A Few Thoughts about the Browns Game, In no particular order

[Reed83HOF]

2 hours ago, HalftimeAdjustment said:

 

Ok, so let's assume this is accurate and Allen made the right decision based on the playbook.

 

Daboll should draw up a higher percentage play for this scenario which the team is more likely to execute on, based on the players he has. This play appears to be unlikely to hit and will result in a low 3rd down %age as teams try to force us to make this.

I'm not defending the call btw and I am not a fan of it - it wasn't a play based on the playbook though; once the D showed Cover O the offense is basically required to run this play - it is an automatic check in the offense and we have no Idea if Allen is able to check out of it or not. This is also a play that was used in the past in 3 and mid to short and the results are horrendous IMO. Again not defending this call at all...

 

Edit: Here is the stat:
 

20 minutes ago, GG said:

 

What gives you confidence that he will get better?  He's in his 2nd season, and I haven't seen much improvement in the key areas, such as throwing with anticipation and reacting properly to any pressure.  These are the critical aspects of good NFL QB play, but he's still late with his throws and bails to the run too fast.

 

We can talk all we want about our OC and playmaker deficiencies, but the bottom line remains that Allen is too easily schemed by the opponents.  He faced a lot of 8-man fronts and still hasn't found a way to consistently beat those.  His style puts added pressure on the OL and while it's a valid question to why Daboll is trying to run a timing offense with Josh, the flipside is that letting Josh be Josh would be an utter disaster over a course of an entire game and season.  The guy needs to show that he's elevating his game.

 

 

Edited November 11, 2019 by Reed83HOF

[thebandit27]

17 minutes ago, GG said:

 

What gives you confidence that he will get better?  He's in his 2nd season, and I haven't seen much improvement in the key areas, such as throwing with anticipation and reacting properly to any pressure.  These are the critical aspects of good NFL QB play, but he's still late with his throws and bails to the run too fast.

 

We can talk all we want about our OC and playmaker deficiencies, but the bottom line remains that Allen is too easily schemed by the opponents.  He faced a lot of 8-man fronts and still hasn't found a way to consistently beat those.  His style puts added pressure on the OL and while it's a valid question to why Daboll is trying to run a timing offense with Josh, the flipside is that letting Josh be Josh would be an utter disaster over a course of an entire game and season.  The guy needs to show that he's elevating his game.

 

Strongly disagree that he's shown no improvement in those areas.

 

There's a gigantic chasm between no improvement and some-improvement-but-not-there-yet.

[GG]

3 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

I'm not defending the call btw and I am not a fan of it - it wasn't a play based on the playbook though; once the D showed Cover O the offense is basically required to run this play - it is an automatic check in the offense and we have no Idea if Allen is able to check out of it or not. This is also a play that was used in the past in 3 and mid to short and the results are horrendous IMO. Again not defending this call at all...

 

 

 

What is that chart supposed to show. that Allen is better than Tyrod Or Orton?  

[GG]

5 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Strongly disagree that he's shown no improvement in those areas.

 

There's a gigantic chasm between no improvement and some-improvement-but-not-there-yet.

 

If you're measuring improvement from his first NFL game to now, then yes, there's improvement.  If you're measuring improvement from game one this year to game 9 this year, then there's very little improvement, with the same persistent issues.   

 

I'd like to see examples of other QBs for whom the light suddenly turned on is season 3, but at this point there are a lot more parallels to Tebow & Young then there are to guys who went on to have good & long careers.

[Reed83HOF]

1 minute ago, GG said:

 

What is that chart supposed to show. that Allen is better than Tyrod Or Orton?  

Nope, it is supposed to show that they are all more or less the same when it comes to passing (along with the overall WL record). Allen's biggest threat at the end of last season was his running, which he has done a lot less of this year. 15 games into their Bills careers Fitzy is the best one stat-wise. Granted there are those who say that you need 3 full years to analyze a QB, but once these QBs hit around a seasons worth of playing, their improvements leveled off and that is where the next thought comes in.

 

I give you that Allen is the youngest, but over the last few weeks his improvement has plateaued and that is concerning. Can he continue to develop and start growing again this season? How much of it is Allen hitting a ceiling that is much lower than was hoped for? How much of it is Daboll not tailoring an offense around Allen's skillset, which is quite different than Brady?

[GG]

2 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

Nope, it is supposed to show that they are all more or less the same when it comes to passing (along with the overall WL record). Allen's biggest threat at the end of last season was his running, which he has done a lot less of this year. 15 games into their Bills careers Fitzy is the best one stat-wise. Granted there are those who say that you need 3 full years to analyze a QB, but once these QBs hit around a seasons worth of playing, their improvements leveled off and that is where the next thought comes in.

 

I give you that Allen is the youngest, but over the last few weeks his improvement has plateaued and that is concerning. Can he continue to develop and start growing again this season? How much of it is Allen hitting a ceiling that is much lower than was hoped for? How much of it is Daboll not tailoring an offense around Allen's skillset, which is quite different than Brady?

 

I don't focus on the high profile plays that are dissected, but on the run of the mill mid-game plays where his weaknesses are clear.   Daboll dials up a lot of great calls that a good QB would make with ease.  For whatever reason Allen doesn't trust throws over the middle, doesn't hit the well-designed crossing patterns, and is generally too late to recognize open receivers allowing coverage to close in.   He has not improved at all in these phases this year.  That's troubling.

[Reed83HOF]

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

100% agree, specifically to your last point. 

 

These guys don’t seem to value the WR position. It’s John Brown and a bunch of average to bad WRs. 

We have a WR2 and a slot WR and that is it

[thebandit27]

2 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

I’m still astounded they didn’t draft ONE WR this year. Not one. 

 

There will be no excuse for a repeat performance in the 2020 draft.

 

It's absolutely loaded at WR.

[Reed83HOF]

Just now, ScottLaw said:

I’m still astounded they didn’t draft ONE WR this year. Not one. 

They were kicking the can to this year to a WR heavy draft is what my thought is. 

 

I don't necessarily want to go through a OC change with a developing QB, but this is just not working out. I get trying to develop Allen and work through his weaknesses - minimize INTs, take higher percentage throws, run a bit less etc; but what I am not seeing is us starting to open the offense back up to the types of plays he is successful with - now we are running an offense that our QB is not able to run with his skillset. This is what draws you back to other HC/OC/QB combos here, running schemes that don't fit your players. Roman, Lynn and Chan are the only 3 off the top of my head 

[Virgil]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

I only realized this morning we didn't run a single jet sweep to McKenzie yesterday. That has been successful all year and the Browns LBs are terrible. Why wasn't that in the game plan? I would have preferred that on 3rd and short over a deep shot to Beasley.

I think he ran it once 

[Reed83HOF]

 

[Virgil]

20 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

Nope, it is supposed to show that they are all more or less the same when it comes to passing (along with the overall WL record). Allen's biggest threat at the end of last season was his running, which he has done a lot less of this year. 15 games into their Bills careers Fitzy is the best one stat-wise. Granted there are those who say that you need 3 full years to analyze a QB, but once these QBs hit around a seasons worth of playing, their improvements leveled off and that is where the next thought comes in.

 

I give you that Allen is the youngest, but over the last few weeks his improvement has plateaued and that is concerning. Can he continue to develop and start growing again this season? How much of it is Allen hitting a ceiling that is much lower than was hoped for? How much of it is Daboll not tailoring an offense around Allen's skillset, which is quite different than Brady?

I’m not saying Allen is Tyrod, but it brings up old feelings.   After the Seattle game, I really thought Tyrod figured it out and was going to be the guy.  He had all the tools, but was too timid to throw guys open or deep.  That’s what made Allen so refreshing in his first year, doing those things.   When Tyrod went to Cleveland and did the same things, it just confirmed that’s who is.  
 

Allen seems to have plateaued the past few weeks and lost whatever spark he had last year.  I see it at the beginning of the year in 4th quarters and I see it on 1st and long, but that’s it.  
 

Either something happened, coaches are holding him back, or this is it for him.  
 

I don’t want to believe the third one but the thought is in there

[Reed83HOF]

 

[eball]

Let's face it, guys...as much as we want to complain about play calling and not getting the ball to Singletary and not hitting deep throws and yada-yada-yada the bottom line is that if our FG kicker hits those kicks we're enjoying a W and moving on to Miami.  This is the NFL and close games are what you get unless you've got a dynamic offense.  The Bills don't have a dynamic offense and we all knew that; it's not going to change this season.  There is still a very reachable path to 10-11 wins and a playoff berth and I'll be very satisfied with that.  I'm looking to the offseason and acquiring some more players who can make a difference on offense.  Josh Allen has progressed this season -- it is undeniable.  There is still a ways to go but the guy is learning to protect the football (mostly) and should only continue to improve.  No chicken little here -- it's very likely we're at 8-3 headed to Dallas in a couple of weeks.

[Virgil]

1 minute ago, Reed83HOF said:

 

Singletary’s YPA under center is surprising, but the frequency doesn’t.  Unless I’m reading it wrong, it supports how predictable Dabolls playcalling is 

[Reed83HOF]

Just now, Virgil said:

I’m not saying Allen is Tyrod, but it brings up old feelings.   After the Seattle game, I really thought Tyrod figured it out and was going to be the guy.  He had all the tools, but was too timid to throw guys open or deep.  That’s what made Allen so refreshing in his first year, doing those things.   When Tyrod went to Cleveland and did the same things, it just confirmed that’s who is.  
 

Allen seems to have plateaued the past few weeks and lost whatever spark he had last year.  I see it at the beginning of the year in 4th quarters and I see it on 1st and long, but that’s it.  
 

Either something happened, coaches are holding him back, or this is it for him.  
 

I don’t want to believe the third one but the thought is in there

That's where I go back to the coaching and play calling. It almost reeks of the be aggressive but don't turn the ball over via INT and coaching him into not making the throws he would make last year. It's telling Farve to not take chances, so yeah you take away the INT's but you take away the essence as to who that QB is. Honestly if your coaching style and identity is to do that, you drafted the wrong QB in the first place...

[Bing Bong]

You're supposed to go deep against cover 0. Punish them with a post or fade route. Basically what JA went for. At that point it just needs to be good route running and a good throw.

 

Looks like the Browns screwed up letting that guy open. But he really isn't supposed to be open at all in man coverage. JA doesn't have time to look at people he thinks will be covered pre-snap.

 

Also Dawson Knox needs to be max protect. Holy h*** we're blocking 5 against 8 of course JA doesn't have time. Really just looks like an ugly play on both sides all around. I'd just say either Daboll or JA need to do better pre-snap against this look.

Edited November 11, 2019 by BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P

[Virgil]

3 minutes ago, eball said:

Let's face it, guys...as much as we want to complain about play calling and not getting the ball to Singletary and not hitting deep throws and yada-yada-yada the bottom line is that if our FG kicker hits those kicks we're enjoying a W and moving on to Miami.  This is the NFL and close games are what you get unless you've got a dynamic offense.  The Bills don't have a dynamic offense and we all knew that; it's not going to change this season.  There is still a very reachable path to 10-11 wins and a playoff berth and I'll be very satisfied with that.  I'm looking to the offseason and acquiring some more players who can make a difference on offense.  Josh Allen has progressed this season -- it is undeniable.  There is still a ways to go but the guy is learning to protect the football (mostly) and should only continue to improve.  No chicken little here -- it's very likely we're at 8-3 headed to Dallas in a couple of weeks.

I don’t think many of us are talking about the Browns anymore.  You’re right about the kicking, but most of us are more worried about what this team is and what things are like going forward.   
 

Is this all we can expect from Allen and Daboll going forward?

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Let me simplify the game as I saw it ... 

 

We sucked, we didn't suck, we sucked, we didn't suck, we sucked, we didn't suck, we sucked!!! 

   

[Wayne Cubed]

2 minutes ago, BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P said:

You're supposed to go deep against cover 0. Punish them with a post or fade route. Basically what JA went for. At that point it just needs to be good route running and a good throw.

 

Looks like the Browns screwed up letting that guy open. But he really isn't supposed to be open at all in man coverage. JA doesn't have time to look at people he thinks will be covered pre-snap.

 

Also Dawson Knox needs to be max protect. Holy h*** we're blocking 5 against 8 of course JA doesn't have time. Really just looks like an ugly play on both sides all around.

While I agree, against the Cover 0 you should punish them with the deep ball, the routes need to be going to the middle of the field where there is no safety help. Going for a fade up the sideline, the sideline works as another defender.