jrober38 Posted November 13, 2019 Posted November 13, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Here I am. You have no credibility judging Qbs given your Winston thing. You come off as being an expert, yet you have never to my knowledge informed anyone here if you have a history as a football coach, have a history as a Qb, etc. Thus your opinion is no better (or worse ) than any one else around here, other than the glaring miss on Winston. Why don't you just simply say you screwed up on Winston? Allen needs to continue improving. Not one person argues that point. As he continues progressing and learning he should get better. What I say is this: any young QB that can have as many good fourth quarter comebacks as he has (as yes, if he plays better the first three quarters it may not be as necessary) is worth continuing to develop. Allen needs to start playing well against good teams. Leading 4th quarter comebacks over the 25th, 28th, 31st and 9th (their kicked missed 3 field goals) ranked defenses is nice, but not really meaningful. Aside from the Titans, those games never should have been close in the first place. Weeks 12-16 he plays the T6th, T6th, 10th, 13th and 1st ranked defenses. That stretch will be his test. If he fails miserably against good opponents his seat should begin to warm up. Edited November 13, 2019 by jrober38
whorlnut Posted November 13, 2019 Posted November 13, 2019 12 minutes ago, jrober38 said: I don't see it. I see a guy who is near the bottom of the NFL in practically every passing category despite playing pretty much every horrible defense the NFL has this year. Defensive scoring ranks, PPG: New England (1st), Tennessee (9th), Philly (18th), Washington (20th), Cleveland (21st), Jets (25th), Bengals (28th), Giants (30th), Dolphins (31st). We should not be struggling so badly to score points. He's played mostly garbage opponents and the results have been terrible relative to his peers. As this thread is about, Allen is a horrible deep passer. His passes often land no where near his intended target, and having better players isn't going to change that because the passes aren't catchable already. I like your optimism, but I see Allen as being one of the worst starting QBs in the league. Upcoming defenses are: Miami (31st), Denver (T6th), Dallas (T6th), Pittsburgh (10th), Baltimore (13th), New England (1st), Jets (25th). This thing could go south in a hurry between weeks 12 to 16 when he faces all above average to very good defensive opponents. If Allen has a receiver that can fight for 50/50 balls, I’d bet the farm that he wouldn’t overthrow as much. He’s overthrowing because he knows he has small receivers that won’t win if the ball is slightly under thrown. Go get a Tee Higgins and watch how he progresses. 2 minutes ago, jrober38 said: Allen needs to start playing well against good teams. Leading 4th quarter comebacks over the 25th, 28th, 31st and 9th (their kicked missed 3 field goals) ranked defenses is nice, but not really meaningful. Aside from the Titans, those games never should have been close in the first place. Weeks 12-16 he plays the T6th, T6th, 10th, 13th and 1st ranked defenses. That stretch will be his test. If he fails miserably against good opponents his seat should begin to warm up. I can’t see him going anywhere anytime soon. He will get next year and maybe even more beyond that. The pegulas love Beane and McD and their vision. Allen is their guy. They will build through the draft and get him viable offensive weapons. 1
jrober38 Posted November 13, 2019 Posted November 13, 2019 1 minute ago, whorlnut said: If Allen has a receiver that can fight for 50/50 balls, I’d bet the farm that he wouldn’t overthrow as much. He’s overthrowing because he knows he has small receivers that won’t win if the ball is slightly under thrown. Go get a Tee Higgins and watch how he progresses. This is all hypothetical. I can understand missing a guy by 2 yards and them having to stretch for balls because the window is small, but we're talking about a QB who is regularly missing deep throws by literally 5-8 yards which suggests he's completely missing. A guy like Tee Higgins would help because he's a good player, but ultimately I don't think he makes Allen any more accurate.
whorlnut Posted November 13, 2019 Posted November 13, 2019 Just now, jrober38 said: This is all hypothetical. I can understand missing a guy by 2 yards and them having to stretch for balls because the window is small, but we're talking about a QB who is regularly missing deep throws by literally 5-8 yards which suggests he's completely missing. A guy like Tee Higgins would help because he's a good player, but ultimately I don't think he makes Allen any more accurate. You’re missing the point. The point is he is overthrowing because he knows he has to throw the ball out in front of these guys. His timing is off. It needs more practice. I’m convinced the focus this past offseason was the short to intermediate stuff, which he improved immensely. This next offseason he will work on timing on the deep stuff with his receivers. A guy like Higgins who fights for the jump ball will allow Allen the confidence to put the ball on him more than throw it out in front. This should result in more deep completions. 1
jrober38 Posted November 13, 2019 Posted November 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, whorlnut said: You’re missing the point. The point is he is overthrowing because he knows he has to throw the ball out in front of these guys. His timing is off. It needs more practice. I’m convinced the focus this past offseason was the short to intermediate stuff, which he improved immensely. This next offseason he will work on timing on the deep stuff with his receivers. A guy like Higgins who fights for the jump ball will allow Allen the confidence to put the ball on him more than throw it out in front. This should result in more deep completions. I'm not missing the point. You're just guessing. You don't know if Allen is consciously trying to do that or if he's missing by that margin because he's just not putting the ball where he intends for it to go. Allen has missed wide open receivers on deep throws this year when the window was enormous. It's not like the players have been blanketed; he's missed John Brown, Foster and McKenzie when they've been wide open running down the field with 2 full yards of separation.
whorlnut Posted November 13, 2019 Posted November 13, 2019 8 minutes ago, jrober38 said: I'm not missing the point. You're just guessing. You don't know if Allen is consciously trying to do that or if he's missing by that margin because he's just not putting the ball where he intends for it to go. Allen has missed wide open receivers on deep throws this year when the window was enormous. It's not like the players have been blanketed; he's missed John Brown, Foster and McKenzie when they've been wide open running down the field with 2 full yards of separation. And you don’t know that he isn’t. The point is we won’t know until he has that type of receiver.
Cheesus Posted November 13, 2019 Posted November 13, 2019 His deep throw looks exactly like his pro day, out throwing his receivers by 5-10 yards. 1
jrober38 Posted November 13, 2019 Posted November 13, 2019 1 minute ago, whorlnut said: And you don’t know that he isn’t. The point is we won’t know until he has that type of receiver. Again, he's missing wide open targets. If he's intentionally putting the ball into a small window and overthrowing guys by choice, then you're saying he can't read what an open vs covered receiver looks like. Guys are running free and he's missing them so badly they can't get a hand on the football.
thebandit27 Posted November 13, 2019 Posted November 13, 2019 13 hours ago, jrober38 said: Agreed. If Allen is still near the bottom of the league in QB Rating at the end of the season we should cut bait on him. The history of guys who struggled like Allen who went on to become successful after two years is few and far between. We won't do it, and everyone will go down with the ship next year. Nice of you to stop in. I've noticed that you've been active on the board after 3 specific games this season. I wonder if there's a contributing factor as to which games you decide to post about. Just thinking aloud. I'm sure there's no really, really obvious and agenda-driven pattern. 1
jrober38 Posted November 13, 2019 Posted November 13, 2019 1 minute ago, thebandit27 said: Nice of you to stop in. I've noticed that you've been active on the board after 3 specific games this season. I wonder if there's a contributing factor as to which games you decide to post about. Just thinking aloud. I'm sure there's no really, really obvious and agenda-driven pattern. What is there to talk about after we beat horrible NFL teams? I want us to beat the good teams, and to see our offense perform well against quality opponents. That hasn't happened yet. If our QB keeps struggling to perform against quality opponents, we have a big problem on our hands. The schedule going forward is significantly harder than it's been up until now. Allen has to face the T6th, T6th, 10th, 13th and #1 defense over a 5 week span. My guess is that after the 2nd Pats game a lot more people are going to be questioning if our starting QB is actually any good. 1
LOVEMESOMEBILLS Posted November 13, 2019 Posted November 13, 2019 On 11/11/2019 at 11:06 AM, TheProcess said: Neutered him. This is the exact phrase I've been using since the Pats*** game. Our coach has Josh playing like Tyrod Taylor, who could hit Sammy deep when Sammy was healthy, but then after playing under McDermott for part of a season every deep pass was either too long or too far out of bounds. You have to allow a young QB to make and learn from mistake or he'll never reach his full potential. 1
colin Posted November 13, 2019 Posted November 13, 2019 there is obviously some crusading going on in this thread, and allen clearly has some serious issues to work through, but our weapons are just not good. mackenzie, foster (who just gets no burn and can't adjust to a ball it seems), duke (who didn't make this sorry roster at the start of the season) and robers are just not NFL WRs of any merit. they don't get seperation, don't jump up for contested balls, and don't seem to have any fluid route running ability. our backs have shown not much in the pass game either. we just lack dynamic play making ability. for all his shortcomings, if allen was throwing to the same crew that mayfield was throwing too, i'm pretty sure we'd be putting up a few more points a game. i still can't figure out how this FO didn't attempt to trade for a WR.
NFLBighits Posted November 13, 2019 Posted November 13, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, colin said: there is obviously some crusading going on in this thread, and allen clearly has some serious issues to work through, but our weapons are just not good. mackenzie, foster (who just gets no burn and can't adjust to a ball it seems), duke (who didn't make this sorry roster at the start of the season) and robers are just not NFL WRs of any merit. they don't get seperation, don't jump up for contested balls, and don't seem to have any fluid route running ability. our backs have shown not much in the pass game either. we just lack dynamic play making ability. for all his shortcomings, if allen was throwing to the same crew that mayfield was throwing too, i'm pretty sure we'd be putting up a few more points a game. i still can't figure out how this FO didn't attempt to trade for a WR. I don't know why we didn't draft DK Metcalf in the 2nd round, they were offered a trade to slide down a few picks but stayed put and drafted a undersized defensive tackle ugh! They could've picked up extra picks by sliding three down spots, would've could've should've. Edited November 13, 2019 by NFLBighits Misspelled and added 2
colin Posted November 13, 2019 Posted November 13, 2019 1 minute ago, NFLBighits said: I don't know why we didn't draft DK Metcalf in the 2nd round, they were offered a trade to slide down a few picks but stayed out and drafted a undersized defensive tackle ugh! we also got our hands on our rotational RT, HUGE GET! 1
HeHateMe Posted November 13, 2019 Posted November 13, 2019 7 minutes ago, NFLBighits said: I don't know why we didn't draft DK Metcalf in the 2nd round, they were offered a trade to slide down a few picks but stayed put and drafted a undersized defensive tackle ugh! They could've picked up extra picks by sliding three down spots, would've could've should've. I feel like this needs to be emphasized more as a hit on Beanes credibility. A real chance to get a WR steal-WR1 prototype in the 2nd round and we pass. Those guys are usually gone in the first 5 picks every year. That just isn't going to happen again..
Royale with Cheese Posted November 13, 2019 Posted November 13, 2019 1 minute ago, HeHateMe said: I feel like this needs to be emphasized more as a hit on Beanes credibility. A real chance to get a WR steal-WR1 prototype in the 2nd round and we pass. Those guys are usually gone in the first 5 picks every year. That just isn't going to happen again.. DK isn't one of those guys that are gone in the first 5 picks. Those guys don't slip to the 2nd round. If they slip out of the top 5, they aren't getting out of the top 12.
HeHateMe Posted November 13, 2019 Posted November 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: DK isn't one of those guys that are gone in the first 5 picks. Those guys don't slip to the 2nd round. If they slip out of the top 5, they aren't getting out of the top 12. He had the talent to easily be a top 10 pick... the injury concern scared teams off and he dropped. Bills should have taken him in the 2nd round.
Royale with Cheese Posted November 13, 2019 Posted November 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, HeHateMe said: He had the talent to easily be a top 10 pick... the injury concern scared teams off and he dropped. Bills should have taken him in the 2nd round. It wasn't the injury concern, it was he was a one trick pony and could only run one route. If Tom Brady has a better shuttle time and 3 cone drill....that definitely raises red flags. DK Metcalf was slower than this.
thebandit27 Posted November 13, 2019 Posted November 13, 2019 2 hours ago, jrober38 said: What is there to talk about after we beat horrible NFL teams? I want us to beat the good teams, and to see our offense perform well against quality opponents. That hasn't happened yet. If our QB keeps struggling to perform against quality opponents, we have a big problem on our hands. The schedule going forward is significantly harder than it's been up until now. Allen has to face the T6th, T6th, 10th, 13th and #1 defense over a 5 week span. My guess is that after the 2nd Pats game a lot more people are going to be questioning if our starting QB is actually any good. So the fact that you only show up to criticize the QB after a loss isn't, in fact, lost on you.
jrober38 Posted November 13, 2019 Posted November 13, 2019 3 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: So the fact that you only show up to criticize the QB after a loss isn't, in fact, lost on you. Why does it matter? Do you think Josh Allen is playing well? Do you think it's inappropriate to criticize him base off his play, and him being among the worst QBs in the league statistically?
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