Daboll as an OC - Rankings for last 10 years

[WhoTom]

I like Daboll as a play designer, but not so much as a play caller. I've seen the Bills offense capitalize on great misdirection plays, screen passes, and the occasional razzle-dazzle, but he doesn't seem to call them at the right times consistently. He might be a better fit on a team with an offensive-minded HC who can help him with the play calling, much like McD helped (or still helps?) Frazier with the defensive play calling.

 

 

[2003Contenders]

I get the sense that Daboll does a pretty good job as a coach on Mondays through Saturdays. The problem is with his play-calling on Sundays. He has trouble calling plays that help Josh get into a rhythm. That was a strength of Chan Gailey's back when he effectively managed to (mostly) call the proper plays for Fitz.

 

Of course, maybe the designed plays have multiple options and it is Josh Allen who is refusing to make the choice with the highest likelihood of success. Regardless, a more-than-2-to-1 pass-to-run ratio against the 3rd worst run defense in the NFL is on Daboll.

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

17 minutes ago, Jerome007 said:

Is there more than 7-8 teams in the whole NFL, if that, with "well established, experienced HC and OC"?

 

Of course every team wants that. An en elite QB. Top offensive line. #1 WRs. Terrifying defenses. And on and on. Some fans think their desires can simply put into reality in a snap.

one snap?

 

 

how long have you been around?

 

one snap, lmao

[dave mcbride]

55 minutes ago, Virgil said:

 

These are his career stats as an NFL OC.  The overall is based upon the entire team, which includes defensive points scored.  Out of all the categories, he only finished a season top ten on four occasions, all within the rushing category.   Allen's ability to run is the main reason he's green or yellow these past two seasons. 

 

For those saying Allen is the problem, which he does have his problems, I look at the person running the show and see that the man's resume is crap.  I don't know how he got the job then or how he has the job now.  His ties to Saban and the Hoodie mean nothing to me.  With the Hoodie, all he did was coach TE's.  College stats are tough to rank, but he was

If you're going to make an assessment of him, you really have to list who his quarterbacks were. This is a QB league, and the best OC can't do a goddamn thing if the QB is bad. Prior to coming to Buffalo, his best QB was a tossup between Colt McCoy and Matt Moore. 

Edited November 11, 2019 by dave mcbride

[dpberr]

23 hours ago, Rbleyle said:

The Ravens have created an offense that’s conceptually based around the QBs skill set.  The Ravens have no standout players on offense.  The Bills have created an offense that’s conceptually based around the OCs ideology.

 

Which philosophy has worked best?  

  

That's the fundamental issue.  Right there.  

 

The Ravens have put Lamar Jackson in a position to succeed.  

Edited November 12, 2019 by dpberr

[Virgil]

Just now, dave mcbride said:

If you're going to make an assessment of him, you really have to list who his quarterbacks were. This is a QB league, and the best OC can't do a goddamn thing if the QB is bad.

 

I get where you're coming from, but he was also only given 1-2 years at each role for a reason.  If the QB's were bad, but his system was good, he would have earned more time.  Unless every owner decided together to simply make him a scapegoat.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

17 minutes ago, WhoTom said:

I like Daboll as a play designer, but not so much as a play caller. I've seen the Bills offense capitalize on great misdirection plays, screen passes, and the occasional razzle-dazzle, but he doesn't seem to call them at the right times consistently. He might be a better fit on a team with an offensive-minded HC who can help him with the play calling, much like McD helped (or still helps?) Frazier with the defensive play calling.

 

 

Called a screen perfectly on the final drive that Allen failed to get over the defense. That's Allen's only job on that play, don't get the ball knocked down.

[whatdrought]

I know there’s a hundred Daboll threads, not sure if this is the right one for this-

 

but does anyone wonder if Daboll might be really really good as an OC if only he could keep himself grounded? When you look at the raw film there are some incredible concepts and plays being put on tape, but situationally and rythmatically there seems to be a complete inability to function. He’s got amazing short passing route combos that he reserves for 1st and 2nd down. He’s got some good middle/deep passing combos as well which seem to be on his “only use on 3rd and short” list. 

 

It’s frustrating because I feel like at times the plays and execution are all there, and then we do something completely unnecessary. 

[dave mcbride]

Just now, Virgil said:

 

I get where you're coming from, but he was also only given 1-2 years at each role for a reason.  If the QB's were bad, but his system was good, he would have earned more time.  Unless every owner decided together to simply make him a scapegoat.

He didn't get fired; the whole staff did in all of his prior stints. It starts at the top when it comes to firings. In Cleveland, Mangini was fired and replaced by Pat Shurmur (an OC). In Miami, the season started out with Tony Sparano, who was fired and replaced with an interim, Todd Bowles. The next season, Miami hired an OC (Philbin). In KC, the coach, Romeo Crennell, was fired after the season and replaced by Andy Reid, an offensive coach. 

[Phil The Thrill]

49 minutes ago, Virgil said:

 

These are his career stats as an NFL OC.  The overall is based upon the entire team, which includes defensive points scored.  Out of all the categories, he only finished a season top ten on four occasions, all within the rushing category.   Allen's ability to run is the main reason he's green or yellow these past two seasons. 

 

For those saying Allen is the problem, which he does have his problems, I look at the person running the show and see that the man's resume is crap.  I don't know how he got the job then or how he has the job now.  His ties to Saban and the Hoodie mean nothing to me.  With the Hoodie, all he did was coach TE's.  College stats are tough to rank, but he was

This is a great way to cherry pick stats to spin a narrative that Daboll is the problem and not his QB - who by the way is ranked toward the bottom of league for starting QB’s.  
 

You are looking at numbers that are out of context to show that Daboll sucks as an OC.   While the overall rankings from Daboll are below average, much of this has to do with a passing game which has struggled.  But guess what else is below average?  The QB’s running that passing game.  He has almost always inherited a bad football team with a less than average QB.  The QB’s that he’s had to work with:

 

Bruce Gradowski

Derek Anderson 

Matt Moore

Kyle Orton

Josh Allen 
 

And look - if we’re talking numbers here, then Josh Allen is a below average in 2019.  
 

Do you honestly think that another OC would get anything more out of teams led by these QB’s?  
 

So if you have a QB that hasn’t shown the ability to be average, how can your passing offense be any better than....below average?

 

When you look at his team’s rushing performance, I see offenses that usually finishes within the top 10 rushing offense.  
 

That tells me that Daboll isn’t completely ineffective as a playcaller.  He just has never had anything better than average at QB.  Currently he has below average.  
 

This post by @Virgil is again, more scapegoating on Daboll, without holding any accountability on the QB.  

[Happy]

1 minute ago, whatdrought said:

I know there’s a hundred Daboll threads, not sure if this is the right one for this-

 

but does anyone wonder if Daboll might be really really good as an OC if only he could keep himself grounded? When you look at the raw film there are some incredible concepts and plays being put on tape, but situationally and rythmatically there seems to be a complete inability to function. He’s got amazing short passing route combos that he reserves for 1st and 2nd down. He’s got some good middle/deep passing combos as well which seem to be on his “only use on 3rd and short” list. 

 

It’s frustrating because I feel like at times the plays and execution are all there, and then we do something completely unnecessary. 

 

Yes.  If that is the case, it is not saying anything good about McDermott as a HC and his ability to grasp an offense and what he wants it to do.  Daboll is being left to his own devices and can't handle it.  Roman couldn't handle it either under Rex, but he is flourishing under John Harbaugh.  Roman and Daboll could be comparable as Buffalo OC, performance wise.

[whatdrought]

3 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

I know there’s a hundred Daboll threads, not sure if this is the right one for this-

 

but does anyone wonder if Daboll might be really really good as an OC if only he could keep himself grounded? When you look at the raw film there are some incredible concepts and plays being put on tape, but situationally and rythmatically there seems to be a complete inability to function. He’s got amazing short passing route combos that he reserves for 1st and 2nd down. He’s got some good middle/deep passing combos as well which seem to be on his “only use on 3rd and short” list. 

 

It’s frustrating because I feel like at times the plays and execution are all there, and then we do something completely unnecessary. 

 

For what it’s worth- the only reason i’d be fine with him being back next year is that he does create some great plays... that being said, he needs to show improvement on the situational play calling or else I’m not gonna want him around next year.

[C.Biscuit97]

Just now, Phil The Thrill said:

This is a great way to cherry pick stats to spin a narrative that Daboll is the problem and not his QB - who by the way is ranked toward the bottom of league for starting QB’s.  
 

You are looking at numbers that are out of context to show that Daboll sucks as an OC.   While the overall rankings from Daboll are below average, much of this has to do with a passing game which has struggled.  But guess what else is below average?  The QB’s running that passing game.  He has almost always inherited a bad football team with a less than average QB.  The QB’s that he’s had to work with:

 

Bruce Gradowski

Derek Anderson 

Matt Moore

Kyle Orton

Josh Allen 
 

And look - if we’re talking numbers here, then Josh Allen is a below average in 2019.  
 

Do you honestly think that another OC would get anything more out of teams led by these QB’s?  
 

So if you have a QB that hasn’t shown the ability to be average, how can your passing offense be any better than....below average?

 

When you look at his team’s rushing performance, I see offenses that usually finishes within the top 10 rushing offense.  
 

That tells me that Daboll isn’t completely ineffective as a playcaller.  He just has never had anything better than average at QB.  Currently he has below average.  
 

This post by @Virgil is again, more scapegoating on Daboll, without holding any accountability on the QB.  

1) why are only bad teams hiring him then to be an O.C.?

 

2) those qbs aren’t great but they had better seasons with other OCs than Daboll. Anderson was a pro bowler one year. 
 

3) I do think we overrate coaching.  I don’t doubt Daboll would be better with a more established vet qb.  But that’s not what we have here. I never liked the hiring because it felt like such an uninspiring pick.  I wanted Kliff Kingsburg. 

[Phil The Thrill]

48 minutes ago, Virgil said:

 

 

But that lack of awareness is al Daboll’s fault.  It can’t possibly be on the QB

[Dablitzkrieg]

I hate him as the OC...so much today

[Z-Mann]

And as others have said, a great coach/coordinator can mold their system around the strengths of their players.  I do not know either way the degree to which Daboll is doing this...

[Phil The Thrill]

1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

1) why are only bad teams hiring him then to be an O.C.?

 

2) those qbs aren’t great but they had better seasons with other OCs than Daboll. Anderson was a pro bowler one year. 
 

3) I do think we overrate coaching.  I don’t doubt Daboll would be better with a more established vet qb.  But that’s not what we have here. I never liked the hiring because it felt like such an uninspiring pick.  I wanted Kliff Kingsburg. 

Flawed logic - Anderson was a Pro Bowl QB for 1 year and has struggled as a starter for years after Daboll was fired.  Seems to me that’s on outlier.

 

Why do bad teams hire Daboll?  Probably because he knows offense and has proven to know how to design an effective running game despite poor QB performance.  
 

If he’s so bad, why would one of the greatest college coaches ever hire him?  After all, it’s not like his offense ever won a national championship 

[WhoTom]

17 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Called a screen perfectly on the final drive that Allen failed to get over the defense. That's Allen's only job on that play, don't get the ball knocked down.

 

That's one data point. How about relegating Singletary to a bit part in a game plan against one of the worst run defenses in the league? If Allen is as bad as you say he is, then wouldn't a good OC try to run the ball more, especially against a team that struggles against the run?

 

 

Edited November 11, 2019 by WhoTom

[C.Biscuit97]

1 minute ago, Phil The Thrill said:

Flawed logic - Anderson was a Pro Bowl QB for 1 year and has struggled as a starter for years after Daboll was fired.  Seems to me that’s on outlier.

 

Why do bad teams hire Daboll?  Probably because he knows offense and has proven to know how to design an effective running game despite poor QB performance.  
 

If he’s so bad, why would one of the greatest college coaches ever hire him?  After all, it’s not like his offense ever won a national championship 

As I pointed earlier in the thread, Jalen Hurts is a much better player without Daboll.  
 

and you don’t understand how the coaching world works by now? Daboll was friends with Polian’s son.  If you make the right connections once you get in, you can keep finding work.  It’s why terrible coaches keep getting rehired.

[Phil The Thrill]

11 minutes ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

I hate him as the OC...so much today

He’s getting one more year to get it right.