100% problem with the Deep Ball this year.

[USABuffaloFan]

4 minutes ago, london_bills said:

But your talking like they have to accept that he will get it. They don't have to accept that he will get it. You continually evaluate, that's what you do. They cannot be scared of their perception. 

 

Is it a difficult situation for Beane to draft another QB? Sure. There would be alot of questions. 

 

'Josh has shown enough growth'. 

No, not for me. 

 

But what I think won't ultimately matter. Let's say Beane thinks that Allen may not be the guy - he will be bringing someone in to compete. It depends on whether the pegulas want to define beanes career by Allen. In the same way that Allen should get more time, should Beane not be allowed to miss on a project QB? 

Draft a guy 3rd and compete next year with Barkley. Unless you can get a Burr or better, this was Beane's hand.

5 minutes ago, london_bills said:

But your talking like they have to accept that he will get it. They don't have to accept that he will get it. You continually evaluate, that's what you do. They cannot be scared of their perception. 

 

Is it a difficult situation for Beane to draft another QB? Sure. There would be alot of questions. 

 

'Josh has shown enough growth'. 

No, not for me. 

 

But what I think won't ultimately matter. Let's say Beane thinks that Allen may not be the guy - he will be bringing someone in to compete. It depends on whether the pegulas want to define beanes career by Allen. In the same way that Allen should get more time, should Beane not be allowed to miss on a project QB? 

Rivers

6 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

His deep balls often miss the receiver by 10 yards. 

 

In all seriousness I remember watching highlights from his pro day, and people were blown away by the arm and the fact he can throw it 80 yards, and I was watching it and he was throwing incomplete passes that his receivers couldn't get to.

 

That hasn't changed one bit since he got to Buffalo. 

At least not enough to say it is NOT a problem.

[peterpan]

Guys.  You are operating under the assumption that Allen can hit those deep passes.  He's never been that type of player.  He misses passes all the time, and he always has, including his entire college career. 

 

Besides, the "never underthrown a deep pass" coaching philosophy is so 1990s.  These days you thrown the ball and who cares if it's underthrown, because you'll get a PI call if it is. 

 

Edited November 12, 2019 by peterpan

[CaptnCoke11]

10 hours ago, Hebert19 said:

I'm saying throw those balls with more touch rather than rifling them 

When he has he’s severely under thrown them.  

[Cripple Creek]

28 minutes ago, USABuffaloFan said:

Not my stats, got them from Mariora D&C, Wikopedia and CBS Sports. I just counted off where they were.

 

That's a long winded way of saying yes.  Relax, step back and consider for a second whether this one could be closer to the truth.  Would that be a bad thing?  Provide your work if you're that entrenched.

[USABuffaloFan]

2 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said:

That's a long winded way of saying yes.  Relax, step back and consider for a second whether this one could be closer to the truth.  Would that be a bad thing?  Provide your work if you're that entrenched.

I actually don't need the stats, I know what my eyes see. Though I am 54 years old with progressive tri-focals, LMAO!

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Allen has never been an accurate passer in his life. My goodness people. How many excuses are you going to come up with? He's not intentionally throwing the ball 10 yards past the WR. He's also been short at times. He's just not accurate. Why make an excuse?

Edited November 12, 2019 by Buffalo_Stampede

[klos63]

4 hours ago, USABuffaloFan said:

Not writing this to bash Josh Allen, I like him and think he SOME DAY will be a great QB. The problem I have is the Bills could have won two more games with a passer that can hit the long ball. Can Josh throw far, YES. Does Josh have touch to drop a ball over the top shoulder, haven't seen that yet. He is 6-3 so what do you do about this that 9 games hasn't shown you. Can the Bills offense beat Baltimore, Dallas, New England, Pittsburgh and even Denver. Is this Bills team just a QB away? Can they win this year in the playoffs? If your answering YES than Barkley must be given a shot. If your not sure or NO then stay the course and see if Josh develops. I am not saying get rid of Josh, just saying you never hand someone a job without working for it. Josh's upside is huge if this is done right. He is not playing that much better than Taylor at this point of his career. Tough decision, at this point though I see this season's playoff chances in jeopardy with Josh playing like this. 

I'm a bit concerned about Allen right now, but what has Barkley done in 6 years to even warrant being on a roster, let alone start.

[Dablitzkrieg]

10 hours ago, Mrbojanglezs said:

Your probably right. The coaches are brain washing him to play conservatively and protect the football so he is becoming scared to throw interceptions on the deep ball.

I've said this for 4 weeks.  They ruined him by neutering him.  Now he fumbles 1-2 times a game.  We're *****

[Buffalo_Stampede]

6 minutes ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

I've said this for 4 weeks.  They ruined him by neutering him.  Now he fumbles 1-2 times a game.  We're *****

He's always fumbled.

[LSHMEAB]

4 hours ago, Seven-N-Nine said:

 

This I agree with.  Allen is the starter until Pegula fires McDermott.

And wouldn't that be a shame IF Allen is the problem.

 

People blamed his conservatism in year one on the fact that he didn't trust the QB(Taylor). What if that's still the case?

 

He IS a conservative coach by nature; I think that's pretty evident. But I also believe he knew full well going for it on 4th and 4 was the right decision. I "believe" he didn't want Allen to fail and face the heat. I think he made the decision to own the heat. That's an opinion, not a fact. 

 

I'll tell you this; now that McDermott is facing the heat, he's gonna let Allen sink or swim the next time a similar situation arises. He's not gonna continue to take the fall because he has his own ego(we all do).

 

I actually LIKE McDermott, which seems to be the contrarian view these days. Yes, he's conservative, but he's the best HC the Bills have had in a while and he's proven he can get max wins from the roster provided. Maybe he's not a great HC. Maybe he's too conservative. We just don't know because he hasn't had enough time.

 

But I will say that BEANE chose Allen. And what I see happening going forward IF Allen doesn't improve is McDermott taking the fall and Beane getting the chance to choose another HC. Again, completely unfair if the QB is the problem. 

[Happy]

6 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

And wouldn't that be a shame IF Allen is the problem.

 

People blamed his conservatism in year one on the fact that he didn't trust the QB(Taylor). What if that's still the case?

 

He IS a conservative coach by nature; I think that's pretty evident. But I also believe he knew full well going for it on 4th and 4 was the right decision. I "believe" he didn't want Allen to fail and face the heat. I think he made the decision to own the heat. That's an opinion, not a fact. 

 

I'll tell you this; now that McDermott is facing the heat, he's gonna let Allen sink or swim the next time a similar situation arises. He's not gonna continue to take the fall because he has his own ego(we all do).

 

I actually LIKE McDermott, which seems to be the contrarian view these days. Yes, he's conservative, but he's the best HC the Bills have had in a while and he's proven he can get max wins from the roster provided. Maybe he's not a great HC. Maybe he's too conservative. We just don't know because he hasn't had enough time.

 

But I will say that BEANE chose Allen. And what I see happening going forward IF Allen doesn't improve is McDermott taking the fall and Beane getting the chance to choose another HC. Again, completely unfair if the QB is the problem. 

 

What if Daboll is more of the problem than Allen?  Could Daboll's offense be too complex for where Allen is at this point in his career, as well as a corps of WRs in the first and second year on the team?  A lot of plays are taking a long time to develop; I'm sure you saw this by Allen holding the ball far too long.  Sure, some of it may be on the WR, but other instances could be that the QB and WRs are trying to execute an offense they don't fully grasp.  If Daboll is not catering his offense to where Josh is in his career, that would be a Daboll problem, and by default a McDermott problem.

 

I don't see McD being fired at the end of this year; I do think Daboll could be gone.  Any heat that McD is taking for the offense woes is deserved.

[LSHMEAB]

5 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

What if Daboll is more of the problem than Allen?  Could Daboll's offense be too complex for where Allen is at this point in his career, as well as a corps of WRs in the first and second year on the team?  A lot of plays are taking a long time to develop; I'm sure you saw this by Allen holding the ball far too long.  Sure, some of it may be on the WR, but other instances could be that the QB and WRs are trying to execute an offense they don't fully grasp.  If Daboll is not catering his offense to where Josh is in his career, that would be a Daboll problem, and by default a McDermott problem.

 

I don't see McD being fired at the end of this year; I do think Daboll could be gone.  Any heat that McD is taking for the offense woes is deserved.

That's how I see it playing out. Daboll will be fired and McD will get a third crack at it. I never understood the Daboll hire to begin with. He had NEVER produced results in the NFL. The excuse was that he didn't have a QB. Well, this isn't working here so I fully expect the first move to be moving on from Daboll and McD choosing a 3rd OC, which is pretty rare and not a good look for McDermott. The hope is that A)he hires the right guy and B)Allen improves. Both things need to happen. I really don't think you can go into next season with the same OC/QB. This offense is fundamentally flawed and the franchise needs to find out if Allen is the guy. So he'll get a shot with a new OC. That's what I expect anyways.

[CincyBillsFan]

11 hours ago, bmur66 said:

Do we have a receiver that you can throw a 50/50 ball to with a high probability he will make the catch?

 

No. 

 

But folks who complain about Allen ignore this simple fact.  Think about the catches that were made by the Cleveland WR's yesterday.  I have not seen a Bill's receiver make a catch as good as that Landry catch on the Browns game winning TD drive over the last TWO YEARS.

 

And I still have that Golden Tate catch against Dallas last Monday night burned into my eyes.  Or the Amari Cooper catches last night.  Allen definitely misses some open receivers and he definitely has to improve but his receivers are still dropping passes and they NEVER make spectacular catches to bail him out.

 

The Bill's offensive problems are a TEAM problem NOT a Josh Allen problem.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[GregPersons]

The major issue is that the incompetence so far means that defenses rightfully don't need to worry about it. They can rush the passer and not be giving up any kind of homerun with the lapsed coverage. We haven't shown we can make teams pay for that from the passing game -- Allen has burned blitzers successfully but it's usually by running. Throwing under pressure or after scrambling in the backfield has very rarely worked out with him, so far.

 

Put Foster on the field every snap, a straight line vertical to the end zone, every single play. If you have nothing else, if you're going to throw it away, throw it to the endzone. 

 

I like John Brown as the medium/deep threat, and Beasley / Knox Kroft / Singletary ought to be doing simple quick hit routes, curls/slants.

[uticaclub]

38 minutes ago, klos63 said:

I'm a bit concerned about Allen right now, but what has Barkley done in 6 years to even warrant being on a roster, let alone start.

McDermotts most successful offense game was when Barkley waxed the Jets

[billsintaiwan]

11 hours ago, Allen2Moulds said:

Sorry if someone already made this point, but I'm at work and didn't have time to read through every post. 

 

Josh Allen is playing mistake free the last few games (bravo), but it's also severely hindering him.  The clear reason for not being able to connect on a deep ball, is his fear of throwing an interception.  As a result, the ball always ends up in no man's land.  Not only can it not be picked, but also has no chance of our guys coming down with it.  I mean, he hasn't even been close.  It's grossly overthrown every-time.  I've felt this way for weeks, but he just confirmed it in his post game presser.  They asked him if he can pin-point the reason, for not being able to hit the deep ball, and he just said, I don't know, followed by.......I don't know if I'm super anxious about under-throwing it, and getting an interception. The coaches have him playing scared. This is a major detriment to his development. News flash.....we are not winning the Super Bowl this year, but we have this special talent, that we need to develop. Peyton threw 33 picks his rookie year.  I'm sick of this ultra conservative approach.  The only we we are beating the better teams in this league, is if Josh plays up to his potential, and that's not happening with the leash that they have on him.  Let him go, and win or lose, live with the results.  We'll be better in the long run for it.

I also think part of it is having zero confidence that his receiver will come down with a 50/50 ball. I reckon if he had Golliday from the Lions or a similar big body guy with hands, we'd see a lot more deep completions. Maybe Duke could fill that role, but he takes a good spell to get down field.

Edited November 12, 2019 by billsintaiwan

[Coach Tuesday]

I had a problem with a deep ball one year...

[jrober38]

5 minutes ago, GregPersons said:

The major issue is that the incompetence so far means that defenses rightfully don't need to worry about it. They can rush the passer and not be giving up any kind of homerun with the lapsed coverage. We haven't shown we can make teams pay for that from the passing game -- Allen has burned blitzers successfully but it's usually by running. Throwing under pressure or after scrambling in the backfield has very rarely worked out with him, so far.

 

Put Foster on the field every snap, a straight line vertical to the end zone, every single play. If you have nothing else, if you're going to throw it away, throw it to the endzone. 

 

I like John Brown as the medium/deep threat, and Beasley / Knox Kroft / Singletary ought to be doing simple quick hit routes, curls/slants.

 

The major issue is that Josh Allen routinely misses his receivers on deep balls by 10 yards.

 

No wide receiver in the NFL is going to make up for his area code accuracy. 

[Billever76]

11 hours ago, Mrbojanglezs said:

Your probably right. The coaches are brain washing him to play conservatively and protect the football so he is becoming scared to throw interceptions on the deep ball.

If thats true then you must can your coaches and being as daboll and dorsey are the ones coaching the kid up they would be my first cuts...and bean should approach mcdermott and let him know enough with the blind loyalty of his process guys...we can replace coaches easier than we can a franchise qb!!!

[Happy]

4 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

That's how I see it playing out. Daboll will be fired and McD will get a third crack at it. I never understood the Daboll hire to begin with. He had NEVER produced results in the NFL. The excuse was that he didn't have a QB. Well, this isn't working here so I fully expect the first move to be moving on from Daboll and McD choosing a 3rd OC, which is pretty rare and not a good look for McDermott. The hope is that A)he hires the right guy and B)Allen improves. Both things need to happen. I really don't think you can go into next season with the same OC/QB. This offense is fundamentally flawed and the franchise needs to find out if Allen is the guy. So he'll get a shot with a new OC. That's what I expect anyways.

 

The thing i don't like is McD getting a third crack at the OC.  i understand that the HC picks his staff, but McD has done a TERRIBLE job at selecting the OC (and SpT coord).  I've mentioned this in other posts, but if I were the Pegulas I would hire an offensive guru/consultant and have him pick the OC to be hired; McD will have to live with that.  That probably won't happen, but as you mentioned, this looks very bad for McD.  Either way, I would hope that if McD gets a third crack at OC it is scrutinized to verify that it makes sense given where JA is in his development and what he needs to succeed.