NFC Slug-Fest: Hawks @ 9ers

[Tesla03]

you have to wonder what happens if we got Shanahan instead of Mcdermott 

 

but once again we went the route of the conservative defensive minded HC. 

[CaptnCoke11]

SF.. now there’s a good defense.  Our DL could only dream of getting pressure like that.  

[SCBills]

2 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

Talking about the importance of FORCED TO's...................................One got the Seahawk's a TD and one by the 49's took a Seahawks TD off the board. 

 

The more I think about it the more the lack of forced TO's by our D is a problem for the Bills that is going under the radar.  And of course the morons that cover the Bills in Western NY don't seem to notice while they focus on Allen's fumbles.

 

 

It’s a bit frustrating that they only focus on points as a measure.  
 

Our defense never forces turnovers and is ok giving up a few first downs which leads to negating Roberts and starting our offense inside our own 30 all the time. 
 

 

Edited November 12, 2019 by SCBills

[Sherlock Holmes]

5 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Is that a baguette?

A very stale, burnt, rock solid "baguette", yes... It is AKA "The Pickle Loaf"

[EmotionallyUnstable]

12 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Two observations of tonight's game as it relates to the Bills:

 

1)  QB's fumble.  It happens.  The more a QB is sacked or runs with the football the more they fumble.  Why some folks on this board obsess over Allen's fumbles while ignoring all the other fumbles is beyond me.  From the Giants rookie QB who has had 2 of his fumbles returned for TD's to Carolina's Kyle Allen who has lost 5 fumbles to Jimmy G tonight who just fumbled the 49's momentum away.

 

2)  I think we have a good defense but I also think they do some things very poorly.  One is getting the opposing O off the field and the other is that they don't force TO's.  But all I've read today from the Western NY sports media is how bad the Bills O is and it's "unfair" to expect the D to carry us.  And I respond why the hell can't we expect the D to carry us?  That's the Bills strength.  Tonight the Seahawk's D forces a TO and makes it a game.  When you have a struggling O the best way a D can help is force a lot of 3 & outs and TO's.  Our D doesn't do either.  How many defensive TD's have been scored this year?  And we have only ONE forced TO in the opponents red zone.  I bet that's worst in the league. 

 

 

regarding point number 2, it’s okay to count on your defense carrying you if you can resemble some sort of competence on offense. The Hawks average nearly 28 points per game and have one of the most clutch QBs of the decade. 

[Sherlock Holmes]

5 minutes ago, CaptnCoke11 said:

SF.. now there’s a good defense.  Our DL could only dream of getting pressure like that.  

TJ Watt would've solved that

[CincyBillsFan]

3 minutes ago, SirAndrew said:

I get your second point, but you need an offense to be a contender these days. The 85 Bears wouldn’t cut it in today’s NFL without a decent offense. Our defensive weak spot has been forcing turnovers and creating big plays, so to that point I agree. However, even San Francisco scored 10 points before the Seattle D put points on the board. 10 points against us is almost too much for our D to give up. Imo, that’s why our offense has been all the talk. 

 

I don't disagree.  

 

But if we are to compete THIS YEAR the D has to carry us.  Beating on an offense that has 9 new starters and not a single game breaker among the skill position players is missing the target.  Now next year Allen has to have improved and we have to have improved the quality of the O-line and the explosiveness of the skill players. 

 

Last year we had the 30th rated offense.  This year if we can get it to #22 we'll have made a big improvement but at #22 it will still be below average. 

 

That's what bugs me about the WNY media stories this morning.  They're trashing the O but seem to ignore the very real issues with the D.  Let's not forget that over the last two years, 2 out of our 3 first round draft picks have been defensive guys. 

[SirAndrew]

8 minutes ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

regarding point number 2, it’s okay to count on your defense carrying you if you can resemble some sort of competence on offense. The Hawks average nearly 28 points per game and have one of the most clutch QBs of the decade. 

Exactly, we have the number three ranked scoring and yards allowed defense. Sure, I’d like our D to make more big plays, but that’s nit picking imo. Scoring plays and the like on defense are often a result of random circumstance. Holding the opponent to less than 20 points a game is all you could ask from a defense. 

Edited November 12, 2019 by SirAndrew

[CincyBillsFan]

5 minutes ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

regarding point number 2, it’s okay to count on your defense carrying you if you can resemble some sort of competence on offense. The Hawks average nearly 28 points per game and have one of the most clutch QBs of the decade. 

 

I guess my point is that we can't really rely on the D because while it's good it's not top 10 if you look at all the factors that makes a D great.  Pair that with an O that's still a work in progress and a record of 6 - 3 is actually pretty amazing - no matter who we've played!

 

 

 

 

[loveorhatembillsfan4life]

20 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Two observations of tonight's game as it relates to the Bills:

 

1)  QB's fumble.  It happens.  The more a QB is sacked or runs with the football the more they fumble.  Why some folks on this board obsess over Allen's fumbles while ignoring all the other fumbles is beyond me.  From the Giants rookie QB who has had 2 of his fumbles returned for TD's to Carolina's Kyle Allen who has lost 5 fumbles to Jimmy G tonight who just fumbled the 49's momentum away.

 

2)  I think we have a good defense but I also think they do some things very poorly.  One is getting the opposing O off the field and the other is that they don't force TO's.  But all I've read today from the Western NY sports media is how bad the Bills O is and it's "unfair" to expect the D to carry us.  And I respond why the hell can't we expect the D to carry us?  That's the Bills strength.  Tonight the Seahawk's D forces a TO and makes it a game.  When you have a struggling O the best way a D can help is force a lot of 3 & outs and TO's.  Our D doesn't do either.  How many defensive TD's have been scored this year?  And we have only ONE forced TO in the opponents red zone.  I bet that's worst in the league. 

 

 

I agree. This is why everyone was talking up the pats d as elite this year before they ran into Baltimore. I think they are holding teams to an avg of 11 pts per game and have 27 turnovers, multiple returned for tds.  

We just don’t force enough game changing plays.

 

We play solid bend but don’t break pressure based d, but if our blitzes and line don’t get to the qb we are exposed everywhere where white isn’t...and screen plays. 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 12, 2019 by loveorhatembillsfan4life

[SCBills]

3 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

I don't disagree.  

 

But if we are to compete THIS YEAR the D has to carry us.  Beating on an offense that has 9 new starters and not a single game breaker among the skill position players is missing the target.  Now next year Allen has to have improved and we have to have improved the quality of the O-line and the explosiveness of the skill players. 

 

Last year we had the 30th rated offense.  This year if we can get it to #22 we'll have made a big improvement but at #22 it will still be below average. 

 

That's what bugs me about the WNY media stories this morning.  They're trashing the O but seem to ignore the very real issues with the D.  Let's not forget that over the last two years, 2 out of our 3 first round draft picks have been defensive guys. 

It’s somewhat similar to KC fans trashing their defense..   well, no ****, y’all have all your current investments locked into your absurd offense that is 10 deep with playmakers. 

[OZBILLS]

2 minutes ago, SirAndrew said:

 Holding the opponent to less than 20 points a game is all you could ask out from a defense. 

 

And it's getting hard when the defense is out there for 12 of 15 minutes each quarter.

 

Those quick 3 and outs are brutal

[SirAndrew]

1 minute ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

I don't disagree.  

 

But if we are to compete THIS YEAR the D has to carry us.  Beating on an offense that has 9 new starters and not a single game breaker among the skill position players is missing the target.  Now next year Allen has to have improved and we have to have improved the quality of the O-line and the explosiveness of the skill players. 

 

Last year we had the 30th rated offense.  This year if we can get it to #22 we'll have made a big improvement but at #22 it will still be below average. 

 

That's what bugs me about the WNY media stories this morning.  They're trashing the O but seem to ignore the very real issues with the D.  Let's not forget that over the last two years, 2 out of our 3 first round draft picks have been defensive guys. 

I get your point for sure,  I’m just saying we’re still the third ranked defense in the NFL. How much more can you ask ? I’d love more big plays, and to see them demonstrate the ability to be clutch. Our defense certainly didn’t perform in the clutch yesterday, but it would take a few more bad games before I begin to see them as an issue. 

Just now, OZBILLS said:

 

And it's getting hard when the defense is out there for 12 of 15 minutes each quarter.

 

Those quick 3 and outs are brutal

Great point. Our offense constantly puts those guys in bad spots. 

[CincyBillsFan]

3 minutes ago, SirAndrew said:

Exactly, we have the number three ranked scoring and yards allowed defense. Sure, I’d like our D to make more big plays, but that’s nit picking imo. Scoring plays and the like on defense are often a result of random circumstance. Holding the opponent to less than 20 points a game is all you could ask out from a defense. 

 

I disagree. 

 

Sure points & yards allowed are important metrics but some D coordinators view takeaways as the most important measure of a D's effectiveness.  Field position is also an important metric and our D has allowed teams to get out of trouble to often.  We have a good but not a great D and combined with a below average offense and 6 - 3 is a very good record.

 

 

 

 

[OZBILLS]

1 minute ago, SirAndrew said:

Great point. Our offense constantly puts those guys in bad spots. 

 

I think it makes a big difference. What incentive do the D have when they are making stops and huge plays whilst the Offense is meek and toothless?

 

It adds up and is really killing us from a selfish pov

[Doc Brown]

17 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Two observations of tonight's game as it relates to the Bills:

 

1)  QB's fumble.  It happens.  The more a QB is sacked or runs with the football the more they fumble.  Why some folks on this board obsess over Allen's fumbles while ignoring all the other fumbles is beyond me.  From the Giants rookie QB who has had 2 of his fumbles returned for TD's to Carolina's Kyle Allen who has lost 5 fumbles to Jimmy G tonight who just fumbled the 49's momentum away.

 

2)  I think we have a good defense but I also think they do some things very poorly.  One is getting the opposing O off the field and the other is that they don't force TO's.  But all I've read today from the Western NY sports media is how bad the Bills O is and it's "unfair" to expect the D to carry us.  And I respond why the hell can't we expect the D to carry us?  That's the Bills strength.  Tonight the Seahawk's D forces a TO and makes it a game.  When you have a struggling O the best way a D can help is force a lot of 3 & outs and TO's.  Our D doesn't do either.  How many defensive TD's have been scored this year?  And we have only ONE forced TO in the opponents red zone.  I bet that's worst in the league. 

 

 

Which is puzzling because we were 8th in takeaways last year with a nearly identical roster.  We're 20th right now which makes me think we revert to the mean and create more the remaining seven games.

[Big Turk]

You want to see an elite defense? Watch the 49ers...

[CincyBillsFan]

4 minutes ago, OZBILLS said:

 

And it's getting hard when the defense is out there for 12 of 15 minutes each quarter.

 

Those quick 3 and outs are brutal

 

Whose fault is that?  Our O actually does move the ball on most possessions for at least a couple of 1st downs.  We tend to stall out around midfield.  In contrast our D has given up a lot of 3rd & long recently. 

 

 

[SirAndrew]

Just now, CincyBillsFan said:

 

I disagree. 

 

Sure points & yards allowed are important metrics but some D coordinators view takeaways as the most important measure of a D's effectiveness.  Field position is also an important metric and our D has allowed teams to get out of trouble to often.  We have a good but not a great D and combined with a below average offense and 6 - 3 is a very good record.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, it’s probably just a matter of philosophy. Personally,  I think when you hold an opponent under 20 points, you should win football games. It’s up to the offense to figure out how to score 20. Anything else is their failure, and they need to own it imo. Takeaways come and go, even for the best defensive teams. They cannot be counted on for a team to score points. That’s the job of the offense, and our defense is still good. We’re not the 2000 Ravens or 85 Bears, but a competent offense would make us a Super Bowl contender. 

[Happy]

It is refreshing to watch two teams that play physical, take away defense