How is Sean McDermott like Dick Jauron?

[Phil The Thrill]

7 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

@SoTier, are you perchance well-acquainted with @BADOLBILZ?

 

I don't think points 1 and 2 are correct.  

-In what world is Going for it on 4th down 2x last week on offense called Jauronesque?  Do you actually remember?  You actually contradict yourself with point 4.  They're stupid because they didn't work, but they are aggressive calls Jauron would never make.

-McDermott is pretty clear that he wants his D to be an attacking D, they just don't quite have the hosses to pull that off while retaining sound run D.  So they fall back on stopping the bleeding. They're running their 2nd string 1-gap with Harrison IR'd, and they need an edge.

 

The "favors undersized defensive players", show your work, say who you mean?  Edmunds is a monster.  Jordan Phillips ain't nicknamed "tid-bit"

Likewise "favors character over significantly more talent", show your work, say who you mean?

 

On clock management and care about offense, fair cop and he needs to step up or he'll fail.

Well said.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

2 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said:

Well said.

certainly agree....NOT offering excuses (HATE 'EM), but it is interesting how many HC's (including their time coming through the coaching ranks) STILL bungle clock management despite YEARS of NFL experience.....how come?.......

 

"On clock management and care about offense, fair cop and he needs to step up or he'll fail. "

[Another Fan]

To me anyway it seems to some extent this thread was generated by somebody upset about a Bills loss.  I'm pretty sure if you polled most Bills fans McD would have a very favorable approval rating at the moment for his 2.5 years.  I'd give him at least a solid B so far.

 

I will say this however, he does strike me as a guy that there isn't a salary dump or trading for future picks kind of deal he doesn't love.  Maybe not this year but there's going to come  a point where squeezing into the playoffs as a #6 seed and having early exits aren't gonna fly.  

[Nick the Greek]

So against the browns we went for it 2 times on 4th down, if I recall. 
 

that includes passing up kicking a 50 plus yard field goal, and trying to get the first down. 
 

now if that isn’t aggressive, and trying to win, I don’t know what is. How does this get overlooked? 

[Nuncha]

4 hours ago, Chemical said:

 

Interesting how Mahomes, Jackson, and Watson will be figured out by defenses causing their stellar numbers to decline/plateau,  but Allen can only improve according to some ppl here. 

Those three have waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more talent around them. WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY more.

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

3 minutes ago, Azucho98 said:

Those three have waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more talent around them. WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY more.

 Yeah. That’s not my point though. 

 

Many fellow Bills fans will say those guys will either plateau or get worse while telling you Allen will only get better. 

[billsfan89]

McD isn't a tired retread who failed with the Bears. 

[17years&waiting]

Reminds me of the old Dick Jauron joke threads from the old BBMB.  Actually saved one of them:

 

I'll start it off... everyone else feel free to post em up and we will see if we can get to 101. I'll try to keep the list updated and before someone gets stupid here... 1.this is just for fun, and 2.) even if you like him hell have a lil offseason fun at his expense... he is a big boy he can take it.

 

8.) Dick Jauron could finish 7-9 with an 8-8 start

9.) Dick Jauron could finish 7-9 with the refs throwing every game FOR him

10.) Dick Jauron could finish 7-9 in a 32 game season

11.) Dick Jauron could finish 7-9 with the '72 Dolphins

12.) Dick Jauron could finish 7-9 with with the '85 Bears

13.) Dick Jauron could finish 7-9 with the 2007 Patriots

14.) Dick Jauron could finish 7-9 with with a 5-1 headstart on the season

15.) Dick Jauron could finish 7-9 in a 15 game season

16.) Dick Jauron could finish 7-9 in 18 holes of golf.

17.) Dick Jauron could finish 7-9 managing Burger King.

18.) Dick Jauron could finish 7-9 by only playing against 10 guys on offense and 10 guys on defense.

19.) Dick Jauron could finish 7-9 during a lockout.

20.) Dick Jauron could finish 7-9 playing madden on rookie level

21.) Dick Jauron could finish 7-9 with the other teams trying to throw every game

22.) Dick Jauron could finish 7-9 with divine intervention

23.) Dick Jauron could finish 7-9 on "The View".

24.) Dick Jauron could finish 7-9 even if the numbers "7" and "9" didn't exist.
 

 

[US Egg]

How is Sean McDermott like Dick Jauron?

By SoTier, 13 hours ago in The Stadium Wall

 

13 hours ago, SoTier said:

Let me count the ways ...

McDermott plays not to lose just like Jauron.  Conservative game calling and playing for a break to win on a late FG hasn't been a successful formula for winning in the NFL for a couple of decades at least.

McDermott wants a bend not break defense and an offense that plays it safe so it doesn't lose the game. 

McDermott's clock management, especially at the end of first halves and games, is mediocre at best and frequently inept as it was at the end of the game Sunday.

McDermott intersperses his usual conservative game plan with a series or two of stupidly aggressive calls.

McDermott favors players who fit his narrow view of "character" over players with significantly more talent who may march to a different drummer.  He doesn't seem to have much tolerance for differences.

McDermott favors undersized defensive players.

McDermott doesn't seem to understand or care about offense, underscored by his poor choice of offensive coaches and the lack of playmakers on the offense.

 

 

The ole question thread started and answered by the poster before others comment.

 

Guess I'm done here.

Edited November 13, 2019 by I am the egg man

[Reed83HOF]

6 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

certainly agree....NOT offering excuses (HATE 'EM), but it is interesting how many HC's (including their time coming through the coaching ranks) STILL bungle clock management despite YEARS of NFL experience.....how come?.......

 

"On clock management and care about offense, fair cop and he needs to step up or he'll fail. "

I can only think of 1 who does it really really well all of the time

[WideNine]

They both pee standing up?

[reddogblitz]

I posted this in another thread but think it definitely belongs here.

 

The ending of Sunday's game to me anyway was eerily similar to a Dick Jauron game I was at ironically against the Clowns. It was the Monday Night game in Brady Quinn's first start. The game Trent threw 3 picks in our first 4 possessions. We battled back to get the football back with less that 2:00 to go down by 2. A FG wins it and keeps our playoff hopes alive. Trent quickly got us down to the 35 where we camped out and then Lindell missed a long FG.  Sound familiar?

 

That was the night ? I officially jumped off the DJ bandwagon.

 

[NoHuddleKelly12]

12 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

McDermott is average to way below average in most aspects of being a HC.  

 

As I have said many times, the one thing I think he does very well is motivate the troops and get them to come out playing hard every week.

 

His in-game tactics, clock usage, and penalty challenges have been between below average and atrocious.

 

I think he would make a very fine Defensive Coordinator in this league.

 

In a word, as a HC, he is "replaceable."

 

 

Even the single point that you grudgingly give McD as a backhanded compliment is still significantly more than could ever be said for Jauron here, and that’s just as a baseline. With all due respect, McD has shown an aptitude for identifying issues during the week and setting about to at least try to solve them for in game situations thereafter, and continues to work to improve himself as well as those around him. That may not be happening as fast as some here would like, yourself included, but doesn’t change the fact that he is here to stay for the foreseeable future, and will continue to get better over the course of a long season—last year’s start versus finish should’ve given you plenty of evidence for that as it is. How he was able to squeeze 6 wins out of that collective rabble claiming to be starters in the NFL on offense remains a minor miracle—and this year with 9/11 of the starters being completely new pieces, I’ll withhold a final rendering for McD until we finish off the year, but so far at 6-3 he’s still captained us to the #1 WC spot. 

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

There is no slowing down in the NFL. The second you take your foot off the accelerator on offense or play prevent defense you lose.

 

Watching this safe play not to lose play style is making me sick. When you play this style of football you never blow a team out and you are always in close games. If he stays with this way of playing our 1st pick in the draft needs to be a kicker. 

[SoTier]

20 hours ago, 2003Contenders said:

First some reflections on Dick Jauron...

 

I will have to admit that I was one of Jauron's biggest defenders back in the day. He admittedly had his shortcomings ("It's just so hard to win in the NFL"), but given the terrible talent that he had at his disposal (especially on offense) during his tenure here, he did a decent job maximizing what he had at his disposal and -- dare I say -- overachieved. He was a very good coach for a BAD football team. That is, his highly conservative game plans helped to hide some of the dearth of talent that the teams had on offense in those days.

 

Let's not forget what a pariah Buffalo was considered back then with Ralph and Marv in charge. They had trouble attracting top coaching candidates, especially with Ralph's refusal at the time to pay top dollar. Donahoe had just been fired -- and he was a darling of the media, so friends of his like Chris Mortenson heavily criticized the Bills for letting him go. Mike Mularkey had just quit. So, frankly the team had to scrape the bottom of the barrel for either retreads or under-qualified assistants. Jauron was the former.

 

Buffalo was a pariah during this time by Ralph Wilson's actions.  After the 2000 season, Wilson fired Wade Phillips in circumstances that resulted in Phillips suing the Bills for the rest of his salary under his contract and winning.  In 2005, Wilson fired Tom Donahoe over reasons that remain unknown to the general public, and it seems that he blacklisted Donahoe who has never been hired except as a consultant by another NFL team despite the regular recycle of NFL execs with lesser resumes.  Moreover, Wilson and his new protege, Russ Brandon, in charge, they successfully forced Mike Mularkey to resign without having to fire him.

 

Marv Levy was never in charge of anything during his two years (2006-2007) as the Bills GM.  He was a figurehead, and that was plain in the 2006 TC when he seemed to wander around chatting and shaking hands but having nothing else to do.

 

[Royale with Cheese]

5 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Buffalo was a pariah during this time by Ralph Wilson's actions.  After the 2000 season, Wilson fired Wade Phillips in circumstances that resulted in Phillips suing the Bills for the rest of his salary under his contract and winning.  In 2005, Wilson fired Tom Donahoe over reasons that remain unknown to the general public, and it seems that he blacklisted Donahoe who has never been hired except as a consultant by another NFL team despite the regular recycle of NFL execs with lesser resumes.  Moreover, Wilson and his new protege, Russ Brandon, in charge, they successfully forced Mike Mularkey to resign without having to fire him.

 

Marv Levy was never in charge of anything during his two years (2006-2007) as the Bills GM.  He was a figurehead, and that was plain in the 2006 TC when he seemed to wander around chatting and shaking hands but having nothing else to do.

 

 

LOL...Marv was definitely in charge.  It's why we brought in Jauron and why we drafted Whitner.  The reason Mularkey resigned is because Marv was going to have too much say.  Mularkey didn't want that so he left.  

[SoTier]

22 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

One other thing they have in common that you didn't mention is limited talent. When you're lacking there, hard to play differently.  Its easier to build a defense first when you have limited resources i.e. money to spend as players top to bottom are overall cheaper.  Plus I think a tema with limitations would have an easier time to win a few games by a score of 13-7 or 17-13, than 38-34 or some other high scoring outcome.

 

Why did both have limited talent?  Part of it comes from personnel decisions made higher up the food chain than GM or HC.  The Bills just seemed to have a policy under Wilson that continued under Brandon that they didn't pay DBs, RBs or WRs.  That's almost certainly why Gilmore, Woods, and Goodwin are playing on other teams because they were allowed to walk in FA when McDermott was only a few weeks after being hired. 

 

I would argue, though, that they had limited talent because they were not only willing to shed talented players who didn't fit their ideas of how they wanted players to be, but they were, at best, mediocre at assessing talent so their drafts weren't very productive, especially in the first  and second round.  In his four drafts, Jauron hit big on Marshawn Lynch.  Donte Whitner was a good pick but he was probably drafted too high, and Bills fans never forgave him for that. Leodis McKelvin, taken in the top ten in 2008, was a bust for his draft position.  Eric Wood was a good pick in 2009 but the Bills got that late first round pick for future All Pro LT Jason Peters, so it was an overall loss for team's talent level.  The Bills own 2009 pick, #11, they wasted on an epic bust, Aaron Maybin. a tweener DE/LB who was too small and not agiile enough to be effective as the pass rusher he was drafted to be.  Paul Posluszny from the second round in 2007 and Jairus Byrd and Andy Levitre from 2009's second round were solid performers and were all players who left in FA and found success.  The second best player drafted in the Jauron era was Kyle Williams, a fifth rounder who developed into one of the best DTs in the league but it took him a while.  

 

The plain fact is that under Jauron, the Bills talent dropped significantly, so that the team that Buddy Nix and Chan Gailey inherited was so talent depleted, it was bareliy competitive even with NFL bottom feeders. Three years into the McDermott era, the Bills talent level isn't as good as it was before he was named HC.  The list of numerous ex-Bills who exited after McDermott was hired and are contributing to winning teams starts with All Pro Stephon Gilmore.  The list of outstanding players that McDermott drafted is very short: Tre White.  Milano is decent.    Allen and Edmunds are still question marks.  Phillips is on IR.  The top picks from the 2019 draft, Oliver and Ford, have been underwhelming.  Singletary looks promising.

 

Edited November 13, 2019 by SoTier

[SoTier]

16 hours ago, Another Fan said:

To me anyway it seems to some extent this thread was generated by somebody upset about a Bills loss.  I'm pretty sure if you polled most Bills fans McD would have a very favorable approval rating at the moment for his 2.5 years.  I'd give him at least a solid B so far.

 

I will say this however, he does strike me as a guy that there isn't a salary dump or trading for future picks kind of deal he doesn't love.  Maybe not this year but there's going to come  a point where squeezing into the playoffs as a #6 seed and having early exits aren't gonna fly.  

 

I have never been a McDermott fan, and that stems mostly from his similarities to Jauron.   That he's a better HC than Jauron -- which would be hard not to be -- doesn't mean that they don't share the same philosophy on how to run a football team.  Jauron's approach was a fail a decade ago, and I think that McDermott's approach is doomed in the current NFL.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

28 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Why did both have limited talent?  Part of it comes from personnel decisions made higher up the food chain than GM or HC.  The Bills just seemed to have a policy under Wilson that continued under Brandon that they didn't pay DBs, RBs or WRs.  That's almost certainly why Gilmore, Woods, and Goodwin are playing on other teams because they were allowed to walk in FA when McDermott was only a few weeks after being hired. 

 

I would argue, though, that they had limited talent because they were not only willing to shed talented players who didn't fit their ideas of how they wanted players to be, but they were, at best, mediocre at assessing talent so their drafts weren't very productive, especially in the first  and second round.  In his four drafts, Jauron hit big on Marshawn Lynch.  Donte Whitner was a good pick but he was probably drafted too high, and Bills fans never forgave him for that. Leodis McKelvin, taken in the top ten in 2008, was a bust for his draft position.  Eric Wood was a good pick in 2009 but the Bills got that late first round pick for future All Pro LT Jason Peters, so it was an overall loss for team's talent level.  The Bills own 2009 pick, #11, they wasted on an epic bust, Aaron Maybin. a tweener DE/LB who was too small and not agiile enough to be effective as the pass rusher he was drafted to be.  Paul Posluszny from the second round in 2007 and Jairus Byrd and Andy Levitre from 2009's second round were solid performers and were all players who left in FA and found success.  The second best player drafted in the Jauron era was Kyle Williams, a fifth rounder who developed into one of the best DTs in the league but it took him a while.  

 

The plain fact is that under Jauron, the Bills talent dropped significantly, so that the team that Buddy Nix and Chan Gailey inherited was so talent depleted, it was bareliy competitive even with NFL bottom feeders. Three years into the McDermott era, the Bills talent level isn't as good as it was before he was named HC.  The list of numerous ex-Bills who exited after McDermott was hired and are contributing to winning teams starts with All Pro Stephon Gilmore.  The list of outstanding players that McDermott drafted is very short: Tre White.  Milano is decent.    Allen and Edmunds are still question marks.  Phillips is on IR.  The top picks from the 2019 draft, Oliver and Ford, have been underwhelming.  Singletary looks promising.

 

 

So if the team had more better talent before McD arrived how come their record wasn't better?

 

Agree that your list of outstanding players starts with Gilmore, but it also ends there too.  Darius, Sammy, Woods wouldn't call them anything special.

[Happy]

10 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

I have never been a McDermott fan, and that stems mostly from his similarities to Jauron.   That he's a better HC than Jauron -- which would be hard not to be -- doesn't mean that they don't share the same philosophy on how to run a football team.  Jauron's approach was a fail a decade ago, and I think that McDermott's approach is doomed in the current NFL.

 

Yeah, it's pretty amazing that for being a younger, newer coach, McD acts like he came out of the 1980s with his style and philosophy.  One would think he would at least be able to look at the top three coaches (Carroll, Harbaugh, Belichick), notice their impressive tenure as coaches, and try to mimic their success.  It almost seems like McD looked at Jauron and said "yep, this guy had it right."  I don't think McD was ready to be a HC back in 2017 and I don't think he's ready now.