The Athletic - Cover 1's breakdown of the game, more Allen than Daboll. Also adding some C1 & YPP twitter clips

[WideNine]

I like these breakdowns, and don't take too much offense. In Daboll's offense the QB has to be able to do a lot of processing of pre-snap reads and select from a lot of option routes to find the open man. 

 

It is a lot to ask from Allen at this point, but they seem determined to have him become an OC on the field and there are going to be growing pains

 

What Cover 1 does well is explain how a play is schemed to be open downfield, and how teams are pressuring with blitz packages.

 

Not sure I am looking for them to get to deep into offensive philosophy, but considering the blitzes, disguised looks, and spies taking away hot reads and outlet options, that is when I run Singletary more than 8 times to slow things down a bit for my young QB.

 

I hope Daboll figures out where Allen is at and finds ways to simplify things a bit...the kid was drinking from the firehose trying to process what the defense was doing and has been told to not make mistakes. That's a tall order at this point.

 

 

 

 

[RichRiderBills]

3 hours ago, Luka said:

Cover 1 is so full of *****. It's Allen's fault that on a 3rd 3 where the Browns are almost definitely going to blitz, his shortest route option is 10 yards down the field? Daboll knows teams are going to blitz Allen yet here we are, still calling the same, long developing passing plays. You know how you mitigate the pass rush? Run the ***** ball. Call screen passes. Make teams think twice about calling that blitz.

I like your take here, but i dont feel cover 1 is full of *****. A lot of good stuff from them.

[CEN-CAL17]

We’ve seen it where Josh can quickly get the ball out he can easily go 9 of 10 right off the bat. It’s the plays that take time to develop, where all his WRs are 15 yards down the field. He has to shift in the pocket and delivers a bad pass.

 

Im sure after watching film you can find open guys, find mistakes. My point is Daboll needs to help Josh get the ball out quicker.

 

Did nobody see that’s how they helped Baker, get the ball into their play makers hands... quick outs, quickly taking what the defense gives you. Vs let’s keep driving the ball 15 yards down field.

[CEN-CAL17]

They made a huge effort to block Garrett. Which is understood. But a few times they went empty backfield and just let dudes rush up the middle. Vs bring Singletary back, or sprint away from Garrett, in which there was Beasley wide open in the flats on a quick out... but the pressure up the middle Allen went to opposite way and threw the ball away.

[Phil The Thrill]

25 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

That would be anyone's guess.  It kinda goes back, for me, to that guy that was a defensive head coach and when asked what kind of defense he will run the answer was "we are going to be multiple... 4-3, 3-4.... yadda yadda yadda."

 

Another poster put it to words earlier in the thread far better than I will here.... if there is no continuity in what you are trying to do then how are you supposed to get better?  Lets say you suck at playing guitar and you are trying to get better.  You practice guitar today and tomorrow you practice the flute.

 

My thought process is this... Allen has a very long way to go.  That's what happens when you pick up a project QB.  I consider him a project because he didn't play in the awesome of awesome college divisions ( I really know nothing of college football I just know he played in a small time program.)  It's going to be a bigger learning curve for him than another QB that is coming from a big time program who had the best of the best coaching. 

 

Some of those guys coaches are also designing systems, at least in part, around what that QB knows and does well at.  Can you say that about Allen?  Is Dabol's system designed around this QB to help him out?  I don't think so.  I think it's just the system this guy wants to run because he feels its a good system. Be damned who is running it.  Kind of like putting Tyrod in a WCO when clearly that is not what Taylor was good at.  

 

Now maybe his system is freaking great, but even if it is.... people need some patience with this kid. He isn't going to turn into Brady overnight.  Maybe he won't ever turn into a good QB at all, but don't you think it's a little early (you may not be one of these people) to be acting like this kid is a bust?  Maybe in the long run it's better for QB progression to be learning this way as opposed to say how Goff and Jackson are learning.  Time will tell.

 

I just feel like there is more Daboll could be doing to help this kid out in the meantime than he has been. 

This is a very fair take.  I think we’ll have to wait to see how the rest of the season plays out.  We just have to wait to see what McDermott thinks.  

[GG]

3 hours ago, Luka said:

 

I didn't cherry pick anything Cover 1 employee. I stated very basic, very obvious things Daboll could be doing to help Josh out and he isn't. Period. That's on overlying theme for the whole season. 

 

Is that because Daboll doesn't call plays where a receiver is usually open and the QB is too slow to recognize coverage or throw the ball?

 

Because that's what's happening in this offense.  

 

You could make an argument that Daboll should dumb down the offense, but what do you think the effect of that would be with a QB who's having a hard time elevating his game?

[CincyBillsFan]

One thing that drives me crazy about threads like this are the posters who throw out Lamar Jackson as if he would make any difference in Buffalo.  To me it's obvious that had we traded down and taken Jackson it would be a complete cluster frack trying to fit him into a conventional NFL offense.  There is ZERO evidence that Buffalo would have done what Baltimore did and redesigned their entire O around a unique QB talent like Jackson.  It's pure fantasy to think they would have.  It's also a fantasy to think that Jackson could thrive in a conventional offense.

 

Baltimore deserves all the praise in the world for thinking out of the box and taking the risk they did.  It's even more impressive in light of the fact that the Ravens were a playoff caliber team when they took this risk.  And it has worked.  Now the question going forward for Baltimore is whether they can sustain this offense.  Can they develop a back-up QB situation that could keep the boat afloat should Jackson get hurt?  It's not like a conventional O where your back-up can be any one of dozens of QB's.  Jackson is unique and WHEN, not IF, the Ravens face a stretch with Jackson out of the lineup what's the plan?

 

In the case of Buffalo and Allen the question going forward is whether or not Allen is the guy.  Allen is a major project and IMO the risk the Bills took in picking Allen was almost as big as the risk the Ravens took with Jackson. And like Baltimore, the Bill's are going  to be rewarded for taking this risk.  Allen is on the right trajectory and is getting better.  We need to stop obsessing over a play here or there and look at the big picture in judging our QB. 

 

If you break Allen's "career" into logical blocks:  1) pre-injury 2018;  2) post injury 2018;  3)  The first 4 games of 2019;  & the 4)  The last 5 games of 2019 you can clearly see the impressive improvement in his game.  By the end of next year, or sooner, we'll be as happy with Allen as Ravens fans are with Jackson.

 

 

 

 

[Reed83HOF]

7 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Maybe it's just me, but did anyone else find it a bit odd that Erik (Cover1) quotes Allen taking all the blame and agrees, then gives several back to back examples where Allen made the correct read and a good decision and

    1) the pass hits Knox on the hands and he drops it

    2) Allen delivers a catchable ball to Brown and Denzel Ward punches it out of his hands successfully

etc?

 

I think it's important to note that while Allen was tested by the pressure and missed some throws he could have had, he also did a number of things well - which McDermott acknowledged in his post game presser. 

 

Allen is definitley a work in progress, he has gotten better on the back shoulder throws. The things to look for in the coming weeks is Cleveland took the Cheats* blue print on Allen used it and got similar results (minus the INTs). More teams will use this against him/us - the development of this team and establishing an offensive identity is being able to overcome this to change the blue print.

 

I think Erik actually did a good job in discussing Allen doing well on those 2 points you made. I think what came across was odd while reading it, he did start off that way and then went series by series and had to say what was good, but it just didn't tie together well with his preceding statements. I ignored the style and just focused on the points on the plays and watched the plays to see if i saw what he saw and if I had the same or different thoughts....

 

Being later in the day now and seeing Joe B's All-22 review, you see 3 different people critiquing the same/similar things. It's okay to be critical of Josh when it's warranted and discuss it

Edited November 13, 2019 by Reed83HOF

[Reed83HOF]

4 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

McKenzie is just not a complete WR.  They are trying to push him into that role because until/unless he poses a threat on other routes, he's become a "tell" that the Bills will be running some kind of Jet sweep type play.  To his credit, he made a nice reception on a slant pass in the Redskins game.

 

But why the Bills keep trying to use guys as deep ball receivers who just ARE NOT (I'm talking about you, Zay Jones and Cole Beasley, and now McKensie too) I do not know

Lack of confidence or underdeveloped skills (most likely) with the other WRs. IIRC I saw one of the issues with Foster is his inability to track the ball in the air. McKenzie running looking behind him and turning his head side to side certainly slowed him down. So in this game, it is likely due to him not saving enough gas to go get it. 

[Reed83HOF]

4 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

It is the coaches job to create an identity on their side of the ball

 

My instead of was pointing out that we haven't had an identity or consistent gameplanning

 

Josh needs to clean up lots of stuff but he also needs consistent gameplanning and an offensive identity to build around

 

I am not absolving Daboll, but the players do have to execute as well. Like most everything, the answer is somewhere in the middle. The identity that let's say McD and Daboll want is being held up with 9 new players starting on offense, waiting for additional seasoning/development on some players and the development while they are learning is not linear - so it limits what you can call. You also just can't simply call your bread and butter plays all the time - once those get taken away you have nothing at all. Drafting Allen with his skill set, leads me to believe they want to be a passing offense with some smart runs with a dynamic back mixed in. the execution and growth from the players is not there yet and that ties Daboll's hands. If we don't shoot ourselves in the foot with penalties and misreads and missed blocks and the ball is moving, this entire thread and conversation doesn't exist.

 

I will also add in, most playcallers in the NFL have a tendency to make bone headed changes in what is working within the game and completely stall their team out, McVay does it, Shanny does it, it happens all the time...

[Buffalo716]

3 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

 

I am not absolving Daboll, but the players do have to execute as well. Like most everything, the answer is somewhere in the middle. The identity that let's say McD and Daboll want is being held up with 9 new players starting on offense, waiting for additional seasoning/development on some players and the development while they are learning is not linear - so it limits what you can call. You also just can't simply call your bread and butter plays all the time - once those get taken away you have nothing at all. Drafting Allen with his skill set, leads me to believe they want to be a passing offense with some smart runs with a dynamic back mixed in. the execution and growth from the players is not there yet and that ties Daboll's hands. If we don't shoot ourselves in the foot with penalties and misreads and missed blocks and the ball is moving, this entire thread and conversation doesn't exist.

 

I will also add in, most playcallers in the NFL have a tendency to make bone headed changes in what is working within the game and completely stall their team out, McVay does it, Shanny does it, it happens all the time...

Of course and it seems that 2-3 times a game our execution on a first down play results in a big penalty. Whether it's a hold on a good run or on a good pass it holds us back

 

And keeps us out of Rhythm

 

I don't put the blame fully on Daboll because it isn't but he definitely devises some strange gameplans where he seems to out think himself, and others where he is a step ahead

[Reed83HOF]

4 hours ago, Phil The Thrill said:

Well said, my man.  I’ve stated many times that I like Josh, but I also get frustrated by the whole “fire the coordinator” mindset of some Bills fans.   I get that people want to defend Allen because so many in the media constantly criticize him. 

It just seems like people want to #blameDaboll because they don’t to face the unpleasant reality that, the critics might be right.  At this point, we just don’t know.  
 

At this point in the year, do you honestly think that firing Daboll and replacing him with Ken Dorsey or Chad Hall or whoever else is on the staff will make a difference?  I am certain it won’t.  
 

As for next season, I would still bet on Daboll staying.  I think they want as much consistency for Allen as possible and I also think that McDermott is in no danger of getting fired.   Since he’s not desperate I can see him not making a move.  
 

But then again, he voiced that the offense needs to “score more point,” and statement like that reminded me of what he said about Dennison in the season before he fired him.  So who knows.  
 

 

 

All this is, is the 100% development of Josh Allen as a QB. You start off with what you excel at and it eventually is game planned away, much like Josh's rushes this year.

 

 

NE created a blue print on not only Josh, but on our WRs/TEs/OL/RBs as well. Steve Wilks and Cleveland used some of the same concepts and as a QB (and a team) we have yet to be able to overcome them. Once (If) we do, something else will eventually get schemed up and stop us and the further growth and development of Josh Allen, his teammates will then be able to establish an identity and have many ways to beat you - just not there yet. We may not get there with this current group and Allen might not make it either - it is what it is - development of an offense.

 

You might catch a jolt for a game or 2, but you will end up stuck again in the same place....

5 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Of course and it seems that 2-3 times a game our execution on a first down play results in a big penalty. Whether it's a hold on a good run or on a good pass it holds us back

 

And keeps us out of Rhythm

 

I don't put the blame fully on Daboll because it isn't but he definitely devises some strange gameplans where he seems to out think himself, and others where he is a step ahead

Thankfully the penalties have been cleaned up since the Rex and before days. Nothing irritates me more than the pre-snap penalties on offense; inexcusable IMO. Holding 9and PI) can be so subjectively called or ignored - I feel like it comes down to luck and relationships with the officials; it's f-ing stupid...

[Reed83HOF]

3 hours ago, stony said:

I think the FO brought in a bunch of maulers (outside of Morse) to protect Allen.  I don't think mobility is their strength; hence, the reason why we suck at screen passes.    

Teams know Allen is a flight risk to run, so teams are keyed in on that, they use a spy and we haven't developed enough plays we are capable of hitting on offense to get the D to play honest and open it back up for us.

[jrober38]

5 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

QBs don't develop overnight or in 2 games... It's a steady development over years and if you are angry about where Josh is in his development, idk what to tell you because he's way ahead of where I thought he'd be

 

 

 

This was true 20+ years ago.

 

It's not really true anymore.

 

If you don't show you can play really well within 2 years, there's next to no track record of QBs going on to having successful careers as franchise guys over the past 10-15 years. 

[Reed83HOF]

8 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

This was true 20+ years ago.

 

It's not really true anymore.

 

If you don't show you can play really well within 2 years, there's next to no track record of QBs going on to having successful careers as franchise guys over the past 10-15 years. 

See Brees & Alex Smith (that's it though)

[Buffalo716]

8 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

This was true 20+ years ago.

 

It's not really true anymore.

 

If you don't show you can play really well within 2 years, there's next to no track record of QBs going on to having successful careers as franchise guys over the past 10-15 years. 

How long are you willing to go back? Even Rodgers sat the bench for 3 full seasons and he definitely benefited because he needed it

[jrober38]

 

2 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

See Brees & Alex Smith (that's it though)

 

Plus Eli Manning. You can make a case for Matt Stafford but he got hurt his second year even though he started that season well.

 

Those four names are the only ones that really apply. Three of which were #1 overall picks. 

[Questionable]

3 hours ago, Logic said:

On the contrary: watching, say, 7 different plays from one game where receivers are open and Allen isn't hitting them DOES begin to tell a story. The story is "our quarterback needs to improve".

I could just as easily state that IGNORING visual evidence of poor play and fixating only on play-calling doesn't tell the whole story, only the narrative you want to push.

Again: I don't think all the blame is on Allen. I don't think all the blame is on Daboll. BOTH OF THEM aren't performing well. But it certainly is hard to tell how much of Allen's poor performance is due to Daboll calling bad plays, and how much it just APPEARS that Daboll is calling a bad game because the QB can't execute his gameplan. It's really hard to separate these things. It's a complex relationship. And yet, we have plenty of Bills fans who are certain that it's just Daboll that's to blame. It's ridiculous.

This may help clear it up. 

 

 

[Reed83HOF]

3 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

 

Plus Eli Manning. You can make a case for Matt Stafford but he got hurt his second year even though he started that season well.

 

Those four names are the only ones that really apply. Three of which were #1 overall picks. 

Most significant growth does appear between years 1 and 2 as starters; the exceptions are limited to very, very few (IIRC years 3 to 4 were the growth years - Brees & Smith). Allen may very well be one of these exceptions based on his time in Wyoming and a case could be made his big jump is actually this upcoming season. In any event, he definitely gets through the end of next season and we should have a very good idea who he is by then.

[jrober38]

Just now, Reed83HOF said:

Most significant growth does appear between years 1 and 2 as starters; the exceptions are limited to very, very few (IIRC years 3 to 4 were the growth years - Brees & Smith). Allen may very well be one of these exceptions based on his time in Wyoming and a case could be made his big jump is actually this upcoming season. In any event, he definitely gets through the end of next season and we should have a very good idea who he is by then.

 

I think we know who he is now. People don't want to hear it but that's how I feel.

 

Way more often than not that bonus year to tack those final nails into the coffin are just a waste of time that results in everyone getting fired and the QB getting cut or traded at the end of it.