A Few Thoughts about the Browns Game, In no particular order

[BringBackOrton]

6 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Does he? I posted this is in another thread but imagine OBJ was never traded and Mayfield's #1 and #2 receivers were Landry and Higgins, Njoku led the league in dropped passes, and Chubb got just 8 carries on the day. That's effectively our offense.

That’s 2018 and Mayfield looked really good last year.

[ganesh]

8 hours ago, dayman said:

A few thoughts about your thoughts, in the order in which you presented them (which of course, was not particular order to begin with):

 

1. Agreed. Josh was bad today. Not his worst game of the season but not good at all. 

 

2. IMO it' more execution. Daboll isn't perfect and there are a few head scratches as there is with any play-caller but he gets guys open and there is opportunity. Josh is making him look bad. 

Disagree.  Josh was forced to throw into tight coverage many times and against good CB like Ward that was always going to be difficult unless you are Brady/Edelman. 

Daboll's decision to not involve Singletary in the run game was terrible play calling, not execution.

 

8 hours ago, dayman said:

 

 

[billsfan_34]

5 hours ago, Da webster guy said:

Had 4 in the patriots game alone.

Four flags.  One guy.

Yeah- I remember that yet he dresses every week.

[BuffaloBud]

10 hours ago, Virgil said:

It's hard sometimes to write these and not let my thoughts on the overall player or season creep in.  The purpose, as stated in the title, is to talk about the game as it was played, recognizing that things change from week to week in the NFL.  The other thoughts, and I assure you I have plenty of them, I think I'm going to put into another thread.  With that being said....

 

1 - People talk about passing yards as a stat like they are the golden key to quarterback success in the league.  By that logic, Allen had a career day today as he through for a career high in yards while adding two rushing touchdowns.  However, Allen had an off day and, in my opinion, his least accurate day of the season.  Granted, some players didn't help Allen out with drops, but he also was throwing at players bodies or behind them on catches that were made as well.  Allen, like the rest of the offense, never seemed to get into a good rhythm today.  When they seemed like they might get something going, they'd hit a brick wall in regards to some of the play calling.  His arm was on display as he made some great 10+ yard passes that were on a rope.  He did fumble again, but I'm not going to hold that against him unless he loses it.  Allen's deep ball is also something that still hasn't come back to him, which is a major frustration point for many, especially since he's proven capable of this in the previous season.  Two of his deep balls seemed like prayers to me, but Allen missed a wide open McKenzie that would have absolutely been a touchdown.  As for the final throw on 3rd and 4, I'd love to know if that was Allen calling that play or Daboll. 

 

2 - Either the play calling is bad or the execution.  As the game goes on, if the execution isn't there, then it's the coordinators job to adjust to what's working for his players.  Today, that was the deep ball on 3rd and short.  I remember at least three times where we took deep shots on 3rd and 4 or less, most importantly at the end of the game.  Why that play was called when the offense showed zero ability to execute that type of play all game and season is beyond me.  More so, on multiple plays with less than 5 yards to go, I didn't see Beasley, Singletary, or Knox running any form of shallow or crossing routes.  There's been talk of Daboll trying to be too smart or cute on certain plays, but it seemed like the Bills didn't call plays that either matched their situation nor success rate this game.

 

3 - This thought fits somewhere into the first two, but I'm not sure where to put it.  In previous years, if the Bills were so much as in a 1st and 15, they might as well have brought out the punt team.  In this offense, the team shows up at their best in those situations.  On 1st and 25, Allen made two great throws to get us to 3rd and 4.  Then, we take a deep shot, miss it, and punt the ball.  This series is a perfect microcosm of our offense today.  The talent and ability is there, the execution and rhythm to keep it going is not.  Our quarterback is a gunslinger.  Our primary receiver is a burner.  Our second receiver is a possession guy who works himself into space.  Our halfback has one of the best averages per touch in the league.  We didn't play to our strengths enough to get or maintain any of those skills.

 

4 - “I’ve been this close and I ain’t stoppin’ and neither should you. This is a road block. You got two choices. It can drive you to be better or you can sit here and sulk. I want guys in our program that get hungry.” 

 

5 - I don't like to look at the box score after a game.  I like to write what I saw, let one of you correct me, then fix it.  For this game I had to look and I couldn't believe that Singletary only had 8 carries.  He had more passes thrown his way, but 8 carries?  I don't know their rank, but I'm pretty sure the Browns are one of the worst teams against the rush in the league and Singletary showed some good moves today.  Not giving him the ball more was a sin against football, especially after the week he had against the Redskins last week.  Like I said with points 2 and 3, we failed to utilize one of our better weapons today.  Also, Oliver's name wasn't anywhere on the box score.

 

6 - Tre played a hell of a game today for a guy who was asked to do a lot.  It would be easy to look at OBJ's numbers this season and say that Tre did what everyone else did.  Today was different because the Browns were doing everything in their power to get OBJ involved.  I'm not sure how many targets he had, but he only caught 4 of them I think.  Tre made a smart penalty in the end zone, because he got beat, but overall shut him down.  I think the longest catch OBJ had was when the Bills swapped to zone and Tre wasn't within 15 yards of him.  I've been a big Milano fan, who also showed off some good stuff today, but Tre is now my MVP for the season and definitely this game.

 

7 - Regardless of the outcome of the game and what you think about the overall unit, that goal line stand of 8 consecutive plays were the Browns couldn't get a positive yard was amazing.  The Browns tried every type of play they had for that situation and the Bills shut down all of them.  I'd be curious to know if there's a record for plays in situations like that as I'd like to think the Bills had it or were close.  Great job of shutting them down today in those situations, even if they did give one up at the end.  I don't blame Wallace on that TD as he was left on an island where only he and the receiver were on that side of the end zone.  With that much time, the receiver usually gets open.

 

8 - If Darnold saw ghosts against the Patriots, Mayfield has been living in the Poltergeist house this season.  I've seen many games where he takes off from the pocket too early or sees a blitz that isn't there, forcing early throws.  Safety aside, great job by Edmunds, Mayfield had very little pressure on him.  In the beginning of the game, he was taking 10-12 step drops to give himself space.  As the game went one, he was able to sit in the pocket fairly clean.  Our front 4 didn't generate much of a pass rush today against an offensive line that's been shaky at best.  I'm sure McD will call it gap execution, but they also were opening up holes.  We did miss some tackles again today, one really bad by Edmunds, but this highly paid defensive line had another poor showing today.  If you want to know what a solid pass rush looks like, simply watch Miles Garrett in this game. He blew up double team blocks and came up big in crucial times.

 

9 - I really hope this is the Bojo we will see for the rest of the season.  He's been crushing punts lately and really helped in the field position game today.  Genuinely impressed with the kid who I thought wouldn't last this long on the team.  I've heard rumor that his hold on the last field goal wasn't great as the laces were pointing west, but I don't know how much stock I put into that.  Hausch was a killer today.  I'm more upset about the missed field goal before half than I am at the end of the game.  I can't remember an NFL season that's had more kicker turnover within the active season than the current one, nor do I think Hausch should be cut because there isn't a clear successor available.   What's more interesting to me about our kicking game is that the McD didn't give him changes early in the game for long kicks.  From what I'm told, wind and field conditions weren't issues.  It felt like the confidence in Hausch wasn't there early and that was justified later in the game.  You never want to blame a game on the kicker, but on a team that struggles to put up 20+ points, we have to get more from him.

 

10 - Today was a tough loss as it will only add fuel to the first that the Bills can't beat a team with any semblance of talent.  It hurt more than any of the other losses because, despite all the things they did wrong, they still had the lead with 6 minutes left to go.  Then, in typically Bills fashion, our defense fell apart when it mattered most.  We thought we won the game once on the Hughes play, which I have a lot of thoughts about.  Then had them at 4th and short, took a timeout to get the call right, only to give up the biggest pass of the day.  Then, we Allen gets us downfield in two big plays and we get to relax a bit knowing we will at least tie the game.  A terrible, and I mean worst call of the season, call on 3rd and 4.  Then wide left.  For a boring game with poor execution, it turned into an emotional roller-coaster in the final 6 minutes.  Sadly, we played like the .500 team we've been the past month and found a way to lose a game that neither team had any business winning.

 

 

With that, we leave the factory of sadness and head off to Miami.  Go Bills!

 

 

Agree with points #2 and #3 100%.

[sunshynman]

10 hours ago, Inigo Montoya said:

On a team starved for offense, not giving the ball to their most explosive offensive player is simply incomprehensible.

 

Singletary had three touches in the first half.   THREE.  The Browns were near dead last against the run coming into this game. 

 

What are they thinking?  I just don't get it...

 

 

Amen! Devin is our home run threat! Run him until the D stops him, then play action, then end around, then run some more! Take the pressure of Josh get up by a couple scores then sling it around! And it would keep our D fresh and ready to T off!

 

[HalftimeAdjustment]

10 hours ago, Reed83HOF said:

John Brown was on the radio and said it was the play, when they showed Cover 0 this is what the offense was supposed to do. The only play was to John Brown and depending on if he beat the man or not it was an over the top or back shoulder throw. That was the only play based on the D. Jesus Christ; it was all in the thread I posted. What you are postulating didn't exist as a play Allen was able to go to.

 

Ok, so let's assume this is accurate and Allen made the right decision based on the playbook.

 

Daboll should draw up a higher percentage play for this scenario which the team is more likely to execute on, based on the players he has. This play appears to be unlikely to hit and will result in a low 3rd down %age as teams try to force us to make this.

[Coach Tuesday]

17 minutes ago, sunshynman said:

 

Amen! Devin is our home run threat! Run him until the D stops him, then play action, then end around, then run some more! Take the pressure of Josh get up by a couple scores then sling it around! And it would keep our D fresh and ready to T off!

 

He’s not a homerun threat.  They don’t really have one of those on the roster.  Beane hasn’t prioritized speed enough.

Just now, HalftimeAdjustment said:

 

Ok, so let's assume this is accurate and Allen made the right decision based on the playbook.

 

Daboll should draw up a higher percentage play for this scenario which the team is more likely to execute on, based on the players he has. This play appears to be unlikely to hit and will result in a low 3rd down %age as teams try to force us to make this.

I somewhat agree here although a back shoulder lob like that should be pitch-and-catch for a veteran QB and WR tandem.  That’s an almost impossible play to defend if done right.  Is it a lack of attention to detail in practice by Allen, Brown and Daboll?  Clearly also they still need a real number one receiver - I love Smoke’s game but he cannot be relied on to carry the offense.

[cgg716]

10 hours ago, Mango said:

 

When your QB regularly struggles to score more than 20 points per game, with a top 5-10 defense, you’re going to get more judgement. When JA can take over multiple games with his arm, he’ll get more leeway. Until then he’s been inconsistent, and his inconsistencies have been largely the most glaring issues in our loses. 

A.. this is not a top 10 D. B. My comment clearly makes the point that our coaches don't WANT games to be taken over, they are actively TRYING to do just enough to win, not throttle the opponent 

[The Firebaugh Kid]

Thank you Virgil. Perfect assessment. It's the situational playcalling and decision making that lost that game. 

[hemma]

1) Best I can figure is that Daboll thinks our OL is soft & isn't capable of run blocking.

2) We have an extra point kicker but we don't have a field goal kicker and we really should get one of those.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

11 hours ago, Sweats said:

 

 

All he needed was to make 1 FG.......just one to tie and 2 to win.

Who do we really think we are by going for it on 4th down twice in one game. It's not like the wind was a factor.

 

I don't get it.

 

Distance was a factor 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

11 hours ago, Buffbills123 said:

My goodness. For everyone whining about Daboll and the third down play call, you do realize the QB has more than one read? Is this on Daboll? 

 

3rd and 4 is what Cole Beasley is made for, and clevand isn’t even covering him. 

 

Brown vs Ward isn’t the match up to attack here.

 

 

[Coach Tuesday]

This play has been dissected and discussed at length in other threads.

 

The play was called to go to Brown.  Should be an easy back shoulder lob which any decent QB/WR combo can execute in their sleep and it’s almost impossible to defend.  They just didn’t execute it, might be a result of a lack of attention to detail.

 

Something was off with the protection up front which is probably on Allen.  He didn’t account or adjust for the blitzer on his left side and as a result, Dawkins blocks NO ONE.  If Allen had turned his body toward Beasley he would’ve been creamed head-on by the free blitzer.  There is an almost zero percent chance he can complete the pass to his left there given the presnap failure to adjust the protection scheme.

[Da webster guy]

35 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

He’s not a homerun threat.  They don’t really have one of those on the roster.  Beane hasn’t prioritized speed enough.

I somewhat agree here although a back shoulder lob like that should be pitch-and-catch for a veteran QB and WR tandem.  That’s an almost impossible play to defend if done right.  Is it a lack of attention to detail in practice by Allen, Brown and Daboll?  Clearly also they still need a real number one receiver - I love Smoke’s game but he cannot be relied on to carry the offense.

 

He's on pace to be a top ten 1200yd receiver and seems to have great hands, durable and has an exceptional knack for 3rd down conversions.   We could use another guy like him, but saying he's not a real number one is head scratching.

 

Brown has more yards than Hopkins, Edelman, OBJ etc. on far less targets this season.   Maybe a better way to say it is that we could use another reliable, productive receiver like Brownie.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

 

As to the deep ball misses, if you read one of Allen's post game quotes, he stated something to the effect: " I may be too worried about under throwing and getting an INT"

 

I think overall that may be the issue.  He's a gunslinger and always will be, but they've beaten into him about reducing the turnovers to the point he's too nervous.  As was stated his 10 to 15 yard throws many of them were ropes, but overall he's playing scared and afraid to just play.

[thebandit27]

Having taken some time to reflect, here's what I've got:

 

Allen didn't have a great game, but my word, he was nowhere near as bad as some folks in here say. It's no wonder why some posters get accused of wanting to see the kid fail.

 

He was mostly accurate with his intermediate throws, missed a few, had the usual half dozen dropped, but generally moves the offense. Shame that Denzel Ward made a really smart DPI foul on Foster early, because that would've been the deep throw TD folks have been asking for all year.

 

My biggest beef is with the staff. For starters: the next time Daboll puts a player in position to maximize his personal talents will be the first. Why is our QB running a timing offense? Why is Cole Beasley running deep routes? Why are Andre Roberts and Dawson Knox continuing to get play time on 3rd downs when they consistently drop passes in critical moments?

 

But mostly, there's nothing wrong with doing what works. Allen has been absolutely money on 3rd downs when working shallow crossers and flood concepts. Where were those yesterday? Why do we refuse to put him on the move in key conversion situations? Bad coaching.

 

My other big beef continues to be a total lack of play making ability on offense. Does anyone honestly remember any pass catcher on this team making any type of play on a ball in the last 16 months? 

 

This team has a ways to go. Allen needs to be better, and I believe he'll get there, but it would sure be nice if the staff either attempted to work with his ability OR gave him a surplus of talent to work with so that he didn't have to be the hero. They've done neither. More concerning is that they seem to be just fine with it.

[Gugny]

3 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

But mostly, there's nothing wrong with doing what works. Allen has been absolutely money on 3rd downs when working shallow crossers and flood concepts. Where were those yesterday? Why do we refuse to put him on the move in key conversion situations? Bad coaching.

 

 

I agree with everything you said.  Everything.  But the quoted text above is what's really grinding my gears.

 

I swear to GOD ... Daboll identifies what works, then makes it a point to stop doing those things.

 

It's like some sort of sick game.

 

He has to go.  And if McDermott won't get rid of him, then both of them have to go.

[Coach Tuesday]

38 minutes ago, Da webster guy said:

 

He's on pace to be a top ten 1200yd receiver and seems to have great hands, durable and has an exceptional knack for 3rd down conversions.   We could use another guy like him, but saying he's not a real number one is head scratching.

 

Brown has more yards than Hopkins, Edelman, OBJ etc. on far less targets this season.   Maybe a better way to say it is that we could use another reliable, productive receiver like Brownie.

 

He needs to be schemed open. 

[HappyDays]

8 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

But mostly, there's nothing wrong with doing what works

 

I only realized this morning we didn't run a single jet sweep to McKenzie yesterday. That has been successful all year and the Browns LBs are terrible. Why wasn't that in the game plan? I would have preferred that on 3rd and short over a deep shot to Beasley.

[GG]

16 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

This team has a ways to go. Allen needs to be better, and I believe he'll get there, but it would sure be nice if the staff either attempted to work with his ability OR gave him a surplus of talent to work with so that he didn't have to be the hero. They've done neither. More concerning is that they seem to be just fine with it.

 

What gives you confidence that he will get better?  He's in his 2nd season, and I haven't seen much improvement in the key areas, such as throwing with anticipation and reacting properly to any pressure.  These are the critical aspects of good NFL QB play, but he's still late with his throws and bails to the run too fast.

 

We can talk all we want about our OC and playmaker deficiencies, but the bottom line remains that Allen is too easily schemed by the opponents.  He faced a lot of 8-man fronts and still hasn't found a way to consistently beat those.  His style puts added pressure on the OL and while it's a valid question to why Daboll is trying to run a timing offense with Josh, the flipside is that letting Josh be Josh would be an utter disaster over a course of an entire game and season.  The guy needs to show that he's elevating his game.