One important question I have on the last drive

[theAteam]

Watching the play in motion, it looked to me like he took a look at Beasley right at the snap and the defender was looking like he was going to cover him so he looked over to the right and at that point he was blind to the left side and took his shot.

[Beast]

Why would Allen look the veteran’s way in a critical juncture of the game?

3 hours ago, NewEra said:

A:

 

josh is better than last year but he still has LOTS to work on

Sorry,  but he is NOT better than he was the last quarter of last season.

 

At all.

 

 

[Tcali]

3 hours ago, Thunderstruck said:

On this last attempt before the field goal- Beasley is clearly wide open at the stick and could easily get 10+ yards before getting out of bounds. This gives us time for a shot or two at the end zone (if they have faith to try that) and a much easier kick for the tie.

 

I would really like to know whether this is a case of

  a) Josh not seeing the open man

  b) The coaching staff having already pre-determined that the ball was going to be forced to Brown down the sideline

  c) An immature QB that knew Beas would be open there but decided to go for the glory anyway

  d) Other suggestions?

 

This play continues to bother me, because this is demonstrating a terrible pattern of behavior, either by our QB or our coaching staff (maybe both?)

 

 

Definitely A.

And unfortunately you cant teach that.

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

12 minutes ago, Z-Mann said:

 

Sorry, it's really difficult to be that guy who wants to compliment their co-worker on the nice tie they are wearing, all while they are late to work, missing deadlines, and makes mistakes in their numbers.  I'll try, just for you though

 

It's all good.  I don't need your charity.  

[ColoradoBills]

2 hours ago, the skycap said:

Cover 0, cover 2, man to man, no matter what defense is called if they send a blitzer don't you throw to that side of field?

 

Yes, it is a normal response to an all out blitz.  Josh and Daboll need to address this.

While THIS play was not one to go deep on I still say they got to fix this deep ball.

There is no team, repeat no team worried about the long ball because they can't execute it.

No deep threat is a big reason teams are in Cover 0 and Cover 1 against us a lot.

Josh Allen's arm demands they stretch the field.

[Billever76]

3 hours ago, Steptide said:

Could be that Browns defender to Allen's left that's about to tackle him 

Poor example to pinpoint josh failure on this play..there is literally 3 browns defenders crashing through our turnstile line there lmao

[Meatloaf63]

3 hours ago, No Place To Hyde said:

Could also be that using a snap shot of where everyone ended up gives people more time to wallow over what could have been.

 

In reality it was a split second descision made from an angle that we will not see (the QBs vantage point.). Easy to be critical seeing the play from where we can, after the fact, and with the ability to pause.

They brought 7 , Brown should have read that and cut his route off instead of the low percentage one he ran. The blitz either gets to Allen or bats the ball Most likely if he turns to Beasley. For a third and 4 at this point in the game it was a poorly designed play. Daboll is lost....

Edited November 11, 2019 by Meatloaf63

[Boatdrinks]

3 hours ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

QB’s miss open receivers all the time.  Allen missed him.  

This^^. No mystery to this.

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

The play is a problem, but the decision not to call a timeout is inexcusable. If they use that final timeout (should have had 2 btw) they have plenty of time to huddle up like they wanted to. Then, they either have an incomplete pass or a first down. They can spike it or have their FG team ready to run out. You don't need to save a timeout. It's a borderline fireable offense, and I hesitate to say borderline because it's not the first completely idiotic move McDermott has made.

[starrymessenger]

45 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

 

Well he’s not wrong that it looked like Allen threw Brown a jumper, which would be a terrible call in that situation. But what Brown said really changes that play- the ball was righ where it was supposed to if Brown was able to come back for it. 

 

Maybe I've got it wrong, but I thought he was also suggesting that he had no confidence in Brown as a receiver of jump balls and back shoulder throws (and just not because  he thinksJosh is having problems connecting). If so, with this I would disagree. With respect to the particular play call I do agree it was probably situationally inappropriate. I think some other posters have commented on the difficulties Josh is experiencing with decision making/ pre snap reads.

[Not at the table Karlos]

3 hours ago, Steptide said:

Could be that Browns defender to Allen's left that's about to tackle him 

It’s up to josh to identify that and exploit it.  If he blitzes get it out quick to the uncovered man. If he drops in coverage take your time and scan the field. 

[whatdrought]

16 minutes ago, starrymessenger said:

 

Maybe I've got it wrong, but I thought he was also suggesting that he had no confidence in Brown as a receiver of jump balls and back shoulder throws (and just not because  he thinksJosh is having problems connecting). If so, with this I would disagree. With respect to the particular play call I do agree it was probably situationally inappropriate. I think some other posters have commented on the difficulties Josh is experiencing with decision making/ pre snap reads.

 

I think he was just referring to Browns general abilities and strengths not being as a jump ball/50-50 ball guy. I think the play call was a little risky in that situation, but if it works and brown gets a TD, or gets to the 20 yard line, we're probably talking differently about it. 

[starrymessenger]

1 minute ago, whatdrought said:

 

I think he was just referring to Browns general abilities and strengths not being as a jump ball/50-50 ball guy. I think the play call was a little risky in that situation, but if it works and brown gets a TD, or gets to the 20 yard line, we're probably talking differently about it. 

 

Well he may not have the high pointer physical profile, but like I said I've seen him make those plays (esp back shoulder snags) enuf to say it can be considered part of his receiver repertoire IMO. I certainly see no reason to avoid making those throws to him.

[Reed83HOF]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

It's Cover0.  "They're coming for you, get it out NOW".  There must BE no progression tree.

You have about 2 seconds on a Cover0 Blitz to get rid of the ball before the defender gets there. There are 2 plays that are acceptable to beat Cover 0; Quick routes or a Go Route. John Brown said he got tapped into the Go route - this is an automatic read in our offense based on the defense being played. On the go Route there are 2 options, if the defender beats the DB, you go over the top, if it is tight coverage, it is a back shoulder throw (which Allen did). 

 

The other option would have been to motion the slot WR across the line and have him block the end man on the line and there for taking 2 defenders out of the play. This would leave a basic Cover 1 coverage and allow the other routes to develop. I am assuming we chose the Go route because we aren't capable of this last point. I say this only because we have ran this "Go" play 10x so far and our results are bad, very bad...

 

With the approx 2 seconds before the defender gets to the QB, this is basically a no read, just throw play and we chose the Go route...

2 hours ago, eball said:

 

Josh answered this question, I believe...said Brown was his #1 read and if you look at how quickly the play developed he really had no time to see Beasley if he was looking at Brown first because he was about to get crushed.

I wouldn't even call it a read, it was the only place he could go with it, there is no 2nd option. The play was you are throwing to Brown regardless and your only decision is if he beats the defender go over the top or tight coverage it's a back shoulder throw...

You have about 2 seconds to make this play before the FS is on Allen

[Reed83HOF]

50 minutes ago, Tcali said:

Definitely A.

And unfortunately you cant teach that.

Wrong, the answer is B. Based on the Cover 0 defense being shown, John Brown indicated that this was the predetermined play based on the Cover 0 defense. It's predetermined in our playbook to be a Go route with a back shoulder or over the top throw depending on the WR beating or being in tight coverage with the DB....

[Hapless Bills Fan]

6 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

You have about 2 seconds on a Cover0 Blitz to get rid of the ball before the defender gets there. There are 2 plays that are acceptable to beat Cover 0; Quick routes or a Go Route. John Brown said he got tapped into the Go route - this is an automatic read in our offense based on the defense being played. On the go Route there are 2 options, if the defender beats the DB, you go over the top, if it is tight coverage, it is a back shoulder throw (which Allen did). 

 

The other option would have been to motion the slot WR across the line and have him block the end man on the line and there for taking 2 defenders out of the play. This would leave a basic Cover 1 coverage and allow the other routes to develop. I am assuming we chose the Go route because we aren't capable of this last point. I say this only because we have ran this "Go" play 10x so far and our results are bad, very bad...

 

With the approx 2 seconds before the defender gets to the QB, this is basically a no read, just throw play and we chose the Go route...

I wouldn't even call it a read, it was the only place he could go with it, there is no 2nd option. The play was you are throwing to Brown regardless and your only decision is if he beats the defender go over the top or tight coverage it's a back shoulder throw...

You have about 2 seconds to make this play before the FS is on Allen

 

Thank you for explaining this again as others have, but with more depth and detail.  2 seconds at best, and less if the defender isn't there yet but in position to jump and bat the pass which would have been a likely result if Allen threw to the apparently open Beasley

 

With regard to slot.... while clearly Beasley is a mismatch for taking 2 defenders out of the play and Lee Smith is not a threat to be considered as a receiver ...one does wonder if they could achieve this by playing Duke Williams or perhaps Knox in the slot on occasion and then using them in this feature?  Perhaps I'm suggesting something that would be Bad due to the physical abilities of these players.

 

I'm discouraged.  The definition of stupidity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result, and as you point out (highlighted above) we're there.

[Houston's #1 Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, Thunderstruck said:

I won't deny that that play has been there several times this year, but do you really think Brown is the prototypical WR for back shoulder and jump ball type throws?

But DUKE is......

 

Oh, inactive. Whoops...

[MDH]

49 minutes ago, Billever76 said:

Poor example to pinpoint josh failure on this play..there is literally 3 browns defenders crashing through our turnstile line there lmao

 

It's called a blitz. There are more rushers than OL, they can't block everybody. That is on the QB to identify the blitz and know the right place to go with the ball.

 

The Browns sent 7 and the Bills have only 5 OL, they can't block them all. Allen is horrible at beating the blitz. One of the worst in the league and until he gets better at it teams are going to keep sending it.

 

All that said, Dawkins got beat on that play but it didn't effect anything, there were 3 guys running free instead of 2. Josh had his mind made up where he was going pre snap. On a 3rd and 4 with the Bills needing to get 10 yards closer for the FG they took a shot down field.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Z-Mann said:

 

Sorry, it's really difficult to be that guy who wants to compliment their co-worker on the nice tie they are wearing, all while they are late to work, missing deadlines, and makes mistakes in their numbers.  I'll try, just for you though

 

I speak as a previous people manager here.  If someone is late to work, missing deadlines, and makes mistakes in their numbers, you don't compliment them on their tie.  You look for something work related that is positive.   You try to set them up to succeed at something, then you double down on the positive while trying to dig into why they are late for work, missing deadlines, and making mistakes in their numbers.  Maybe they need an Excel workshop, or a carpool, or regular progress checks.

 

Now we aren't coaching Josh Allen, but the fact is, there are aspects even to his game yesterday that were well done.  He made some big-boy reads and throws.  He made some good decisions to not throw.

[Reed83HOF]

6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Thank you for explaining this again as others have, but with more depth and detail.  2 seconds at best, and less if the defender isn't there yet but in position to jump and bat the pass which would have been a likely result if Allen threw to the apparently open Beasley

 

With regard to slot.... while clearly Beasley is a mismatch for taking 2 defenders out of the play and Lee Smith is not a threat to be considered as a receiver ...one does wonder if they could achieve this by playing Duke Williams or perhaps Knox in the slot on occasion and then using them in this feature?  Perhaps I'm suggesting something that would be Bad due to the physical abilities of these players.

 

I'm discouraged.  The definition of stupidity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result, and as you point out (highlighted above) we're there.

We tried the play before in the game and we had it on the final drive as well to beat Cover 0
 

 

The terrible stats 3 for 10 with 2 sacks and 1 TD. The one play it doesn't look like we tried in this game to beat the Cover 0 was the slot WR in motion