JoshAllenHasBigHands Posted November 11, 2019 Posted November 11, 2019 1 minute ago, jrober38 said: Cover 0 means there's no safety help, yet I can only see 3 of the 4 DBs (assuming the corner at the bottom is on Brown). Where's the 4th DB if he's not providing safety help deep? 7 guys blitz, 2 on screen, one off screen covering Brown down the sideline. Where's the 11th man? Right, I knew there is no way you misunderstood the play call. Yeah, the 4th DB is off screen behind the other two. He starts deep, but on a cover-0 blitz the assumption is he will come down to get Beasley (or whoever his assignment is) in coverage. It doesn't work out that way, hence the screen shot above, but that is the reason JA looks right. Look, when the coverage says all your WRs are gonnna be 1-1, you go to your best WR. That is what Josh did. I just wish they would have audibled to a more makable pass. 2 minutes ago, TJC25 said: Please stop with the notion our oc is telling him to throw a ball to a receiver not open if josh came back to the sideline and told daboll i saw soft coverage on the left and hit Beasley for 20 so that was my read. Qbs make there decisions pre snap my guy stop saying a oc is telling josh where to throw a ball bills fans blame a oc for inept qb play. Please start using periods and commas. I literally have no idea what you are trying to say.
BillsFanSD Posted November 11, 2019 Posted November 11, 2019 Beasley might as well be triple-covered on that play. Allen is looking at Brown and is about 1/2 second away from being sacked. There is no possibility of looking across to the other side of the field, seeing Beasley, and getting him the ball. It is Brown-or-bust on this play. And honestly, having Brown one-on-one is a pretty good match-up. I would have liked to have seen a higher-percentage play, but I don't hate this one. 1
TJC25 Posted November 11, 2019 Posted November 11, 2019 2 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said: Right, I knew there is no way you misunderstood the play call. Yeah, the 4th DB is off screen behind the other two. He starts deep, but on a cover-0 blitz the assumption is he will come down to get Beasley (or whoever his assignment is) in coverage. It doesn't work out that way, hence the screen shot above, but that is the reason JA looks right. Look, when the coverage says all your WRs are gonnna be 1-1, you go to your best WR. That is what Josh did. I just wish they would have audibled to a more makable pass. Please start using periods and commas. I literally have no idea what you are trying to say. You are just making excuses for a bad play by the QB simple enough 2
Ramza86 Posted November 11, 2019 Posted November 11, 2019 Miss...he made the read presnap and then the pressure got to him immediately. He stuck with the throw. Obviously if he had just a little more time or experience he may have been able to wait or guess Beas would be open like that. Im not too beat up about the decision to throw it, would have just wanted better placement 1
Solomon Grundy Posted November 11, 2019 Posted November 11, 2019 56 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Coming into this season we all wanted Josh to improve his completion percentage, which he has. We wanted him to improve going through his progressions. I think if you watch objectively he has. But what he still needs to work on is his pre-snap reads. I think that throw was a pre-snap read, and his read was that he had Brown one on one. The read probably should have been Beasley, assuming he read the blitz coming from the left side. Reading NFL defenses isn't easy, but Josh has to improve there. He hasn't been able to read that blitz all season. Go back and watch previous games 1
Lieutenant Aldo Raine Posted November 11, 2019 Posted November 11, 2019 2 minutes ago, TJC25 said: You are just making excuses for a bad play by the QB simple enough Why do you hate your QB so much? 1
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted November 11, 2019 Posted November 11, 2019 35 minutes ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said: (D) Allen stated he saw cover 0 and was going to have a one on one match-up on Brown. Brown in his post game interview said he “got tapped for a go ball “. This tells me he and Allen had some sort of pre-snap communication. The concept is if Brown beats his guy put it in front of him; if not throw a back shoulder behind the WR. Allen threw back shoulder and supposedly Brown stated he misread the route meaning he wasn’t necessarily expecting the back shoulder. If you rewatch the tape, the back shoulder pass was there, just miscommunication for an easy completion. Perhaps Allen should have known Beasley would be open, but his mind was made up upon reading the coverage and was trying to recreate the same magic he captured in the Jets game in my opinion, No way of knowing whats going to happen pre-snap at the LOS. 9 guys lined up there and 3 to the left. Blitz will most definitely come from the right. Can't set pass pro, can't hard count. If the blitzer on the left drops into coverage you lose the beasley play and you are trying to buy time - which he wouldn't have had.
jrober38 Posted November 11, 2019 Posted November 11, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said: Right, I knew there is no way you misunderstood the play call. Yeah, the 4th DB is off screen behind the other two. He starts deep, but on a cover-0 blitz the assumption is he will come down to get Beasley (or whoever his assignment is) in coverage. It doesn't work out that way, hence the screen shot above, but that is the reason JA looks right. Look, when the coverage says all your WRs are gonnna be 1-1, you go to your best WR. That is what Josh did. I just wish they would have audibled to a more makable pass. Please start using periods and commas. I literally have no idea what you are trying to say. I just rewatched the play 4 times. In no way shape or form is it Cover 0. The Browns are in a hybrid shell. Man on the near side, zone in the middle and on the far side to keep everything in front. Denzel Ward is manned up against John Brown in press man coverage. That's obvious. On the other side, the CB is 12 yards off the line of scrimmage in a soft zone. He's on his heels, and is no no way going to be playing man coverage. He's already back peddling as the ball is snapped. The safety is 15 yards off the line of scrimmage and shifts over towards Beasley a little bit, and probably gets to about 12 yards when the ball is snapped. Both he and the corner both appear to be be bailing deep, to not let anything behind them. There's a linebacker or safety in the middle of the field who checks our TE, but appears to also be in a zone, or possible spy in case Allen escapes the pocket. It's a misread all the way by Allen. You need 4 yards, and the guys responsible for not letting Beasley get behind him is 12 yards off the line of scrimmage. Just brutal situational awareness to not take the easy check down. Edited November 11, 2019 by jrober38 1
Hebert19 Posted November 11, 2019 Posted November 11, 2019 If he had time maybe he goes thru progressions but if he felt the pressure off the edge he had to go to primary there.
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted November 11, 2019 Posted November 11, 2019 1 minute ago, Ramza86 said: Miss...he made the read presnap and then the pressure got to him immediately. He stuck with the throw. Obviously if he had just a little more time or experience he may have been able to wait or guess Beas would be open like that. Im not too beat up about the decision to throw it, would have just wanted better placement I like the placement, brown had almost half the field to work over there - he didn't look for the ball until it was too late.
DRA3196 Posted November 11, 2019 Posted November 11, 2019 If those are the options I have to roll with C and place an * next to it. Josh is not immature. He has been playing frustrated. He doesn't want to go for the 3 yard completion and the first down. He went for the kill shot and it failed. The one issue I have with the last drive was the confusion about huddle or no huddle. were we going for the tie or the win? hard to determine. I think this confusion led to instability and created a lack of confidence. Instead of knowing what they can do to succeed, they were hoping for something good to happen. Lack of preparation and execution killed our chances to score a TD.
Lieutenant Aldo Raine Posted November 11, 2019 Posted November 11, 2019 2 minutes ago, Ramza86 said: Miss...he made the read presnap and then the pressure got to him immediately. He stuck with the throw. Obviously if he had just a little more time or experience he may have been able to wait or guess Beas would be open like that. Im not too beat up about the decision to throw it, would have just wanted better placement If Brown turns around a half-second sooner, he catches that (according to Brown).
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted November 11, 2019 Posted November 11, 2019 Just now, jrober38 said: I just rewatched the play 4 times. In no way shape or form is it Cover 0. The Browns are in a hybrid shell. Denzel Ward is manned up against John Brown in press man coverage. On the other side, the CB is 12 yards off the line of scrimmage in a soft zone. He's on his heels, and is no no way going to be playing man coverage. The safety is 15 yards off the line of scrimmage and shifts over towards Beasley a little bit, and probably gets to about 12 yards when the ball is snapped. Both he and the corner both appear to be be bailing deep, to not let anything behind them. There's a linebacker or safety in the middle of the field who checks our TE, but appears to also be in a zone, or possible spy in case Allen escapes the pocket. It's a misread all the way by Allen. You need 4 yards, and the guys responsible for not letting Beasley get behind him is 12 yards off the line of scrimmage. Just brutal situational awareness to not take the easy check down. I see what you're saying but its hard to tell who's blitzing there - and if you guess wrong you could be screwed. The fact that the clock was running (McD burning a timeout on D, and singletary not getting OOB) makes it worse because you just have to make a gut call.
oldmanfan Posted November 11, 2019 Posted November 11, 2019 4 minutes ago, the skycap said: He hasn't been able to read that blitz all season. Go back and watch previous games Yes. Which is why I said it's an area he has to improve upon.
Solomon Grundy Posted November 11, 2019 Posted November 11, 2019 54 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said: It was never a decision. It was cover-0, meaning he got one read. He had Brown (his #1 WR) 1-1 on the outside running either a go or an option route, depending on whether he got a jump. The ball was always going to Brown, and the read was always on the right. These snap shots do nothing to help explain what happened on the play. Cover 0, cover 2, man to man, no matter what defense is called if they send a blitzer don't you throw to that side of field?
TJC25 Posted November 11, 2019 Posted November 11, 2019 4 minutes ago, dneveu said: No way of knowing whats going to happen pre-snap at the LOS. 9 guys lined up there and 3 to the left. Blitz will most definitely come from the right. Can't set pass pro, can't hard count. If the blitzer on the left drops into coverage you lose the beasley play and you are trying to buy time - which he wouldn't have had. The left side corner back moved up twice on the play showing he is rushing. It was a bad read by allen simple as that. The brown back shoulder was his throw no matter what the defense was in no awareness
Wayne Cubed Posted November 11, 2019 Posted November 11, 2019 The ball is going to Brown pre snap no matter what. This has been coached to JA, when you see Cover 0 and Brown, your #1 WR, is in tight man coverage, you throw the ball his way. If he beats his man you throw the ball over the top. If he doesn’t you throw back shoulder. The problem I have is they have run this play this season against Cover 0 and have had minimal success with it. Also, if you look at the bunch formation the secondary is playing off and you only need 4 yards, someone should be open on that sides. Why isn’t Josh being coached to read the defense a bit more. This is situational. While the Brown 1v1 is a nice look, it’s a low percentage play. And the bunch formation, just presnap, looks like a better look and higher percentage play seeing as you only need 4 yards. Also, re:Dawkins, JA sets the protections. Dawkins immediately blocks down inside, as if that was the protection. To me that reads as JA didn’t think the CB was blitzing and set the protection as such. Also history tells us he has a tough time diagnosing the CB blitz.
JoshAllenHasBigHands Posted November 11, 2019 Posted November 11, 2019 4 minutes ago, jrober38 said: I just rewatched the play 4 times. In no way shape or form is it Cover 0. The Browns are in a hybrid shell. Man on the near side, zone in the middle and on the far side to keep everything in front. Denzel Ward is manned up against John Brown in press man coverage. That's obvious. On the other side, the CB is 12 yards off the line of scrimmage in a soft zone. He's on his heels, and is no no way going to be playing man coverage. He's already back peddling as the ball is snapped. The safety is 15 yards off the line of scrimmage and shifts over towards Beasley a little bit, and probably gets to about 12 yards when the ball is snapped. Both he and the corner both appear to be be bailing deep, to not let anything behind them. There's a linebacker or safety in the middle of the field who checks our TE, but appears to also be in a zone, or possible spy in case Allen escapes the pocket. It's a misread all the way by Allen. You need 4 yards, and the guys responsible for not letting Beasley get behind him is 12 yards off the line of scrimmage. Just brutal situational awareness to not take the easy check down. No, it is definitely cover 0. 3 route runners, 3 defenders, no deep help. That is text-book cover 0. The confusion is the corner back. I honestly think he screwed up. Him backpedaling there makes zero sense and leaves Cole wide open, with the slot (Mackenzie) double covered. HOWEVER, reading the play from the beginning, it looks like it is going to be man coverage. JA cannot predict that the corner is going to inexplicably backpedal himself out of the play. 11 minutes ago, TJC25 said: You are just making excuses for a bad play by the QB simple enough Good comeback. You really got me. 1
JinxedBill Posted November 11, 2019 Posted November 11, 2019 1 hour ago, Steptide said: Could be that Browns defender to Allen's left that's about to tackle him This. The pressure forced Allen to get rid of it quickly. Imo he did the right thing to chuck it for hopefully a big play with someone bearing down on him
Wayne Cubed Posted November 11, 2019 Posted November 11, 2019 Just now, JoshAllenHasBigHands said: No, it is definitely cover 0. 3 route runners, 3 defenders, no deep help. That is text-book cover 0. The confusion is the corner back. I honestly think he screwed up. Him backpedaling there makes zero sense and leaves Cole wide open, with the slot (Mackenzie) double covered. HOWEVER, reading the play from the beginning, it looks like it is going to be man coverage. JA cannot predict that the corner is going to inexplicably backpedal himself out of the play. Yup cover 0, means no safety help in the middle of the field. 0 players deep.
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