Offensive Talent

[OZBILLS]

2 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Every draft since Coach McDermott arrived we have taken a defensive player in the first round.  I suspect we will again until proven otherwise.

If that D selection can stop the Run then I'm all for this continuing. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

4 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

 

This is my concern with Beane. After arriving he jettisoned Sammy and didn't sign Woods (may be he couldn't, don't know).  He then subsequently cleaned house further.

 

It has now been 2 FA periods and 2 drafts and this is the best he can do replenish a pretty talented roster that was top 10 in points 2 years running?  McDermott even had a draft before that. The only WR drafted has been Ray Ray in the 5th round.  After 2 years they had only two starters worth keeping.  Disturbing.

 

This year will be the offensive year.  Where have I heard that before?

 

Singletary, Brown, and Beasley are a nice start 3 years in.  Josh remains to be seen. After 3 years I would think we should be further along.

 

Two years. Beane has been here for two drafts.

[vincec]

13 hours ago, uticaclub said:

you can overcome lack of talent with good coaching, unfortunately the only thing weaker than talent on this team is coaching 

I agree that the Bills have average to below average overall talent. They jettisoned most of their established players when the new regime got here and are building back very slowly, primarily using the draft. They're $25mm under the salary cap. However they are 6-3 so to me that says that they must be getting pretty good coaching. Yes, they are playing weak teams, but they are beating them. If they had bad talent AND bad coaching they'd be a 1 or 2 win team, like the Redskins for example.

[Xwnyer]

13 hours ago, dorquemada said:

 

Also, if they dont address the middle of their D, they're going nowhere ever.

 

Basically, at 6-2 we were all wanting them to be as good as that record.  They're not.  Too many holes and with coaching that seems to highlight the holes rather than hide them

middle of the D is not performing well and we have a CB that is getting killed weekly.    Hopefully that cap money and picks will yield better resi=ults but this draft class in underproducing

 

[colin]

12 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

 

How is Lamar Jackson not a good passer?  15 TDs 5 picks 2036 passing yards and a 101.7 rating 65.9 comp %. Just because he can run doesn't mean he can't pass.   I wish we had a QB that was that bad at passing.

 

he can throw a decent long ball, but he's getting these off because of the misdirection the O is forcing the d into.

 

baltimore is dictating to the D what they are going to do.  coward fatbol is just doing whatever the d forces him into.

[MAJBobby]

11 hours ago, Rock'em Sock'em said:

 

In 2019 we added nine new starters on offense and a few other role players.  It's not like they have ignored that side of the ball.  In fact, it's quite the opposite.  I put a (T) next to the ones I see as "Talent".  The others are mostly upgrades from last year.  In 2020 we have $90M in cap space.  I'd expect an elite player to be added to the offense and another on defense (AJ Green/Ngakoue) types.  They tried and luckily failed to get Antonio Brown this year.  What more should they have done?  Keep McCoy?  Trade first round picks for AJ Green, Diggs or Gordon?  Trade a second round pick for Sanu?

• Ford
• Singletary (T) - ? (we actually won't know until they play him more....)
• Knox
• Beasley (T)
• Brown (T)
• Kroft
• Feliciano (T)
• Morse (T)
• Spain (T)
• Nsekhe

so treading water.
 

Brown and Beasley = Wood and Watkins maybe. 

knox - clay

kroft - Pick any TE they had previously 

Singletary - McCoy

Spain - Incognito 

Morse - Woods

 

so upgrades I see some small contracts 

Nsekhe

Felciano

 

and Ford. 
 

so really they added a QB and still treaded water elsewhere 

[uticaclub]

3 hours ago, vincec said:

I agree that the Bills have average to below average overall talent. They jettisoned most of their established players when the new regime got here and are building back very slowly, primarily using the draft. They're $25mm under the salary cap. However they are 6-3 so to me that says that they must be getting pretty good coaching. Yes, they are playing weak teams, but they are beating them. If they had bad talent AND bad coaching they'd be a 1 or 2 win team, like the Redskins for example.

We are closer to being a 2 win team then a legit playoff contender and that’s the sad truth, we grinded out wins against the teams picking in the Top 5 of the draft & the a Titans in the last game Marriota finished, but we never looked like a team in control, like a decent team does against bad teams. 6-3 is great & if we make the playoffs, then coaching gets more credit and I might believe the process, but this is year 3, we should be making strides not needing last second INTs to beat Cinny or losing to Cleveland

Edited November 13, 2019 by uticaclub

[T master]

At the beginning of the year with all the new pieces to the offense being brought in i thought it would take time especially for the O line to gel & that by mid season we would start to see some improvement & then closer to the end of the year they would be hitting on all cylinders & showing what they can really do .

 

To answer your question that is what i am hoping for because i believe the talent is there & we have seen flashes of (if used correctly by the coaches) these guys can make plays & score points but i think the coaches on offense are struggling as much if not more as to how to use the players they have !

 

A lot of coaches formulate their scheme around the strength of their players & by trying to make Josh a pocket passer i think that is hurting him, trying to run Gore around the end is no longer his thing run him between the tackles & use Dimarco as the old style FB in the run game, & Singletary is crucial to getting him going too!

 

Singletary was drafted because of his ability to "make people miss in a phone booth" so as they say, Just Do It !! 

 

The have the talent !

[Buffalo Junction]

1 hour ago, MAJBobby said:

so treading water.
 

Brown and Beasley = Wood and Watkins maybe. 

knox - clay

kroft - Pick any TE they had previously 

Singletary - McCoy

Spain - Incognito 

Morse - Woods

 

so upgrades I see some small contracts 

Nsekhe

Felciano

 

and Ford. 
 

so really they added a QB and still treaded water elsewhere 

For the most part. Although one could argue that Beasley and Brown are an improvement because they’re available, and Wood was out the door no matter what. 
 

Knox is flashing talent, so he might be an upgrade as well... If he didn’t drop the ball as much we’d all agree that he’s a definitive upgrade over Clay. 
 

I want to see if they add some blue chip talent in FA this year. I’m not sure if there are any RTs available, but letting Spain go and replacing him with Scherff would be a move. Dallas likely isn’t going to be able to sign Dak, Cooper, and Byron Jones... Either of the latter two would be a massive upgrade, and I could see Dak getting franchised. Ngakoue or Clowney would also be an upgrade... I just want at least one position group to be settled and above average across the board. Most of these players will get massive contracts, so it will be telling if Beane makes a play for any of these guys. Heck, I’d be happy with Suh on a decent deal because he’d bring some edginess to our DL. 

[reddogblitz]

10 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Two years. Beane has been here for two drafts.

 

that's what I said.

 

Quote

It has now been 2 FA periods and 2 drafts and this is the best he (Beane) can do replenish a pretty talented roster that was top 10 in points 2 years running?  McDermott even had a draft before that.

 

Beane 2.  McDermott 3.  But Beane did make plenty of personnel moves after he got here.

 

So 3 years/3 drafts all together for McDermott and/or Beane.  That was my point.  Offensive talent level is far from where it should be after 3 years of the regime IMHO.  Do you disagree?

Edited November 13, 2019 by reddogblitz

[ILBillsfan]

A true number one WR would be nice that can win 50/50 balls and break man coverage and this offense explodes imo 

[Rock'em Sock'em]

21 hours ago, Fan in Chicago said:

How about acquiring Emmanuel Sanders ?

 

Maybe.  Effectively a 3rd round pick / $7M contract for a nine week rental.  Or we can sign Sanders after the season and keep the pick.  Based on where we are, I do prefer the steady growth mindset over making long term sacrifices for a short term bump.  I want what gets us to a consistent every year contender - even if it means waiting for our team to develop.  It's a fun ride at times.  It's going to be awesome when it happens.

[Dkollidas]

I think they can but it’s tough because of a few factors:

 

1) Allen’s “rawness”- you can see it in spurts. Last season he showed flashes like the Minnesota game, mostly on the ground. Then he started hitting big plays through the air after he came back from injury. This year his short game has improved, but the mistakes were still there. The past 4 games he’s cut down his critical errors but is unable to hit the deep ball. I think a lot of it is him just overcompensating in certain areas and it might take another off-season, gaining some more chemistry, and some added weapons to make that happen.

 

2) Chemistry: this may actually work in their favor. But at this point this group hasn’t had a lot of time together. The only starters from last season are Allen & Dawkins. That’s a major overhaul. The O-Line is still gelling. Allen is still learning tendencies of his receivers and vice versa. Singletary is still adjusting to the NFL, and was stagnated from his injury. 

 

3) Lack of talent: Brown has been a pleasant addition, and Beasley is decent. But while Singeltary shows flashes and the TE’s are a constant work in progress. This team, and Allen in particular, could really use a #1 receiver, particularly a bigger, speedy target who can win those contested catch battles. I’d love to see them draft a Tee Higgins or Laviska Shenault. 

 

But there are reasons for hope:

 

1) Allen is still developing- this week may have been a lesson for him that he still needs to take some risks. He’s been very vanilla since the New England game. I get it, he knows he has a good defense and wants to limit errors. But he needs to let it loose as well. 

 

2) Singletary- he could be a key to opening the floodgates for this offense. He’s dynamic and seems to be s dynamic player who doesn’t often get negative plays either, which is s big bonus.

 

3)  Chemistry- As i stated, this is one of the reasons for pessimism, but also one for optimism. Maybe the group hits s point where they aren’t killing drives with mental errors (pre-play penalties) or turnovers, but are still aggressive enough to make consistent plays. 

[Rock'em Sock'em]

11 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

so really they added a QB and still treaded water elsewhere

 

Yes, plus the $90M in cap space we now have going into next year. Stay tuned...

Edited November 14, 2019 by Rock'em Sock'em

[NFLBighits]

On 11/12/2019 at 3:42 PM, MAJBobby said:

I would say Yep Coaching is partially to blame.  But Harrison Phillips going down hurt this team more than people realize.

Would be nice if we could pull Kyle Williams out of retirement wouldn't!!!!!!!!!!!??️??

[mjt328]

On 11/12/2019 at 3:49 PM, MAJBobby said:

Really????  OK So Which of these WRs is a No 1 on another team?  RT is still not very good, this OL has issues in pass pro, cannot block a screen to save their life, horrible in short yardage.  What Draft picks have the used on Offense?  So they went and signed a couple short contract WRs and OL.  

 

On most teams, John Brown is probably a #2 and Cole Beasley is probably a #3.

No doubt they could use another WR.  That does not mean their struggles are strictly due to a lack of talent.

 

Right Tackle is still not very good, but not because of a lack of investment.  Cody Ford was our #2 pick.  He just hasn't developed quickly in his first year.

 

In terms of using picks on offense.... They literally tore apart the roster upon arriving, just to give themselves the opportunity to amass picks and get a Top 10 Quarterback.  Did you happen to miss that 12-15 months?  They used 3 of their top 4 picks on offense this year.  Ford, Devon Singletary and Dawson Knox.  They also focused 99% of their effort in free agency on the offense.  Brown, Beasley, Tyler Kroft, Mitch Morse, Quinton Spain, Jon Feliciano, Ty Nsekhe, Spencer Long. 

 

If you want to complain these guys are no good, then fine.  But don't say our front office doesn't care about offense, or refuses to invest in it.

 

On 11/12/2019 at 7:48 PM, BADOLBILZ said:

I get where you are coming from.........it makes sense to think that it's not the talent because they are getting some long drives........but I still think it's talent.

 

IMO what we are seeing in the long drives is Daboll is calling a lot of well designed plays that are creating opportunities.................and when they are executing they are moving the ball.

 

But the style is just proving very hard to pull off.   

 

It's a complicated offense/gameplan every week and subsequently too much room for errors to be made and between the mistakes and the constant search for the next gotcha' play on the sheet they can't get a rhythm going.   Rhythm and tempo are very underrated aspects in good offense........especially for a young QB. 

 

And ultimately I think it comes down to Daboll and McD feeling like they gotta' play it this way because they lack natural matchup advantages to just line up and run a small group of plays over and over.   

 

Talent could definitely be better.  No disagreement there.

 

I'm just saying, I think the guys on this roster are good enough to put points on the board.  

There is enough talent to not be bottom 5 in the NFL.

 

[Chicken Boo]

I knew this would happen.  Yet this very board insisted that we didn't need to draft a WR because we were set and that RBs are a dime a dozen, like you could find one in the parking lot.

 

Look at you now.

 

And I'll spare you the suspense.  Beane and McDermott will bumble the offensive side of the ball like they have since they arrived.

[Chicken Boo]

On 11/12/2019 at 11:47 PM, TheyCallMeAndy said:

This message board is so much fun when the team loses. 

 

Shame the season is over at 6-3.

 

Last week you were probably dismissing glaring problems on this team, while pointing at the 6-2 record.  

 

It'll be interesting to hear your take in about 5 weeks.

[MAJBobby]

12 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

 

On most teams, John Brown is probably a #2 and Cole Beasley is probably a #3.

No doubt they could use another WR.  That does not mean their struggles are strictly due to a lack of talent.

 

Right Tackle is still not very good, but not because of a lack of investment.  Cody Ford was our #2 pick.  He just hasn't developed quickly in his first year.

 

In terms of using picks on offense.... They literally tore apart the roster upon arriving, just to give themselves the opportunity to amass picks and get a Top 10 Quarterback.  Did you happen to miss that 12-15 months?  They used 3 of their top 4 picks on offense this year.  Ford, Devon Singletary and Dawson Knox.  They also focused 99% of their effort in free agency on the offense.  Brown, Beasley, Tyler Kroft, Mitch Morse, Quinton Spain, Jon Feliciano, Ty Nsekhe, Spencer Long. 

 

If you want to complain these guys are no good, then fine.  But don't say our front office doesn't care about offense, or refuses to invest in it.

 

 

Talent could definitely be better.  No disagreement there.

 

I'm just saying, I think the guys on this roster are good enough to put points on the board.  

There is enough talent to not be bottom 5 in the NFL.

 

 

Why Did they tear this team down did they have too?  They Finally invested in Offense THIS Offseason, but then again Hedge it where did the the 1st go?  Hell even in Allens Draft what happened did they use that other first to get a OT, a Weapons a TE?  Nope 

 

So I can argue with this regime has treaded water for 3 years and have not made up any ground in the talent level compared to other NFL Franchises.

[mjt328]

18 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Why Did they tear this team down did they have too?  They Finally invested in Offense THIS Offseason, but then again Hedge it where did the the 1st go?  Hell even in Allens Draft what happened did they use that other first to get a OT, a Weapons a TE?  Nope 

 

Yes.  They needed to tear this team down.  

Brandon Beane knew we needed a Quarterback to take the next step.  He suspected we would need extra capitol, just in case our record was too good to land the QB prospect he wanted.  And he was correct.  Without trading Sammy Watkins and Cordy Glenn, they wouldn't have gotten high enough to draft Josh Allen.

 

If you go back to the 2018 offseason, both sides of the ball were in desperate need of help.  People were screaming about us needing a new DE, DT, LB and CB.  Instead of splitting it 50-50, they went almost entirely defense in 2018 and then almost entirely offense in 2019.  And I would definitely consider drafting Allen an investment in the offense.  Ed Oliver just happened to be the BPA (it really wasn't close in most people's minds) and we actually needed a DT with Kyle Williams retiring.  The rest of the offseason was offense, offense, offense.

 

Why does it matter so much to you whether they addressed OT and TE in 2018 or in 2019?  It's just a reason to complain, and has nothing to do with our performance.  The front office is clearly making efforts to upgrade the roster everywhere.  

 

 

Quote

So I can argue with this regime has treaded water for 3 years and have not made up any ground in the talent level compared to other NFL Franchises.

 

And I can argue this was an 8-8 level roster before they arrived, with no playoff appearances in 17 years, with no franchise QB and with a totally maxed-out salary cap.

 

Now they are on pace for their second playoff appearance in 3 seasons, they now have a Top 10 drafted quarterback on the roster (hopefully) growing and developing, and now have among the most salary cap space in the league.

 

The win-loss record hasn't increased dramatically yet, because we needed to take a step back BEFORE taking a step forward.

 

 

Edited November 14, 2019 by mjt328