The Bills lack star power

[SirAndrew]

9 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

The scheme is poor, but the Bills skill position players are sub par. Brown and Beasley are all they have. The rest of their guys aren’t stars on any NFL team. 

I agree, and we do need help at receiver. However, beyond each teams top two receivers not many have stars, you just have depth guys. Quality depth guys at those positions can be found in the draft. That’s on Beane for not addressing the issue. 

[Boatdrinks]

1 minute ago, SirAndrew said:

I agree, and we do need help at receiver. However, beyond each teams top two receivers not many have stars, you just have depth guys. Quality depth guys at those positions can be found in the draft. That’s on Beane for not addressing the issue. 

It is, and hasn’t been adequately addressed to date. Some of that is directly on him. This unit could have Watkins and Smith -Schuster for example. That’s squarely on his shoulders. 

[Figster]

1 hour ago, Boatdrinks said:

It is, and hasn’t been adequately addressed to date. Some of that is directly on him. This unit could have Watkins and Smith -Schuster for example. That’s squarely on his shoulders. 

I don't put Zay Jones anywhere near elite, but sending him packing for a 5th is another example of a high draft choice tossed out the door like garbage.

 

Buffalo is not a better team without him IMO.

[Dablitzkrieg]

They appear to lack a QB.  I hate it, but it's true.  He is far too inaccurate.

[C.Biscuit97]

23 minutes ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

They appear to lack a QB.  I hate it, but it's true.  He is far too inaccurate.

I had doubts about Allen since college.  He’s done some good things but what I worry about is how many games has he ever dominated? He really didn’t dominate in college and he really hasn’t done it in the nfl.  He has flashes but most first round picks have flat out games where they dominated.  
 

as far as star power, we have our secondary but a bunch of nice guys who really aren’t stars.  John Brown has been awesome but he’s a compliment to a Star receiver.  I worry about Singletary ever truly being the guy. 

[dave mcbride]

8 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Polian was luckier in that he had a much better situation in which to begin a complete rebuild. The 1985 Bills had gone 2-14, leaving Polian with the #1 overall pick and a shot at Bruce Smith. McDermott's first pick was #10. The next year they'd only had four wins and they again had good.

 

More, Polian's first year as GM he came to a team that had drafted Jim Kelly two years before but lost him to the USFL. Being gifted with Jim Kelly is a seriously nice situation for a GM.

 

At the end of Polian's 3rd year, they had only three Pro Bowlers, and two of them were the guys mentioned above, Bruce and Jim. The third was Tasker. We haven't seen how many Pro Bowlers we'll see at the end of this regime's third year, but Tre looks like a sure thing and one or two more, particularly from the defense is certainly very possible.

 

In other words, you're looking at Polian's regime with the benefit of hindsight. This early he looked like he'd lucked into Kelly and Smith and not yet had anyone else except Tasker on STs. Looking back on the McDermott and Beane regime, there's no way to know what we'll think. It's way too early. It's simply not a fair comparison.

 

 

 

 

Polian also made his own luck by trading a boatload for the rights to Bennett, who was one of the best players in Bills history. Surprised he wasn't mentioned in the original post. 

[C.Biscuit97]

2 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Polian also made his own luck by trading a boatload for the rights to Bennett, who was one of the best players in Bills history. Surprised he wasn't mentioned in the original post. 

Polian was very overrated.  He inherited Kelly and the number 1 pick.  He then got multiple top 5 picks at Carolina and Peyton Manning in Indy.  He picked his spots well.

 

and his comments about Lamar Jackson pre draft made him look like a foolish old man.  

[Figster]

9 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Polian also made his own luck by trading a boatload for the rights to Bennett, who was one of the best players in Bills history. Surprised he wasn't mentioned in the original post. 

Big fan of Biscuit,

 

thanks for reminding me.

[billsfan714]

8 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Polian was very overrated.  He inherited Kelly and the number 1 pick.  He then got multiple top 5 picks at Carolina and Peyton Manning in Indy.  He picked his spots well.

 

and his comments about Lamar Jackson pre draft made him look like a foolish old man.  

Polian was great and took 3 different teams to 7 superbowls and was voted NFL executive of the year 6 times.   He has since said he was wrong about Jackson which about half this board could never admit.

 

Levy was overrated.

Edited November 11, 2019 by billsfan714

[Figster]

 

8 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Polian was very overrated.  He inherited Kelly and the number 1 pick.  He then got multiple top 5 picks at Carolina and Peyton Manning in Indy.  He picked his spots well.

 

and his comments about Lamar Jackson pre draft made him look like a foolish old man.  

Jackson would make a good RB.

 

I'm just saying...

[dave mcbride]

19 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Polian was very overrated.  He inherited Kelly and the number 1 pick.  He then got multiple top 5 picks at Carolina and Peyton Manning in Indy.  He picked his spots well.

 

and his comments about Lamar Jackson pre draft made him look like a foolish old man.  

He didn't inherit Kelly at all. Kelly had zero intention of ever playing for the Bills, and most thought he'd never end up playing in a Bills uniform. Polian willed that to happen despite all of the recommendations that he trade him. The view at the time was that this was Tom Cousineau all over again. Polian also never inherited a #1 pick for the Bills. The Bills first pick in his tenure was Ronnie Harmon at the 16th slot. 

 

People forget how good Bennett was. His 1988 season is one of the best seasons by any player in Bills history, and that was a team that got off to an 11-1 start. He had a phenomenal career and is a classic example of why it's OK to surrender draft capital if the player you're going after is a generational talent. 

 

 In his first draft for the Bills, he took Ronnie Harmon and Will Wolford in the back half of the first round. Wolford is the best o-lineman in Bills history (in my opinion; I know Joe D was terrific, but he was a guard, not an LT), and it's easy to forget that Harmon had a very good career (582 receptions as a RB).  He also signed Kent Hull from the USFL before the 1986 season. Hull is the best center in team history. In 1987, he took Conlan in the first, Nate Odomes in the second, and House Ballard in the 11th. All were great players. He also got Keith McKeller in the 9th round, and McKeller is the most talented TE they've had since they joined the NFL era (he was just injured too much).  In 1988, he took Thomas in the second, Jeff Wright in the 8th, and Carlton Bailey in the 9th. One was great, and the other two were fantastic picks for their pick slots. Basically, he built a great team. 

 

He has not looked good lately, of course. The times have passed him by , but bear in mind that he's pretty old (76). His Jackson comments were ridiculous, although he did say last week that he was completely wrong about him. 

Edited November 11, 2019 by dave mcbride

[C.Biscuit97]

33 minutes ago, billsfan714 said:

Polian was great and took 3 different teams to 7 superbowls and was voted NFL executive of the year 6 times.   He has since said he was wrong about Jackson which about half this board could never admit.

 

Levy was overrated.

What was the other team he took to the SB? He went with us and the Colts.  And he built a one person team in INdy.  
 

I love Marv but I do agree he was overrated. 

[Figster]

11 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

What was the other team he took to the SB? He went with us and the Colts.  And he built a one person team in INdy.  
 

I love Marv but I do agree he was overrated. 

I think he might be referring to the Panthers which came up one game short of the Superbowl. ( NFC Campionship)

[DCbillsfan]

8 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

We lack a QB who can consistently finish drives.

This.  There were plays to be made and Allen did not get the ball where it needed to be enough.  Motor should have had more than 8 carries too.

[C.Biscuit97]

1 hour ago, Figster said:

 

Jackson would make a good RB.

 

I'm just saying...

Pretty sad that our qb is getting out passed by a rb. ?

[mjohns85]

14 hours ago, Phil The Thrill said:

this is especially true on offense.

Agreed.

 

I feel that we are headed in the right direction and our plan is to make a playoff/Super Bowl push next year, by acquiring elite talent on both sides of the ball. 
 

I do not believe our front office and coaching staff were planning on making a run this year, due to the lack of talent. 
 

We have exceeded expectations so far, which is great, but realistically this isn’t a year for us to truly compete for a playoff spot. 
 

I do feel good about us heading forward but not going to be upset with whatever place we finish. 
 

Rome wasn’t built overnight, just have to continue to trust the process...

[dakrider]

5 hours ago, Trogdor said:

 A lot of Allen's throws lack the timing that makes YAC possible. Beasley seems to do ok, but it's very Tyrod like in how it's a completion, but without the possibility of more.

 There were several passes that were right on the money and most the time they were still tackled right after the catch.  There were some plays too the receivers, Roberts on a couple, had almost no separation from their defender.  Allen missed a few throws too.  The offense in general was very average and not converting the two 4th down plays had an impact as well. 

[SoCal Deek]

Dak was throwing to Amari Cooper and Randall Cobb last night.  Neither of them were drafted by the Cowboys.  The same could be said for the Patriots, Rams and Chiefs. Even the Bills have a free agent receiving corp. The draft is not the answer to everything.  That's why the salary cap is far greater than what you get with 53 rookie contracts!

[Best Player Available]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

He didn't inherit Kelly at all. Kelly had zero intention of ever playing for the Bills, and most thought he'd never end up playing in a Bills uniform. Polian willed that to happen despite all of the recommendations that he trade him. The view at the time was that this was Tom Cousineau all over again. Polian also never inherited a #1 pick for the Bills. The Bills first pick in his tenure was Ronnie Harmon at the 16th slot. 

 

People forget how good Bennett was. His 1988 season is one of the best seasons by any player in Bills history, and that was a team that got off to an 11-1 start. He had a phenomenal career and is a classic example of why it's OK to surrender draft capital if the player you're going after is a generational talent. 

 

 In his first draft for the Bills, he took Ronnie Harmon and Will Wolford in the back half of the first round. Wolford is the best o-lineman in Bills history (in my opinion; I know Joe D was terrific, but he was a guard, not an LT), and it's easy to forget that Harmon had a very good career (582 receptions as a RB).  He also signed Kent Hull from the USFL before the 1986 season. Hull is the best center in team history. In 1987, he took Conlan in the first, Nate Odomes in the second, and House Ballard in the 11th. All were great players. He also got Keith McKeller in the 9th round, and McKeller is the most talented TE they've had since they joined the NFL era (he was just injured too much).  In 1988, he took Thomas in the second, Jeff Wright in the 8th, and Carlton Bailey in the 9th. One was great, and the other two were fantastic picks for their pick slots. Basically, he built a great team. 

 

He has not looked good lately, of course. The times have passed him by , but bear in mind that he's pretty old (76). His Jackson comments were ridiculous, although he did say last week that he was completely wrong about him. 

Thanks for this post. And the historical accuracy. Without Polian none of the Bills success ever would have happened.....

Edited November 11, 2019 by Best Player Available

[All_Pro_Bills]

20 hours ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

You lost me at the bold highlighted.

 

I don't buy star power is the largest problem.  I think the team lacks an offensive and defensive game plan that makes sense for who the players are, is robust when all doesn't go exactly to plan, and play calls are competently made.  McD and staff are the largest problem.

I think you're spot on with the game plan but doesn't that point to a lack of "star power" with the OC and DC?  And maybe the HC?  If you had to build a team 5 strings deep and also choosing a head coach, offensive coordinator, and defensive coordinator 5 deep how many Bills players and coaches would you pick?  Not our HC, OC, or DC.  As for players?  On defense Tre White for sure, maybe Poyer or Hyde but I'd be pressed to pick anyone else.  But on offensive?  Nobody.  

 

Week to week I find the Bills offensive game plan to be unimaginative, completely transparent, and absolutely boring to watch when compared to what other teams are doing with their offenses.  I expect I could take 5 or 10 frequent contributors to the board and devise a better game plan than Daboll comes up with week to week.  I like Allen a lot and he's improved but that improvement just doesn't seem to translate into more production, yards and points.  So looking at coaching does Daboll show he has the creativity and ability to put together an offense that matches the specific strengths of his players?  I'm not seeing it.  

 

As for defense I'm seeing regression at all three levels especially the run defense.  What has Frasier done to correct or adjust anything?  Nothing I'm much.  They did nothing to cover up Wallace's bad showing on Sunday and just stood their while the Browns marched down the field to take the lead.   I'm dreading Thanksgiving as I expect the Cowboys to physically push the Bills defense down the field and run all over them.  Our only Nationally televised game no less!  Add this to how the Bills rarely show up to play in a big spot and this could be an embarrassing disaster.  My advice, eat your turkey dinner early because you're going to lose your appetite later.

 

Why not throw in Beane here too.  The last two drafts have been good but how many of these guys do you project as pro bowl level player potential at this point?  Hopefully a few.  But he gets high marks for resolving the cap issues and sticking to his financial plan.  But at the trade deadline he didn't pull the trigger on any moves citing the cost which to me shows he doesn't have any conviction the team has potential to make some noise in the playoffs. 

 

On another note, after watching last nights SF/SEA game I realized how superior the rosters of the top teams in the league are compared to the Bills.  The 49ers have stacked a series of top 5 picks over the years and Seattle just seems to find a way to keep their roster stocked with good players.  And NE?  We all know about them.  We're a top 5 defense?   Does anyone really still believe that?

 

 

Edited November 12, 2019 by All_Pro_Bills