One important question I have on the last drive

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

Ok; go back and watch the video of the play on YouTube and go frame by frame.  When the ball is snapped, Allen looks left and sees the far side CB sitting down over Beasley watching Allen.  As Beasley is in his route, the LB blows past Dawkins and has a direct shot at Allen.  Allen immediately shifts to the right after his initial glance to the left and the far side CB reads Allen and bails back thus leaving Beasley open.  Allen goes back shoulder to Brown as previously discussed.  Allen could have gone to Beasley immediately if he wanted to I suppose, but he has a free blitzer right in his face and the far side CB would have stayed on Beasley.  If Allen connects with Beasley, he is immediately tackled around the sticks. 

[ILBillsfan]

3 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

The Browns are showing a sell out blitz.

 

If you need 4 yards for a first down, are you throwing the fade down the sideline against press man coverage, or the 5 yard button hook to the guy whose defender is leaning on his heels 12 yards off the line of scrimmage?

 

The answer should be an easy one, and our QB picked the wrong one. 

It wasn’t a fade it was a back shoulder throw the Brown said he made a mistake on.  The same play the scored the td in the Jets.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 minutes ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

Ok; go back and watch the video of the play on YouTube and go frame by frame.  When the ball is snapped, Allen looks left and sees the far side CB sitting down over Beasley watching Allen.  As Beasley is in his route, the LB blows past Dawkins and has a direct shot at Allen.  Allen immediately shifts to the right after his initial glance to the left and the far side CB reads Allen and bails back thus leaving Beasley open.  Allen goes back shoulder to Brown as previously discussed.  Allen could have gone to Beasley immediately if he wanted to I suppose, but he has a free blitzer right in his face and the far side CB would have stayed on Beasley.  If Allen connects with Beasley, he is immediately tackled around the sticks. 

 

I had that thought about the free blitzer in his face too.  I believe there were several tipped balls earlier in the game and it may have been the better move throw away from that guy regardless of whether or not it was a pre-snap decision to hit Brown.

 

And as pointed out, the two extra rushers came from the right so "pass towards the Blitz" says "go right". 

[jrober38]

2 minutes ago, ILBillsfan said:

It wasn’t a fade it was a back shoulder throw the Brown said he made a mistake on.  The same play the scored the td in the Jets.

 

Cool.

 

How's Allen's deep passing been for the rest of the season?

[Wayne Cubed]

I will say this about the play, against Cover 0, the ball should be going to the middle of the field up the seam where there is no help. 

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

Just now, jrober38 said:

 

Cool.

 

How's Allen's deep passing been for the rest of the season?

 

Why do you hate your QB so much?

[ILBillsfan]

Just now, jrober38 said:

 

Cool.

 

How's Allen's deep passing been for the rest of the season?

Cool story since you are confused by back shoulder throws vs a deep throw.  This was ten-fifteen yard back shoulder they have had success with and if you read the post scores a TD against the Jets

[jrober38]

Just now, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

Why do you hate your QB so much?

 

I don't hate anyone. I dislike him and am critical of him because he's one of the worst starters in the league and our offense can't score points.

 

Tyrod Taylor was run out of town for posting better numbers than Allen has. If he wasn't good enough (he wasn't), why are people trying to tell me Allen is?

 

Allen is a severely flawed passer who hasn't had a really good game all season despite playing some of the worst defenses in the league.

 

Absolutely nothing about anything we've seen from him as a Bill says, "That guy is going to be an elite NFL QB," and that's what I think we need to win a Super Bowl. 

[wagon127]

How about how many players on offense were like WTF are we doing huddling right now? Including the announcers. The only people that seemed to think huddling and stopping there was the coaching staff and Josh Allen. I guess I don't know what Josh Allen was thinking, probably just following orders.

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

1 minute ago, jrober38 said:

 

I don't hate anyone. I dislike him and am critical of him because he's one of the worst starters in the league and our offense can't score points.

 

Tyrod Taylor was run out of town for posting better numbers than Allen has. If he wasn't good enough (he wasn't), why are people trying to tell me Allen is?

 

Allen is a severely flawed passer who hasn't had a really good game all season despite playing some of the worst defenses in the league.

 

Absolutely nothing about anything we've seen from him as a Bill says, "That guy is going to be an elite NFL QB," and that's what I think we need to win a Super Bowl. 

 

Cool; I just wanted to get you on record that you DISLIKE him (polite way of saying hate), and that you want him run out of town.  You have been marked; no coming back.

[eball]

1 hour ago, Thunderstruck said:

On this last attempt before the field goal- Beasley is clearly wide open at the stick and could easily get 10+ yards before getting out of bounds. This gives us time for a shot or two at the end zone (if they have faith to try that) and a much easier kick for the tie.

 

I would really like to know whether this is a case of

  a) Josh not seeing the open man

  b) The coaching staff having already pre-determined that the ball was going to be forced to Brown down the sideline

  c) An immature QB that knew Beas would be open there but decided to go for the glory anyway

  d) Other suggestions?

 

This play continues to bother me, because this is demonstrating a terrible pattern of behavior, either by our QB or our coaching staff (maybe both?)

 

 

 

Josh answered this question, I believe...said Brown was his #1 read and if you look at how quickly the play developed he really had no time to see Beasley if he was looking at Brown first because he was about to get crushed.

[jrober38]

7 minutes ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

Cool; I just wanted to get you on record that you DISLIKE him (polite way of saying hate), and that you want him run out of town.  You have been marked; no coming back.

 

Jeeze. 

 

Being critical of a QB who is near the bottom of the league in every passing category means I want to run them out of town?

 

I just want someone who can lead an offense and score points. So far Allen hasn't shown he can do that, and we should be looking for someone who can. 

Edited November 11, 2019 by jrober38

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

4 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Jeeze. 

 

Being critical of a QB who is near the bottom of the league in every passing category means I want to run them out of town?

 

I just want someone who can lead an offense and score points. So far Allen hasn't shown he can do that, and we should be looking for someone who can. 

 

Your opinion would have some more credibility to me if you countered your negativity with the positives in which you see (which are obviously none).  You don't offer constructive criticism, you offer biased hatred plain and simple because your narrative (as you stated for the record) is that you DISLIKE the kid.  

[london_bills]

I think

 

1. Allen is making a pre snap decision to go to brown. 

 

2. Allen is worried about taking sacks and fumbling the ball. 

3. Allen obviously he didn't see beasley. 

 

I cant imagine Daboll saying to go to this reciever only, could explain Allen's demeanor in his presser. 

 

There's something questionable about decision making that you are highlighting. I know it's easy with hindsight, I get that but it's almost the kind of play where Allen could do his signature spin and roll out opening up a bigger play. That would be him playing on instinct more. 

 

Edited November 11, 2019 by london_bills

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

47 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Sure.

 

That's why he should just look left, realize he needs 4 yards, and throw the 5 yard curl to the guy whose defender is playing 12 yards off the line of scrimmage.

 

Horrible awareness by Allen. 

 

Don't get me started on McDermott. That's the biggest play of the game. As soon as Singletary was tackled in bounds you call a timeout, put a plan in place and run the play that's going to get you 5 yards, then go clock it. If it's incomplete you kick the field goal. 

 

Not having the extra timeout was crucial, and singletary needs to get out of bounds.  Those are facts.  50+ is not an easy kick - but the guy can't make them at all.  That's a tad alarming since ya know... every other kicker has shown the ability to make them.  Even Vinateri has and he's like 50 years old.

 

The mis-read on the last play sucks... but he also read JB properly and got a boundary pass to the 15 yard line that should've been complete.  

15 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Jeeze. 

 

Being critical of a QB who is near the bottom of the league in every passing category means I want to run them out of town?

 

I just want someone who can lead an offense and score points. So far Allen hasn't shown he can do that, and we should be looking for someone who can. 

 

I thought he did a nice job at the end of both halves putting his team in position to score points.  

[NewEra]

2 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Coming into this season we all wanted Josh to improve his completion percentage, which he has.  We wanted him to improve going through his progressions.  I think if you watch objectively he has.  But what he still needs to work on is his pre-snap reads.  I think that throw was a pre-snap read, and his read was that he had Brown one on one.  The read probably should have been Beasley, assuming he read the blitz coming from the left side.

 

Reading NFL defenses isn't easy, but Josh has to improve there.

He also has to improve putting the ball on the money over 10 yards.  He drills some of them.  He needs to drill more

[london_bills]

57 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Sure.

 

That's why he should just look left, realize he needs 4 yards, and throw the 5 yard curl to the guy whose defender is playing 12 yards off the line of scrimmage.

 

Horrible awareness by Allen. 

 

Don't get me started on McDermott. That's the biggest play of the game. As soon as Singletary was tackled in bounds you call a timeout, put a plan in place and run the play that's going to get you 5 yards, then go clock it. If it's incomplete you kick the field goal. 

Awareness is exactly it. Awareness under pressure. 

[JDubya76]

I’m guessing if he doesn’t get the ball moving in the direction of Brown, by the time he comes back to Beasley there is defenders helmet in his jaw. Dawkins looked like a matador on that play, ole. The back shoulder was there to Brown,  by his own admission he missed the play.

 

now if Beasley is the first read on the play, Allen flat out blew it.

Edited November 11, 2019 by JDubya76

[Ned Flanders]

2 hours ago, Thunderstruck said:

This is my thought too, and granted that Dawkins whiffing on another block didn't help the matter any

That was the key here...JA couldn't go to his left because of the pressure on that side...it's obvious in the clip.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

43 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

I don't hate anyone. I dislike him and am critical of him because he's one of the worst starters in the league and our offense can't score points.

Tyrod Taylor was run out of town for posting better numbers than Allen has. If he wasn't good enough (he wasn't), why are people trying to tell me Allen is?

Allen is a severely flawed passer who hasn't had a really good game all season despite playing some of the worst defenses in the league.

Absolutely nothing about anything we've seen from him as a Bill says, "That guy is going to be an elite NFL QB," and that's what I think we need to win a Super Bowl. 

 

OK, I'll take this on.  "Taylor was run out of town for posting better numbers than Allen has"

 

This is incorrect on several fronts.  The primary front is that when Taylor joined the Bills, he was in his 5th year in the league who had been sitting in a pro QB room with some very good OC's and QB coaches.  He knew what the game was about; he knew how to prepare; he had every opportunity to learn how to read the D.  Even though he wasn't getting the starting reps, he knew the score and had the opportunity to "invest in himself" with VR systems and passing coaches. 

It was hoped that between his 1st and 2nd year as a starter, and his 2nd and 3rd year as a starter, he would take a step - learn to throw with anticipation, throw receivers open, step up into passing lanes, and make contested throws.  He did not.  In fact, he regressed from 217-202-187 ypg and in the 3rd year with Dennison, it was clear he was not going to develop into the pocket passer McDermott and Beane want.

 

Meanwhile, Allen is in his 2nd year as raw QB from a lower-tier program, who had bupkis for OL, WR, or rungame last year.  He has progressed (despite what some people say) in terms of his ability to hit the short/intermediate passing game, to move around in the pocket and make the throw, and to read the D and progress in his reads.  He is standing in and making throws where he would have bailed and run successfully last year.  This change shows in hard metrics such as significant increase in completion percentage, significant increase in YPG, and significant decrease in INT %, slight increase in YPA, and decrease in sack yardage lost and run yardage. 

 

Is Allen where he needs to be to be "The Man" for this franchise, Hell to the No.  But he's showing some progress.  If he ceases to show progress after his 3rd season, I have no doubt that the Bills will move on.

 

To recap: Tyrod was not "run out of town" for generating similar or better numbers to Allen.  The Bills moved on because after 3 years as a starter, it was clear he wasn't going to develop along the lines they wished.  If Allen is seen as plateauing short of what the Bills need as QB, he too will be gone.

 

But Allen will get a similar or greater amount of time as TT did to learn and develop because 1) Taylor had more time in the league before he got here, so should have started from a higher knowledge base 2) we invested a high 1st round pick in Allen, and those guys get more rope, it's just how it is.

 

And the Lieutenant has a point that when a guy can't seem to acknowledge anything good (and even our praise-chary HC can after a bad day), it does cast his overall judgement into some doubt.