Has the bills offense shown any improvement from week 1 until now?

[Chris66]

1 minute ago, John from Riverside said:

I was hoping to see it...frankly I think they were better earlier in the year.

Thats how it works. Raw qb looks good in beginning. Dc sees something it works so other dc's use it and will continue until it doesnt. Thats always been the chess match. Allen now has to get better. Its his move.

[ALLEN1QB]

Whenever I watch other football games like the 49 ers and seahawks last night makes me realize just how bad the Buffalo Bills are. We are playing peewee football folks. This team is a total joke. 

[reddogblitz]

42 minutes ago, Houston's #1 Bills Fan said:

Agreed. I feel like we should and can use Beasley should like NE uses Edelman. Same player. It's a travesty that we are wasting his talents.

 

When we signed Dabol and were told he was going to implement a NE style offense and then signed Beasley I thought he would be our Edelman.  Hit him with quick throws on the run.  maybe a pick thrown in for good measure.  Same goes for Brown.   I have seen none of that.  Looks more like the Nate Hackett throw it to guys standing still offense.  I don't understand it.

[Boatdrinks]

3 minutes ago, ALLEN1QB said:

Whenever I watch other football games like the 49 ers and seahawks last night makes me realize just how bad the Buffalo Bills are. We are playing peewee football folks. This team is a total joke. 

It was a contrast. Good teams won’t be tested by the Bills offense. 

[Don Otreply]

1 hour ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

Yes. That is why they are "trying" to accomplish it. 

look, we are 6-3, we all want the team to do well, and they can do well if the O side coaching and player execution gets and stays better. This sputtering half assed execution says important things about where this team is, and what it’s saying is maybe.... frustrating!

 

Go Bills!!!

[Augie]

16 hours ago, uticaclub said:

We are playing not to lose instead of playing to win and this is what happens 

 

When we pass 41 times to 14 handoffs, I don’t see that as “playing not to lose”. I also don’t see it as SMART against a team ranked 30th in run defense, but that’s another issue. 

[jrober38]

6 hours ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

Almost 38 points is really good. I guess we can quible about whether it is "prolific," but semantics are always a losing argument. 

 

There are 130 teams in college football.  The 19th ranked offense is more or less equivalent to the 4th best offense in the NFL.  (19/130 = appox. 4/32). 

 

The San Francisco 49ers are currently the 4th highest scoring offense in the NFL.

 

Is anyone calling them prolific? Obviously not.

 

The Greatest Show on Turf was prolific. 

 

The 16-0 Patriot's offense of 2007 was prolific.

 

The 2018 Chiefs were prolific.

 

In no way shape or form was the 2016 Wyoming Cowboys offense ever even for a moment considered prolific.

[SydneyBillsFan]

I think we peaked against the Giants. That was our only real complete offensive performance - if you can call it that.

 

Haven't played a decent game since.

[WideNine]

On 11/11/2019 at 5:33 AM, Steptide said:

This is the most frustrating thing for me. We're listening to the coaches say week after week how they have to get better and score more points. After last week, I kind of thought they were starting to figure it out using singletary more, but here we are again. I like that the bills wanna be a passing team, I don't want a run first offense, but there has to be a good balance. I'm really curious what the coaches are doing during the week to make the offense better. I have seen almost no difference between week 1 and week 10 when it comes to the offense 

 

There have been some individuals who have gotten better in areas, but as a whole unit they lack consistency.

 

Hausch sin dinero has not helped.

 

[Playoffs?]

No

[Thurman#1]

17 hours ago, jrober38 said:

 

Sigh.

 

Wyoming was 19th in total points and 47th in total yards in 2016. Whoop di freaking doo.

 

I think you'd struggle to find literally anyone but yourself who would describe the 2016 Wyoming Cowboys offense as being prolific.

 

You want to talk about camp? Yikes.

 

You want to go back to the 70s when 5 QBs threw for 3,000 yards and 6 QBs posted a QB Rating above 80? Yikes.

 

Maybe try keeping it in this millennium. The NFL has changed dramatically over the past 20 years. Only someone without a brain wouldn't know that. 

 

Keep going on. You brought nothing even remotely intelligent to the conversation. Keep living the 70s, 80s and 90s pretending that how football was played then and how QBs were developed in that period of the game has anything to do with how things have been done for the past 10-20 years. 

 

The Wyoming Cowboys offense was prolific? Maybe the stupidest thing I've ever read on a Buffalo Bills message board.

 

CONGRATS!!

 

 

Typical JRober. Realize it's been pointed out that you're wrong, and quick try to change the ground while never admitting it.

 

19th in total points in all of college football? Freaking Wyoming going 19th in Division 1, scoring 37.6 points a game?

 

As usual, you were wrong and now try to frame it in a way that makes sense and pretend you didn't make a mistake. Wrong on the face of it, and never willing to admit it.

 

You said he'd never been in a prolific offense. 19th out of 130 Division 1 schools is absolutely prolific. No real way to say it isn't. It was a stupid error.

 

Everyone makes dumb mistakes. The thing to do when you do so is to say, "Oops, made a mistake there, but ... " and then continue to try to make your argument, no matter how dumb an argument it is. That's how mature people handle the situation. But then there are the others who start in trying to prove that their dumb mistake is not a dumb mistake and bury themselves in stupid minutiae, self-contradictions and infinite backtracks and rationalizations. But that's the way you roll.

 

Just wanted to point this out for those who don't know you well.

 

 

9 hours ago, jrober38 said:

 

The San Francisco 49ers are currently the 4th highest scoring offense in the NFL.

 

Is anyone calling them prolific? Obviously not.

 

The Greatest Show on Turf was prolific. 

 

The 16-0 Patriot's offense of 2007 was prolific.

 

The 2018 Chiefs were prolific.

 

In no way shape or form was the 2016 Wyoming Cowboys offense ever even for a moment considered prolific.

 

 

You pile up stupid arguments like chipmunks pile up acorns. "Is anyone calling [the 49ers offense] prolific? Obviously not," you say. Great point, dude. But by the way ...

 

-----------------------------------------------

"Shanahan’s offense and playcalling is good enough to make up more than the difference and make the Niners one of the most prolific attacks in the NFL. "

 

https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/09/15/san-francisco-49ers-cincinnati-bengals-kyle-shanahan-jimmy-garoppolo-stats-video-highlights-nfl-twitter/

 

 

"With Kyle Shanahan calling the plays for Garoppolo, an offense featuring star tight end George Kittle and a talented cast of young skill-position players, San Francisco's attack should be prolific enough to keep the Niners in every game. "

 

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/nfl-training-camp-2019-nfc-west-preview/1k215frj9tj5s1ay0xcp0pj2g9

 

 

" Outside receivers Deebo Samuel, Marquise Goodwin, and Dante Pettis won’t have the Rams losing much sleep, but tight end George Kittle might already be the best in the game and is on pace for 90+ receptions. The big problem for the 49ers offense this week will be the absence of their two starting tackles, Joe Staley and Mike McGlinchey, as well as their super-fullback Kyle Juszczyk. That could make it difficult for the 49ers to get their backfield going, which might ultimately undo their so-far prolific offense.

"49ers' 21 personnel group among NFL's most prolific offenses"

https://ninerswire.usatoday.com/2019/07/11/49ers-21-personnel-group-among-nfls-most-prolific-offenses/

 

 

"OK, so no one actually forgot about Jimmy G. But his return should be one of the more heralded aspects of what’s on tap for San Francisco this upcoming season. And if he produces anywhere close to what the accepted level would be for him, the Niners offense should be oh-so prolific in 2019."

 

https://ninernoise.com/2019/05/21/49ers-5-reasons-excited-2019/6/

 

" Expect more of the same in the Monday nighter from the 49ers’ prolific attack."

 

https://www.thesportsgeek.com/nfl/browns-vs-49ers-mnf-pick-nfl-week-5/

 

" Sanders only built from there by posting the most prolific receiving performance this season for the 49ers four days later as he already has become Jimmy Garoppolo’s No. 1 outside target."

 

https://q13fox.com/2019/11/11/new-receivers-add-to-offenses-for-seahawks-49ers/

 

"The combination of a potentially prolific offense and a fierce pass rush is a great foundation for a playoff team. That’s precisely what the 49ers are betting on this year. "

 

https://www.oddschecker.com/us/picks-parlays/football/nfl/20190808-how-many-wins-will-the-49ers-get-in-2019

 

"Jimmy Garoppolo and the offense had little trouble carving Carolina's defense with 232 yards rushing and a pair of touchdown passes for San Francisco's most prolific offensive game since beating Detroit 55-17 on Dec. 19, 1993. "

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I've proved my point, so I'll stop there but there were plenty more using the "P" word. As usual, you're not just wrong, but obviously and startlingly wrong.

 

 

Prolific doesn't mean being in the top tenth of a percent or anything nonsensical like that. It just means to produce a lot. Which Wyoming did. 19th most of 130.

 

And as for nobody calling the Niners prolific I googled it and found many.

 

No, they're not called "prolific" as much as, say the Chiefs, though the Chiefs have scored fewer PPG than the 9ers. That makes the Niners offense, by definition, more prolific than the Chiefs offense so far this year. The reason people use that word for the Chiefs more than the 9ers is simple ... the Chiefs have been prolific for years and the Niners have only become consistently prolific this year. People are used to the Chiefs being prolific. They haven't caught up to the 9ers yet, but if the Niners keep being as prolific as they've been so far, people will use the word more than they do now. They see it's happening but aren't convinced yet. Yes, the team's identity is built around the defense. But there is no reasonable argument that the 9ers offense hasn't been prolific so far this year. They have.

 

Just as the Wyoming Cowboys were prolific the year they had better players around Allen.

 

 

Edited November 13, 2019 by Thurman#1

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

10 hours ago, jrober38 said:

 

The San Francisco 49ers are currently the 4th highest scoring offense in the NFL.

 

Is anyone calling them prolific? Obviously not.

 

The Greatest Show on Turf was prolific. 

 

The 16-0 Patriot's offense of 2007 was prolific.

 

The 2018 Chiefs were prolific.

 

In no way shape or form was the 2016 Wyoming Cowboys offense ever even for a moment considered prolific.

So I saw quibbling over the term prolific is a race to the bottom, and you decide to double down on the quibbling. Nice.

[RyanC883]

On 11/11/2019 at 10:36 AM, Stank_Nasty said:

i'm baffled by the lack of looks for Beasley on those short 3rd and 4th downs.... hasn't that been how he's made his hay in the NFL? its mind blowing he hasn't seen any looks there.

 

Daboll's plan is to "trick" everyone by not getting our best players (Beasley on short yardage) and Singletary the ball.  It's really inexcusable.   Need a new OC, and possible QB competition next year.  

[Tcali]

On 11/11/2019 at 5:33 AM, Steptide said:

This is the most frustrating thing for me. We're listening to the coaches say week after week how they have to get better and score more points. After last week, I kind of thought they were starting to figure it out using singletary more, but here we are again. I like that the bills wanna be a passing team, I don't want a run first offense, but there has to be a good balance. I'm really curious what the coaches are doing during the week to make the offense better. I have seen almost no difference between week 1 and week 10 when it comes to the offense 

none at all

[Ayjent]

On 11/12/2019 at 2:19 PM, reddogblitz said:

 

When we signed Dabol and were told he was going to implement a NE style offense and then signed Beasley I thought he would be our Edelman.  Hit him with quick throws on the run.  maybe a pick thrown in for good measure.  Same goes for Brown.   I have seen none of that.  Looks more like the Nate Hackett throw it to guys standing still offense.  I don't understand it.

To be fair Beasley lost the confidence of his QB dropping some easy ones early on and he doesn't seem to be targeted nearly as frequent anymore.  36 Targets in First 4 Games, 24 Targets in the Last 5 Games.  John Brown's targets haven't dipped and to be honest that is where Josh is looking to go when it matters with mixed results.

 

I think the Offense should look to get Singletary more involved in the passing game and not just as dump off outlet passes if they don't want to run as much.  Also, they need to get Knox more involved as well - let these young players develop and they present matchup problems more than Beasley and Brown do.

 

I just don't think Daboll is the right guy and I do think Josh is the right QB for this team even though I didn't like the pick when it was made in the draft.  He is good enough but Daboll isn't the right OC for him.  I think it would be problematic for more established QBs to succeed in his system as well.  It just isn't based on doing what works and is too focused on what the Defense is doing.  When people say they don't have an identity - they are right even though we know what Daboll's philosophy is - that's not an identity of what you do well that's just how you gameplan and call plays.  The really good Offenses do what they do well and Defenses grapple with how to stop, decent offenses do something well and have a few bread and butter ways to attack defenses, and bad Offenses struggle to do any one thing good enough consistently.  This is a "good" bad Offense because it falls into that last category but somehow manages to move the ball without a ton of three and outs - they have very little in the way of things that they do consistently well or establish even against bad teams.

 

Nothing seems to set anything else up and the Bills Offense doesn't really keep Defenses guessing.  The only thing that remotely falls into that category is the motion play in front of Allen that they run and shuttle pass into sometimes - and you know what?  It actually is one of the most successful things they do consistently. 

 

I really don't know why the screen game is almost non-existent on Offense and the Defense can't defend against them very well.  Teams are bringing pressure and 0 looks against Allen - and they are playing right into the strength of what the D is doing.  I suppose if they had any success with the deep passing game this would be less prevalent against the Bills, but until they do they are going to keep seeing it.  Also, some of the route combinations are just head scratchers and the short timing routes are not being utilized - some of it is likely on Allen not having confidence in the throw when they are called, but they're not even being run for stretches of games as far as I can tell.

Edited November 14, 2019 by Ayjent

[Da webster guy]

On 11/11/2019 at 8:45 AM, Do The Reich Thing said:

Coaches in the NFL are far to ego driven to change anything, which is why we haven’t seen any improvement. Daboll, just like McD, is shoving his coaching style right down our players throats no matter what. 

I agree that many are ego driven.  In interviews w Daboll he seems to be level headed and open-minded though, like more of a big brother to Josh.  Could be wrong.

 

Either way, we had massive turnover on offense from last year to this, and considering we are healthy, its time to see some evolution and more points.

[MJS]

They play a different opponent every week. Each opponent presents unique challenges. So it's tough to tell. They also put more and more film out there for opponents to dissect every week, so in theory it should be getting harder and harder each week. So who knows?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 11/11/2019 at 7:33 AM, Steptide said:

This is the most frustrating thing for me. We're listening to the coaches say week after week how they have to get better and score more points. After last week, I kind of thought they were starting to figure it out using singletary more, but here we are again. I like that the bills wanna be a passing team, I don't want a run first offense, but there has to be a good balance. I'm really curious what the coaches are doing during the week to make the offense better. I have seen almost no difference between week 1 and week 10 when it comes to the offense 

 

The major difference between week 1 and now has been

1) fewer miscues - INT off Beasleys' thigh, fumbled QB-center exchange (though there has been 1 other), dumbass back-foot cross body throws

2) fewer "training wheels" for Josh in the form of pre-snap motion to help him decode the coverage - NE kind of put a stop to that because they shift just before the snap, so it's actually counter productive.

 

On 11/11/2019 at 8:46 AM, Jobot said:

You could be right... but based on the talent on offense, I think it's unrealistic for a second year qb to carry the team.  Until Allen can read a defense in a split second and counter the offense play calling/routes, the team will struggle to put up a lot of points.  We don't have a Julio to just chuck the ball to, or an O-line that smacks the D off the snap.

 

I would imagine that learning curve is different for every qb that enters the league, and I would also imagine that at times Allen may get this right but team mistakes or opposing 'talented' defenses stymie what could have been.

 

This is really where I am....people don't want to hear it, or hear it as an excuse, but as far as I know all the QBs who have played well their 1st or 2nd years have had three of four things Josh has not had:

1) at least one really top-notch WR or TE - a guy with a wide catch radius who will hang on to anything that comes within reach and make contested catches.  7-11 guy.

2) a reasonably reliable running game featuring a back who was recently able to put up a >1000 yd season

3) an OL that is at least competent running a scheme that plays to their strengths
4) consistency in the offensive scheme - they are running a variation, at best, of the scheme run the previous year so the rest of the cast knows the terminology cold

 

 

[dakrider]

On 11/12/2019 at 6:46 PM, jrober38 said:

 

The San Francisco 49ers are currently the 4th highest scoring offense in the NFL.

 

Is anyone calling them prolific? Obviously not.

 

The Greatest Show on Turf was prolific. 

 

The 16-0 Patriot's offense of 2007 was prolific.

 

The 2018 Chiefs were prolific.

 

In no way shape or form was the 2016 Wyoming Cowboys offense ever even for a moment considered prolific.

 

In every way shape and form the 2016 Wyoming Cowboys offense was far and away better than every other year they've been with Coach Bohl in 6 years.  To the tune of nearly 2 touchdowns per game better than most of those years, including Allen's 2017 year.  2016 Allen had a NFL running back and NFL caliber receivers, his 2017 team had literally half as many rushing yards and high school caliber receivers.  Allen can play up to what the team around him is capable of.  

[Not at the table Karlos]

On 11/11/2019 at 8:55 AM, bmur66 said:

The Bills are not the Patriots. They are not good enough to do that. And its hard to find proof that they are trying to exploit matchups because I haven't seen it happen. IMO the Bills need to figure out what they are good at, master it and build upon it

This x100.