USABuffaloFan Posted November 12, 2019 Posted November 12, 2019 12 hours ago, 34-78-83 said: Nope, not close. Allen connects on many , MANY types of passes that Tyrod wouldn't dream of releasing. Allen a better runner and also a better passer. Allen needs consistency and a better OC will do that for him. 1
BarleyNY Posted November 12, 2019 Posted November 12, 2019 4 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: So neither Moss nor Rice would've caught the deep ball that Brown dropped against Norman last week? I disagree It’s funny. When we drafted Allen I said that if we want him to be successful we’re going to have to treat him like Duante Culpepper and find him a Moss and Carter to run under deep balls he chucks up for grabs. That’s absolutely a viable way to run an offense, but let’s not pretend that it wouldn’t be covering up a big QB deficiency with great WR talent. It’s also viable to find a QB who can throw accurately and beat man coverage somewhere other than short and over the middle. 1
USABuffaloFan Posted November 12, 2019 Posted November 12, 2019 6 minutes ago, BarleyNY said: Does anyone seriously think the problem with our offense is the TEs? Someone here thinks Knox is. 1 minute ago, BarleyNY said: It’s funny. When we drafted Allen I said that if we want him to be successful we’re going to have to treat him like Duante Culpepper and find him a Moss and Carter to run under deep balls he chucks up for grabs. That’s absolutely a viable way to run an offense, but let’s not pretend that it wouldn’t be covering up a big QB deficiency with great WR talent. It’s also viable to find a QB who can throw accurately and beat man coverage somewhere other than short and over the middle. 1 minute ago, BarleyNY said: It’s funny. When we drafted Allen I said that if we want him to be successful we’re going to have to treat him like Duante Culpepper and find him a Moss and Carter to run under deep balls he chucks up for grabs. That’s absolutely a viable way to run an offense, but let’s not pretend that it wouldn’t be covering up a big QB deficiency with great WR talent. It’s also viable to find a QB who can throw accurately and beat man coverage somewhere other than short and over the middle. Bills make it seem impossible
nickrage Posted November 12, 2019 Posted November 12, 2019 An int on Allen’s deep ball is basically a punt let him rip it 2
PaattMaann Posted November 12, 2019 Posted November 12, 2019 21 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: Saying that he's the only practical option at TE is a FAR different statement than stating that he's a trusted pass catcher, which is what you said. He's the opposite of that--unreliable. He drops the ball. A lot. So neither Moss nor Rice would've caught the deep ball that Brown dropped against Norman last week? I disagree I was only referring to this weeks deep ball problems, he wasnt even close...im not talking about all deep passes this year, my bad for not being specific
oldmanfan Posted November 12, 2019 Posted November 12, 2019 God, these threads are tiresome. Here is the reality: Josh Allen is the starting QB for the Buffalo Bills. He will start this entire year unless he gets hurt. Barkley is a backup, and will not be starting any games this year. Josh Allen is not a perfect QB yet, which is by far more the rule than the exception for second year QBs. He needs to be on the field to give this team the best chance to win games. He needs to do better with reads. Everyone can see that. He needs to play better in the middle of games, generally starts out OK and obviously is a very good 4th quarter guy. Everyone should also see that. When he makes his reads correctly and delivers the ball, he is very much on target with his receivers. Everyone who is watching objectively should see that. He is a threat with his feet as well, which gives him a skill set others don't have. Everyone can see that. He needs to figure out which guys to go to quicker, and he has to quit being afraid to throw picks on his long bombs; if they get picked it's basically a punt anyway. Everyone (except maybe Daboll) sees that. He will either get better with his reads and such over the course on his season and next, or he won't. If he does, he is poised to be really good. If he doesn't then he won't be the guy. But the only way to find that out is to play him, and bottom line is playing him (along with a strong D, which is what McD and Beane set out to do) the Bills are 6-3 and currently in 5th in the conference. We all need to quit trying to put so much emphasis on different metrics, and quit using them to change the discussion about the kid. Last year it was \the magical completion percentage of 60%. Early in the year it was clear he figured that out, so the metric changed to 300 yard games. When data was shown that 300 yard games and wins don't really correlate, all of a sudden it switched to completion percentage for long passes. When he hits a couple of those God knows what the next pivot will be to try and denigrate the kid. I have no idea if he will be the guy in Buffalo for the next 20 years. I hope so, I think any young QB that shows what he does in the fourth quarter of games has a really good shot at being the guy. No question he has to improve his performances, has to improve his reads so the offense is more effective. It's also true that receivers need to catch the ball when thrown to them, It's also true the line has to provide more consistent protection. It's also true the OC needs to get the most talented guys he has on the field (Singletary) and get them the ball. Let the kid play, let him develop, let him use his strengths as a player and let him (hopefully) shore up his weaknesses. 1 2
thebandit27 Posted November 12, 2019 Posted November 12, 2019 5 minutes ago, PaattMaann said: I was only referring to this weeks deep ball problems, he wasnt even close...im not talking about all deep passes this year, my bad for not being specific Actually his first deep shot to Foster was money. TD if Ward doesn't interfere.
BuffaloBillsGospel Posted November 12, 2019 Posted November 12, 2019 On 11/11/2019 at 9:49 AM, Allen2Moulds said: Sorry if someone already made this point, but I'm at work and didn't have time to read through every post. Josh Allen is playing mistake free the last few games (bravo), but it's also severely hindering him. The clear reason for not being able to connect on a deep ball, is his fear of throwing an interception. As a result, the ball always ends up in no man's land. Not only can it not be picked, but also has no chance of our guys coming down with it. I mean, he hasn't even been close. It's grossly overthrown every-time. I've felt this way for weeks, but he just confirmed it in his post game presser. They asked him if he can pin-point the reason, for not being able to hit the deep ball, and he just said, I don't know, followed by.......I don't know if I'm super anxious about under-throwing it, and getting an interception. The coaches have him playing scared. This is a major detriment to his development. News flash.....we are not winning the Super Bowl this year, but we have this special talent, that we need to develop. Peyton threw 33 picks his rookie year. I'm sick of this ultra conservative approach. The only we we are beating the better teams in this league, is if Josh plays up to his potential, and that's not happening with the leash that they have on him. Let him go, and win or lose, live with the results. We'll be better in the long run for it. Unfortunately as fans of a losing team for over a decade, I think the real problem is us as fans expect instant gratification from Allen, it's clear he's developing each week but it can't come soon enough. He clearly needs time to develop much like Big Ben, Matthew Stafford, Jared Goff and the list goes on. I have no problem with what they're doing with Allen but the more baffling situation is the running game, if were game managing Allen why aren't we running the ball down teams throat to set up that big home run throw from Josh? To me that's the more pressing issue than Josh Allen, since imo I think he's developing nicely. 1 1
PaattMaann Posted November 12, 2019 Posted November 12, 2019 13 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: Actually his first deep shot to Foster was money. TD if Ward doesn't interfere. fair point there too, "on the shots that Josh took deep yesterday that were incomplete, and not interefered with, so the other 5ish, were no where near their targets, and it wouldnt have mattered who the WRs were". There. Pick that one apart BANDIT! : )
thebandit27 Posted November 12, 2019 Posted November 12, 2019 26 minutes ago, PaattMaann said: fair point there too, "on the shots that Josh took deep yesterday that were incomplete, and not interefered with, so the other 5ish, were no where near their targets, and it wouldnt have mattered who the WRs were". There. Pick that one apart BANDIT! : ) Tyreek Hill would've caught up to the McKenzie deep throw 1
BananaB Posted November 12, 2019 Posted November 12, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, oldmanfan said: God, these threads are tiresome. Here is the reality: Josh Allen is the starting QB for the Buffalo Bills. He will start this entire year unless he gets hurt. Barkley is a backup, and will not be starting any games this year. Josh Allen is not a perfect QB yet, which is by far more the rule than the exception for second year QBs. He needs to be on the field to give this team the best chance to win games. He needs to do better with reads. Everyone can see that. He needs to play better in the middle of games, generally starts out OK and obviously is a very good 4th quarter guy. Everyone should also see that. When he makes his reads correctly and delivers the ball, he is very much on target with his receivers. Everyone who is watching objectively should see that. He is a threat with his feet as well, which gives him a skill set others don't have. Everyone can see that. He needs to figure out which guys to go to quicker, and he has to quit being afraid to throw picks on his long bombs; if they get picked it's basically a punt anyway. Everyone (except maybe Daboll) sees that. He will either get better with his reads and such over the course on his season and next, or he won't. If he does, he is poised to be really good. If he doesn't then he won't be the guy. But the only way to find that out is to play him, and bottom line is playing him (along with a strong D, which is what McD and Beane set out to do) the Bills are 6-3 and currently in 5th in the conference. We all need to quit trying to put so much emphasis on different metrics, and quit using them to change the discussion about the kid. Last year it was \the magical completion percentage of 60%. Early in the year it was clear he figured that out, so the metric changed to 300 yard games. When data was shown that 300 yard games and wins don't really correlate, all of a sudden it switched to completion percentage for long passes. When he hits a couple of those God knows what the next pivot will be to try and denigrate the kid. I have no idea if he will be the guy in Buffalo for the next 20 years. I hope so, I think any young QB that shows what he does in the fourth quarter of games has a really good shot at being the guy. No question he has to improve his performances, has to improve his reads so the offense is more effective. It's also true that receivers need to catch the ball when thrown to them, It's also true the line has to provide more consistent protection. It's also true the OC needs to get the most talented guys he has on the field (Singletary) and get them the ball. Let the kid play, let him develop, let him use his strengths as a player and let him (hopefully) shore up his weaknesses. Fans gotta relax and sit back and watch. They complain that we only eat ***** teams or only beat them because of their own mistakes and not the way we played. We also lost 2 games in the same fashion. 9 games into the season we have only let 1 game slip out of hand this year, that’s big for Buffalo. Allens the guy right now, it isn’t changing. Seems some people on this board go from one thing to the next with him. He cleans one thing up and they just move on bitching about something else.... My biggest complaint about Taylor was when the game was on the line his play seemed to get worse. Allen is far from perfect and has a long way to go, but when times ticking down and we need a score he has done his job. With our defense that translates to Ws. Years ago I seen an interview with Bellichick and they asked him what he liked most about Brady coming out of college, his answer was that at the end of games that’s when he played his best football. Its actually how Brady’s first few years in NE looked also. Allens got a long way to go but has shown improvement along the way so far. Games aren’t gonna be perfect, possessions aren’t gonna be perfect but if he keeps finding away to put us in position to win that’s all that matters....Winning by 1 is the same as winning by 20, it just isn’t as flashy. Edited November 12, 2019 by BananaB 1
blacklabel Posted November 12, 2019 Posted November 12, 2019 (edited) I agree that Josh seems to be in his head about the deep ball. He's clearly thinking way too much and not allowing himself to play and just rip it. I mean, obviously he's capable of it. That deep shot to Foster last year against Jacksonville was pure beauty, especially with the way the pocket was imploding on him. I thought it was gonna be a sack and then suddenly the ball pops outta there and hits him in stride. I understand the coaching staff's tendency to teach him to err on the side of caution, though. I said this in another thread but offensively, they aren't at a point where they can't afford the random "heroball" turnover. The defense already carries this team as it is, they don't wanna be putting them back on the field an extra one or two or three times a game due to a turnover. And if those turnovers turn into points for the opponent, this offense just doesn't have the firepower yet to dig themselves out of a hole. As it stands right now, the model for this team is to play strong defense while protecting a lead. I don't know if that's why the offense seems to stall/get conservative once they do have a lead, but it'd be nice to see them keep their foot on the gas and really put teams away. Just don't think they're there yet. But once they have the roster and the offense where they want it, maybe they loosen the reins on Allen a little bit. Beane more or less said as much when they drafted him that they were alright with his over-aggressiveness in certain areas because they feel like his talent/positives outweigh the negatives. They just need to get to a point where they're able to take those chances and overcome them if they don't go their way. Edited November 12, 2019 by blacklabel
GoBills808 Posted November 12, 2019 Posted November 12, 2019 1 hour ago, thebandit27 said: Tyreek Hill would've caught up to the McKenzie deep throw McKenzie would have caught up to the McKenzie deep throw if he doesn't start looking for the ball over the wrong shoulder before it's even been thrown.
Georgia Bill Posted November 13, 2019 Posted November 13, 2019 23 hours ago, jrober38 said: The major issue is that Josh Allen routinely misses his receivers on deep balls by 10 yards. No wide receiver in the NFL is going to make up for his area code accuracy. No doubt he's been overthrowing them. But as others have mentioned I think he's had it drilled into his head that we need to be a ball control type of offense with very few turnovers. So he's probably overly concerned with not throwing the ball deep enough which could give the defender a chance to pick it off. We have a catch-22 situation. The only way Josh is going to get comfortable and accurate on deep throws is throwing a lot of them in game situations i.e. - working on the long ball. But in the short term that would mean a likelihood of a lot of stalled drives and/or increased potential for interceptions - if he starts throwing them close to the receiver. While we are in the playoff hunt (despite the fact that if we make it we aren't going anywhere) fans will crucify him for any of that if it costs us wins. I think the bottom line is for now he should have no more than one deep throw per game unless/until we are eliminated from the playoffs. If we are, we should take the shackles off and release the Kracken. If he gets a lot of opportunities to throw deep without the "don't cost us the playoffs" pressure, and still doesn't improve, well then we know what we have. And frankly, I'm pretty happy with him without the deep ball, if it comes to that.
jrober38 Posted November 13, 2019 Posted November 13, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Georgia Bill said: No doubt he's been overthrowing them. But as others have mentioned I think he's had it drilled into his head that we need to be a ball control type of offense with very few turnovers. So he's probably overly concerned with not throwing the ball deep enough which could give the defender a chance to pick it off. We have a catch-22 situation. The only way Josh is going to get comfortable and accurate on deep throws is throwing a lot of them in game situations i.e. - working on the long ball. But in the short term that would mean a likelihood of a lot of stalled drives and/or increased potential for interceptions - if he starts throwing them close to the receiver. While we are in the playoff hunt (despite the fact that if we make it we aren't going anywhere) fans will crucify him for any of that if it costs us wins. I think the bottom line is for now he should have no more than one deep throw per game unless/until we are eliminated from the playoffs. If we are, we should take the shackles off and release the Kracken. If he gets a lot of opportunities to throw deep without the "don't cost us the playoffs" pressure, and still doesn't improve, well then we know what we have. And frankly, I'm pretty happy with him without the deep ball, if it comes to that. I think he's just not a very good passer because that's what he's always been. Allen is an NFL QB. He should already know how to not miss receivers on throws more than 30 yards downfield by 10 yards. 7 hours ago, GoBills808 said: McKenzie would have caught up to the McKenzie deep throw if he doesn't start looking for the ball over the wrong shoulder before it's even been thrown. His footwork and throwing motion couldn't look worse. His mechanics are just a mess. This appears to be some sort of long developing corner route that Allen throws to the wrong shoulder. The ball should be thrown to the sideline so McKenzie can adjust his route and run underneath it. In all seriousness the ball is thrown about 10-15 yards from the spot it should land which is much closer to the sideline. Edited November 13, 2019 by jrober38
Nextmanup Posted November 13, 2019 Posted November 13, 2019 8 hours ago, oldmanfan said: God, these threads are tiresome. Here is the reality: Josh Allen is the starting QB for the Buffalo Bills. He will start this entire year unless he gets hurt. Barkley is a backup, and will not be starting any games this year. Josh Allen is not a perfect QB yet, which is by far more the rule than the exception for second year QBs. He needs to be on the field to give this team the best chance to win games. He needs to do better with reads. Everyone can see that. He needs to play better in the middle of games, generally starts out OK and obviously is a very good 4th quarter guy. Everyone should also see that. When he makes his reads correctly and delivers the ball, he is very much on target with his receivers. Everyone who is watching objectively should see that. He is a threat with his feet as well, which gives him a skill set others don't have. Everyone can see that. He needs to figure out which guys to go to quicker, and he has to quit being afraid to throw picks on his long bombs; if they get picked it's basically a punt anyway. Everyone (except maybe Daboll) sees that. He will either get better with his reads and such over the course on his season and next, or he won't. If he does, he is poised to be really good. If he doesn't then he won't be the guy. But the only way to find that out is to play him, and bottom line is playing him (along with a strong D, which is what McD and Beane set out to do) the Bills are 6-3 and currently in 5th in the conference. We all need to quit trying to put so much emphasis on different metrics, and quit using them to change the discussion about the kid. Last year it was \the magical completion percentage of 60%. Early in the year it was clear he figured that out, so the metric changed to 300 yard games. When data was shown that 300 yard games and wins don't really correlate, all of a sudden it switched to completion percentage for long passes. When he hits a couple of those God knows what the next pivot will be to try and denigrate the kid. I have no idea if he will be the guy in Buffalo for the next 20 years. I hope so, I think any young QB that shows what he does in the fourth quarter of games has a really good shot at being the guy. No question he has to improve his performances, has to improve his reads so the offense is more effective. It's also true that receivers need to catch the ball when thrown to them, It's also true the line has to provide more consistent protection. It's also true the OC needs to get the most talented guys he has on the field (Singletary) and get them the ball. Let the kid play, let him develop, let him use his strengths as a player and let him (hopefully) shore up his weaknesses. I hope the team is nowhere near as patient as you seem to be. We will know everything we need to know about Josh Allen at the end of this season, assuming he plays all the games and stays healthy. No reason to piss away a 3rd season with him as the QB. 1 1 1
oldmanfan Posted November 13, 2019 Posted November 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, Nextmanup said: I hope the team is nowhere near as patient as you seem to be. We will know everything we need to know about Josh Allen at the end of this season, assuming he plays all the games and stays healthy. No reason to piss away a 3rd season with him as the QB. And that shows your lack of understanding.
jrober38 Posted November 13, 2019 Posted November 13, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Nextmanup said: I hope the team is nowhere near as patient as you seem to be. We will know everything we need to know about Josh Allen at the end of this season, assuming he plays all the games and stays healthy. No reason to piss away a 3rd season with him as the QB. Agreed. If Allen is still near the bottom of the league in QB Rating at the end of the season we should cut bait on him. The history of guys who struggled like Allen who went on to become successful after two years is few and far between. We won't do it, and everyone will go down with the ship next year. Edited November 13, 2019 by jrober38
GoBills808 Posted November 13, 2019 Posted November 13, 2019 9 minutes ago, jrober38 said: His footwork and throwing motion couldn't look worse. His mechanics are just a mess. This appears to be some sort of long developing corner route that Allen throws to the wrong shoulder. The ball should be thrown to the sideline so McKenzie can adjust his route and run underneath it. In all seriousness the ball is thrown about 10-15 yards from the spot it should land which is much closer to the sideline. Literally all of this is wrong. His footwork is fine. It's playaction into a 7 step drop, he hits his top and sets his feet, looks the safety off, and throws the ball exactly where it's supposed to be. His throwing motion is cut a little short because of the guy hitting him in the face, but his mechanics are fine. There's literally nothing to what you're saying on this play. It's a standard leak/mesh and he's running a seam...not a 'long developing corner' lol. And McKenzie's looking for the ball before it's even been thrown. It's on the wideout not to panic. The ball's where it should be, McKenzie's not. 1
jrober38 Posted November 13, 2019 Posted November 13, 2019 7 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: Literally all of this is wrong. His footwork is fine. It's playaction into a 7 step drop, he hits his top and sets his feet, looks the safety off, and throws the ball exactly where it's supposed to be. His throwing motion is cut a little short because of the guy hitting him in the face, but his mechanics are fine. There's literally nothing to what you're saying on this play. It's a standard leak/mesh and he's running a seam...not a 'long developing corner' lol. And McKenzie's looking for the ball before it's even been thrown. It's on the wideout not to panic. The ball's where it should be, McKenzie's not. Sorry but it's not on the WR. The WR did his job and is wide open. Unfortunately our QB yet again overthrew a wide open receiver on a deep ball by a good 4-5 yards and it was no where close to being completed.
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