whatdrought Posted November 11, 2019 Posted November 11, 2019 2 hours ago, RichRiderBills said: Heres the kicker; that would have been a rushing play if completed. Counted as rush yards....why then is that a pass? Horsehockey ...there was no motion forward in the manner of a conventional pass. Should be a fumble! No, it would be a passing play. The rule was correctly inforced yesterday. It’s a dumb rule, but it was called correctly.
row_33 Posted November 11, 2019 Posted November 11, 2019 would be nice if one of these went the Bills' way but that would require some coaching and innovation... sigh....
RichRiderBills Posted November 11, 2019 Posted November 11, 2019 17 minutes ago, whatdrought said: No, it would be a passing play. The rule was correctly inforced yesterday. It’s a dumb rule, but it was called correctly. Nope. Ok so the same plays we run with Mckenzie are all listed as rushing plays and count as rushing stats? I've never seen them listed as a pass. They always show as rushes. Always dude, we run it! Shovel pass? Yes...not these toss up plays. It was an especially weak motion as well, and there was a marginal to non existent throwing motion on the toss.
SNICE Posted November 12, 2019 Posted November 12, 2019 I got passed this quickly, however did not like the reasoning “quaterback’s arm was moving forward....” the definition of a forward pass has nothing to do with an arm, it’s about the BALL. I would’ve liked more emphasis and camera views of whether or not the BALL was moving forward. maybe I’m reaching but it seemed the ball was going straight down. 2
LSHMEAB Posted November 12, 2019 Posted November 12, 2019 3 hours ago, RichRiderBills said: Nope. Ok so the same plays we run with Mckenzie are all listed as rushing plays and count as rushing stats? I've never seen them listed as a pass. They always show as rushes. Always dude, we run it! Shovel pass? Yes...not these toss up plays. It was an especially weak motion as well, and there was a marginal to non existent throwing motion on the toss. No my good man. They go into the stat books as passing yards. It was the correct call. Sucks for us, but the refs called it correctly. 2
Freddie's Dead Posted November 12, 2019 Posted November 12, 2019 Official decision tree from NFL referee casebook manual: if team = 'Bills' then play = 'Fumble' else play = 'Incomplete Forward Pass' 1
billsbackto81 Posted November 12, 2019 Posted November 12, 2019 I found the video very depressing in the fact Allen couldn't accurately pass the ball to a player literally 6 inches in front of him.
Rochesterfan Posted November 12, 2019 Posted November 12, 2019 11 hours ago, RichRiderBills said: Nope. Ok so the same plays we run with Mckenzie are all listed as rushing plays and count as rushing stats? I've never seen them listed as a pass. They always show as rushes. Always dude, we run it! Shovel pass? Yes...not these toss up plays. It was an especially weak motion as well, and there was a marginal to non existent throwing motion on the toss. No they don’t. They are always passes if it tosses it like that. The runs are the quick handoffs. This play is a forward pass and that is the exact reason they do it. 1 1
njbuff Posted November 12, 2019 Posted November 12, 2019 If this with Allen and McKenzie against NE, you know the call of a fumble on the field would have stood. 1
BarleyNY Posted November 12, 2019 Posted November 12, 2019 15 hours ago, RichRiderBills said: Heres the kicker; that would have been a rushing play if completed. Counted as rush yards....why then is that a pass? Horsehockey ...there was no motion forward in the manner of a conventional pass. Should be a fumble! The refs - and league - blew the call in the Vikings game. There is no reason for that. But I noticed that the shovel pass in the Washington game where Singletary went for 49 yards was counted as a completed pass and went toward passing yards.
Cripple Creek Posted November 12, 2019 Posted November 12, 2019 3 hours ago, billsbackto81 said: I found the video very depressing in the fact Allen couldn't accurately pass the ball to a player literally 6 inches in front of him. Kind of like the Browns, eh? Everything here depends on timing. I wonder if that play was the first time Allen had run it in a game. The WR was on him too quickly, but carry on with accuracy issues.
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted November 12, 2019 Posted November 12, 2019 12 hours ago, RichRiderBills said: Nope. Ok so the same plays we run with Mckenzie are all listed as rushing plays and count as rushing stats? I've never seen them listed as a pass. They always show as rushes. Always dude, we run it! Shovel pass? Yes...not these toss up plays. It was an especially weak motion as well, and there was a marginal to non existent throwing motion on the toss. Go back and look at the stats in those games, they are credited as passes. I know because I looked closely as one of those affected my fantasy results.
billsbackto81 Posted November 12, 2019 Posted November 12, 2019 17 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said: Kind of like the Browns, eh? Everything here depends on timing. I wonder if that play was the first time Allen had run it in a game. The WR was on him too quickly, but carry on with accuracy issues. EZ bud, meant to be a funny. I like Josh a lot and hope more than anyone he succeeds. But let's not turn a blind eye to the obvious, at this juncture in his career he's not exactly pinpoint.
Jobot Posted November 12, 2019 Posted November 12, 2019 Thanks for posting this. I was pulling my hair out arguing about this on another thread. It's extremely frustrating that the refs don't understand the rules as well as people watching at home. It's really simple, either the ball is moving forward or it is not. Allen's example vs the Vikings should have been ruled an incomplete pass. Baker's ball didn't go forward (at least not convincingly from replay) and should have stayed a fumble. Ironically, it was probably during off-season review that the Refs were shown the incorrect outcome of Allen's example that this past weekends crew assumed was identical. Bottom line, most of the refs are just not smart enough for this game.
Orlando Buffalo Posted November 12, 2019 Posted November 12, 2019 6 minutes ago, Jobot said: Thanks for posting this. I was pulling my hair out arguing about this on another thread. It's extremely frustrating that the refs don't understand the rules as well as people watching at home. It's really simple, either the ball is moving forward or it is not. Allen's example vs the Vikings should have been ruled an incomplete pass. Baker's ball didn't go forward (at least not convincingly from replay) and should have stayed a fumble. Ironically, it was probably during off-season review that the Refs were shown the incorrect outcome of Allen's example that this past weekends crew assumed was identical. Bottom line, most of the refs are just not smart enough for this game. The problem is that there is no accountability for errors or explanation of the change. I truly accept it is an incomplete pass if it went forward an inch but then how did they mess up last year on review? The inconsistent nature is why I do not watch other games because I believe 2or 3 games a weekend are decided by poor officiating.
Jobot Posted November 12, 2019 Posted November 12, 2019 36 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said: The problem is that there is no accountability for errors or explanation of the change. I truly accept it is an incomplete pass if it went forward an inch but then how did they mess up last year on review? The inconsistent nature is why I do not watch other games because I believe 2or 3 games a weekend are decided by poor officiating. I have no clue why ALL replays don't go back to 'New York'. It's so apparent that refs can't handle the added workload in addition to the field work.
Do The Reich Thing Posted November 12, 2019 Posted November 12, 2019 I've re-watched this play 50+ times... The bigger thing that concerns me is that he was attempting to underhand it to Hunt. If it's underhand shouldn't it be a fumble?
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted November 12, 2019 Posted November 12, 2019 I was talking with someone at work today. Did anyone as a kid playing two hand touch ever use the rule "He cut the string"? If a guy ran between the QB and the center and the ball for any reason hit the ground, it's a live ball. That would take all the debate out of this!
row_33 Posted November 12, 2019 Posted November 12, 2019 5 hours ago, njbuff said: If this with Allen and McKenzie against NE, you know the call of a fumble on the field would have stood. Bills aren't advanced enough on O to design a play like that
Guffalo Posted November 12, 2019 Posted November 12, 2019 (edited) My question is, if Mayfield or the reciever picked it up and ran a few yards, would they still have treated it as a forward pass? If it got kicked back a bit and they lost 12 yards, would they call it an incomplete pass? Probably not because Baker Mayfield is the new posterchild for the NFL , the refs need to keep him engaged in the game, thus the call went that way. Edited November 12, 2019 by Guffalo
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