JoshAllenHasBigHands Posted November 12, 2019 Posted November 12, 2019 1 minute ago, dave mcbride said: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001027521/article/seahawks-agree-to-trade-frank-clark-to-chiefs-for-draft-picks Clark had been tagged by the Seahawks. Oh it happens! I do not deny that. But it happens very rarely. Too rarely to just assume success as a given.
r00tabaga Posted November 12, 2019 Posted November 12, 2019 4 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: SO ABSOLUTELY NO Data to back up your opinion vs actual Data. Yeah I think I know I am right that he would have gotten at least a first. Hell Mikah Fitzpatrick gets a first. Like the newer avatar. +1 When you switching back tho? Lol-
dave mcbride Posted November 12, 2019 Posted November 12, 2019 Just now, MAJBobby said: So Wasnt Dee Ford Clowney Clowney was given up for a song. That was a terrible trade by Houston and a great one by Seattle. He's one of the most dominating players in the league and incredibly underrated because of the focus on raw sack numbers.
billsfan_34 Posted November 12, 2019 Posted November 12, 2019 2 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said: Do it. Put him at the Mike and move Edmunds to the Elephant role, let him rush the passer where he has a chance to be ELITE. You want to shake things up and tilt the field a bit? Time to make a move, McBeane. People may laugh coach but the sooner we get Edmunds to the outside the better. He is NOT A MLB!!! 1
MAJBobby Posted November 12, 2019 Posted November 12, 2019 Just now, JoshAllenHasBigHands said: Is that a serious comment? You have posted 16,000 times on this board. You obviously love the Bills and love football. There is no way you can spend that much time thinking about football and think that Fitzpatrick comment makes any sense. I'll make it simple: The overwhelming value of a trade is dictated by how many years the receiving team will have that player and at what cost. So, the Steelers received Minkah for 3 more years on a low-cost rookie deal. In the Gilmore Scenario, the receiving team gets Gilmore for 1 year at the most expensive price tag in the NFL. Do you see why the former is worth more (higher pick) than the latter? I refuse to believe you do not understand this concept, but that Fitzpatrick comment tells me you don't. And yet I just showed you an expiring contract at the same position with the same stats got a 1st and a 4th in 2013. So yeah I really do think you do not understand value. Or Ramsey once year left (lesser stats) gets 2 1sts and a 4th this year. If a team calls about Tre White would he bring a first?
Artem Lipatov Posted November 12, 2019 Posted November 12, 2019 (edited) He was very decent when playd in Buffalo. Why did he regress? Edited November 12, 2019 by Artem Lipatov
MAJBobby Posted November 12, 2019 Posted November 12, 2019 Just now, dave mcbride said: Clowney was given up for a song. That was a terrible trade by Houston and a great one by Seattle. He's one of the most dominating players in the league and incredibly underrated because of the focus on raw sack numbers. True they were offered more earlier but that is what you get when the HC is unqualified to make that decision. But the Tag and Trade just happened 3 times this year. guess it is no longer Rare
r00tabaga Posted November 12, 2019 Posted November 12, 2019 We should sign him so that Edmunds can move to OLB and Oliver to DE! LOL- I'll hang up and listen...
MAJBobby Posted November 12, 2019 Posted November 12, 2019 Just now, r00tabaga said: Like the newer avatar. +1 When you switching back tho? Lol- 3 weeks left have to have the Pats avatar for a month 1
oldmanfan Posted November 12, 2019 Posted November 12, 2019 18 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said: Well, you gotta get better if you want to do anything other than backing into the playoffs and losing a first round game ... sometimes that means taking chances. Yeah but that's not a chance. That's foolhardy.
MAJBobby Posted November 12, 2019 Posted November 12, 2019 Just now, r00tabaga said: We should sign him so that Edmunds can move to OLB and Oliver to DE! LOL- I'll hang up and listen... I just want him for Depth, and to help against the Run 1
Call_Of_Ktulu Posted November 12, 2019 Posted November 12, 2019 I think he fits more into a 3-4, he is solid in run support but bad in coverage. If we started running more 3-4 looks then he might have a little value.
MAJBobby Posted November 12, 2019 Posted November 12, 2019 Just now, Call_Of_Ktulu said: I think he fits more into a 3-4, he is solid in run support but bad in coverage. If we started running more 3-4 looks then he might have a little value. If Milano or Lorax go down I would feel a heck of alot better with Brown coming in over Stanford or Thompson
Brianmoorman4jesus Posted November 12, 2019 Posted November 12, 2019 He was probably my least favorite player on this team because of how slow he was.......but he might actually be of use on run downs
JoshAllenHasBigHands Posted November 12, 2019 Posted November 12, 2019 2 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: And yet I just showed you an expiring contract at the same position with the same stats got a 1st and a 4th in 2013. So yeah I really do think you do not understand value. Or Ramsey once year left (lesser stats) gets 2 1sts and a 4th this year. If a team calls about Tre White would he bring a first? Tre White is still here for two years! We don't have any reason to believe Tre White is going to hold out! The team calling for Tre White doesn't have reason to believe that if they are patient they can just sign the player and not give up any picks! Revis and Ramsey were all-pro players!! Teams didn't even throw their way. That is not even remotely true of Gilmore. I appreciate that you are pulling a bunch of data points, but none of them actually warrant your claim. It is not about stats, it is about league perception and market value. You have no idea how the league, as a whole, viewed Gilmore (we only have the pro-bowl and the Pats contract). That is why I keep bringing up Ramsey and Revis' all-pro status. It clearly defined how the league saw those guys. We also have no idea what Gilmore's market was. We do not know how many teams would have been interested in him, and who would have parted ways with pics as well. Its all speculation.
MAJBobby Posted November 12, 2019 Posted November 12, 2019 (edited) 1 minute ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said: Tre White is still here for two years! We don't have any reason to believe Tre White is going to hold out! The team calling for Tre White doesn't have reason to believe that if they are patient they can just sign the player and not give up any picks! Revis and Ramsey were all-pro players!! Teams didn't even throw their way. That is not even remotely true of Gilmore. I appreciate that you are pulling a bunch of data points, but none of them actually warrant your claim. It is not about stats, it is about league perception and market value. You have no idea how the league, as a whole, viewed Gilmore (we only have the pro-bowl and the Pats contract). That is why I keep bringing up Ramsey and Revis' all-pro status. It clearly defined how the league saw those guys. We also have no idea what Gilmore's market was. We do not know how many teams would have been interested in him, and who would have parted ways with pics as well. Its all speculation. Sure the BEST mind in the league handed him a 5 year 65M contract immediately. Not to mention a Team that rarely does that in UFA. I think that should show you the league perception of him. So unlike your argument, I have data to support the claim Gilmore would have gotten at least a 1st in a trade. Seeing you mention hold out, where is the Data that Gilmore was going to hold out? Edited November 12, 2019 by MAJBobby
The Frankish Reich Posted November 12, 2019 Posted November 12, 2019 9 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Yeah but that's not a chance. That's foolhardy. Prediction 1: Broncos game vs the legendary Brandon Allen at QB, Philip Lindsay and Royce Freeman will combine for 150+ yards rushing Prediction 2: Cowboys game, Ezekiel Elliot alone will rush for 130+ yards. Prediction 3: you will be clamoring for help — any kind of help! — to plug the hole in our run defense.
JoshAllenHasBigHands Posted November 12, 2019 Posted November 12, 2019 4 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: Sure the BEST mind in the league handed him a 5 year 65M contract immediately. Not to mention a Team that rarely does that in UFA. I think that should show you the league perception of him. So unlike your argument, I have data to support the claim Gilmore would have gotten at least a 1st in a trade. Seeing you mention hold out, where is the Data that Gilmore was going to hold out? Ok, man. You say so.
BADOLBILZ Posted November 12, 2019 Posted November 12, 2019 28 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: Pro Bowls are a joke. He was good for the Bills. Just ask Bill Belichick, who is at root a DB coach. I would bet a lot of money that he would have commanded a first. The guy you are arguing with is in that stage where he thinks he knows something but is getting continuously proven wrong by the results time and again. He's like C.Biscuit circa Jauron days. Letting Gilmore leave was dumb. Not even tagging him was dumber. It was a fear of keeping players who had leverage on the organization. That reflected a weakness in McDermott. It's hard to win if you are afraid to deal with some star talent that you didn't develop and personally bring into the organization. What Beane and McDermott did in cleaning house was the "organizational" equivalent of forcing your scheme on talent who didn't match it. They decided they had to fix everything, even the stuff that wasn't broke like Lynn's offense and a bunch of good young talent just hitting their prime. That's why they are in year 3 and lack playmakers on both sides of the ball. People hate the Jauron comparisons but not tagging Gilmore was right out of the Jauron/Levy playbook. Not only did they not get an extra pick at least they THEN traded back out of position to select Mahomes or Watson to GET an extra pick and replace Gilmore. Thankfully I was right about Tre White that he was the best CB in that draft(because Lattimore still can't stay healthy) otherwise imagine if they had selected a dud with that pick. 2
JoshAllenHasBigHands Posted November 12, 2019 Posted November 12, 2019 1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said: The guy you are arguing with is in that stage where he thinks he knows something but is getting continuously proven wrong by the results time and again. He's like C.Biscuit circa Jauron days. Letting Gilmore leave was dumb. Not even tagging him was dumber. It was a fear of keeping players who had leverage on the organization. That reflected a weakness in McDermott. It's hard to win if you are afraid to deal with some star talent that you didn't develop and personally bring into the organization. What Beane and McDermott did in cleaning house was the "organizational" equivalent of forcing your scheme on talent who didn't match it. They decided they had to fix everything, even the stuff that wasn't broke like Lynn's offense and a bunch of good young talent just hitting their prime. That's why they are in year 3 and lack playmakers on both sides of the ball. People hate the Jauron comparisons but not tagging Gilmore was right out of the Jauron/Levy playbook. Not only did they not get an extra pick at least they THEN traded back out of position to select Mahomes or Watson to GET an extra pick and replace Gilmore. Thankfully I was right about Tre White that he was the best CB in that draft(because Lattimore still can't stay healthy) otherwise imagine if they had selected a dud with that pick. Badol, you have been laughed at on this board more than ButchfromtheEastSide did on BBMB. You should walk away.
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