo_Gal 1 4
3rdnlng Posted November 15, 2019 Posted November 15, 2019 44 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said: Ukraine "conspiracy"? Which part do you consider a "conspiracy"?Ukraine Courts You can find information on the black ledger documents (payments by the Party of Regions) "led to interference in the electoral processes of the United States in 2016 and harmed the interests of Ukraine as a state." Here's some light reading about the money laundering: PrivatBank (note: I "think" London papers may have more on this. It is a non-reported story in the US.) The Ukraine thread, the Russian thread, and the deep state thread are all good places to start. Once you have read those threads, followed the breadcrumb trails, and educated yourself you will be a happier fellow. ? Ummm click some of those links I just posted. ? Always try and go to source documents (in this case the Ukraine courts). Now you've gone and done it. You interrupted Eric's carp counting and he will forever be an incoherent clown, a victim so to speak.
Buffalo_Gal Posted November 15, 2019 Posted November 15, 2019 Same point, but Sean's tweet will get more discussion: 4
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