starrymessenger Posted November 12, 2019 Posted November 12, 2019 Just now, ganesh said: The stats presented by the OP Disproves that theory. Every time Singletary touched the ball, he got positive yards.... Yeah, and like everybody else he wasn't doing much in the passing game.
Brianmoorman4jesus Posted November 12, 2019 Posted November 12, 2019 80% of my posts this season on game day has been to give Singletary the ball. We did it 1 game and the guy was unstoppable. The Bills lose because of the Bills more often then because of the opponent. Very upsetting
John from Riverside Posted November 12, 2019 Posted November 12, 2019 4 minutes ago, NewEra said: So basically, Josh Allen was pretty bad as he couldn’t do jack vs a stacked box. When teams stack the box it makes it easier to hit home runs. Yet we haven’t hit a home run all season. That lies the true problem IMO. i love JA and I’m all in on him, but if we can’t pass vs a stacked box ALL GAME long, that’s a serious problem. Mostly a QB play problem I think that sometimes just moving the chains and keeping your defense fresh is fine......let Mayfield sit on the bench and stew for a bit and watch him try to do to much and get picked. To me not everything needs to be a home run play......just grind it out and be selective on your deep shots.....for instance on a 3d and 4......why do we need to go for a bomb when we can either run it for a first or let Josh get the first down? I like deep shots on FIRST down
mjohns85 Posted November 12, 2019 Posted November 12, 2019 33 minutes ago, Logic said: On Sunday, during and after the game, I was absolutely furious that Singletary didn't get more carries. HOWEVER...reading through Daboll's presser comments and watching All-22 footage that seems to back them up, what he says rings true: The Browns basically packed the box all game long and dared the Bills to beat them through the air. You can make the argument that the Bills should have just run the ball anyway and tried to impose their will on the Browns, but I'm not sure how much success they would have had against all the 8 and 9 man boxes the Browns were presenting. What the Bills did instead was to try to force the Browns to back off by beating them through the air. The only problem was that the Bills couldn't/didn't beat them through the air, so the boxes kept getting stacked and the pressure kept coming. You'd like to think in these types of situations that the QB you selected in the 1st round would have the ability to make the opposing defense pay for over-committing to the run by punishing them through the air -- he could not. He did not. Less of my irritation and concern is directed toward Brian Daboll now, and more of it is directed at Josh Allen. He NEEDS to be able to make defenses pay when they do this, and he couldn't. He needs to step up. He needs to get better. If he doesn't, teams will just keep on doing this. That frustration should be directed towards the front office, not Josh. Josh is far from perfect, but he needs legitimate weapons on offense to succeed. Beasley and Brown are way better than last year WR corps; however he lacks a true #1 WR or an above average TE. Again Josh is far from perfect, but our lack of talent on offense is undeniable.
TH3 Posted November 12, 2019 Posted November 12, 2019 48 minutes ago, Logic said: directed at Josh Allen. He NEEDS to be able to make defenses pay when they do this, and he couldn't. He needs to step up. He needs to get better. If he doesn't, teams will just keep on doing this. I don't think JA is the primary issue....our wideouts are pedestrian....at best. Brown is nice....but after that we got nothing...Kroft is invisible....we don't even have a #2....Beasely is nice - but he is a scavenger...not a stretcher.... FFS....Baker has Landry and OBJ.... 2
NewEra Posted November 12, 2019 Posted November 12, 2019 7 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: I think that sometimes just moving the chains and keeping your defense fresh is fine......let Mayfield sit on the bench and stew for a bit and watch him try to do to much and get picked. To me not everything needs to be a home run play......just grind it out and be selective on your deep shots.....for instance on a 3d and 4......why do we need to go for a bomb when we can either run it for a first or let Josh get the first down? I like deep shots on FIRST down I’m just saying, when the opposing defense stacks the box all game long, like they said the browns did sunday, than the passing game needs to make more than a couple big plays. It was pathetic to watch. I hated that deep shot on 3rd and 4 too. really wish every 3rd down play gave allen a solid option to run. Seems like that’s our best option to get the first down at the moment 1
dorquemada Posted November 12, 2019 Posted November 12, 2019 58 minutes ago, ngbills said: I know this has been talked about in general terms. But wanted to look at Devin Singletary vs Browns in closer detail. I find it absurd that he was not used more. I find it more absurd given how he performed the week prior. It is maddening to hear the logic and excuses from this coaching staff as to why he was not used more. I am losing any trust in them more each day. All of his runs below. He had 1 carry the entire 1st quarter and it went for 4 yards. Granted Bills only had two drives and both short ones. Maybe he is given rock that is different. He had 2 carries in the second quarter. One went for 9 and the other for 8. Not able to run the ball? He had 5 carries in the 3rd quarter. This included a 10, 6 and 4 yd plus two for 1 and 0. Again, not bad for not being able to run. But 5 carries over 3 drives in a close game in the 3rd quarter and this was his heaviest workload? Zero carries in the 4th quarter. Bills have 3 possessions and he gets zero carries with Bills down 3 in all of these drives and plenty of clock. Even the last drive you have almost two minutes in prevent defense mode. Then we get the lame excuses. The box was stacked. We need to continue to evaluate. Blah blah blah. 1 11:19 2 8 CLE 43 Devin Singletary right guard for 4 yards (tackle by Morgan Burnett and Damarious Randall) 2 14:48 1 10 BUF 24 Devin Singletary right guard for 9 yards (tackle by Damarious Randall) 2 12:58 2 10 BUF 48 Devin Singletary left tackle for 8 yards (tackle by Greedy Williams) 3 14:54 1 10 BUF 23 Devin Singletary right tackle for 1 yard (tackle by Larry Ogunjobi) 3 13:32 2 10 BUF 40 Devin Singletary right tackle for 10 yards (tackle by T.J. Carrie) 3 12:58 1 10 BUF 50 Devin Singletary right guard for 4 yards (tackle by Chad Thomas) 3 10:22 1 25 BUF 16 Devin Singletary right guard for 6 yards (tackle by Larry Ogunjobi and Damarious Randall) 3 1:35 2 4 CLE 36 Devin Singletary left guard for no gain (tackle by Sheldon Richardson) No, you don't understand. Daboll is saving Singletary for NEXT time they play the Browns. He's playing 12th dimensional chess and you're stuck at checkers
LABILLBACKER Posted November 12, 2019 Posted November 12, 2019 (edited) 48 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: So McDermott, before the game, called Browns DC Steve Wilks (who used to work for him) a "Damn good coach" Wilks basically wagered that the Bills wouldn't figure out a way to run against 8 or 9 in the box. And he was right. But of course, globally one can, even with a line that is not great power-rushing. Daboll actually did some clever things to help us run last year with a worse OL. The thing is, it's a bit of a Zebra and I don't mean a ref. The straightforward way to beat that is with passing, and the point to remember is, while "almost only counts in horseshoes and handgrenades", we were only a couple of offensive and ST plays away from making the Browns fall on that thing. And while sure, we all want Allen to be better because, Bottom Line, that's the job of the Franchise Man, there were other places those "couple of plays" could have come from: -better play choice in some key situations playing to our strengths -some drops or failures to haul in a contested ball -some uncalled penalties Stop babysitting your TE's and have them run short routes in the middle of the field. Get Dabolls ass back up in the booth where he can see a stacked box live. Run play action more. This isn't rocket science and the Browns tipped their hand early. Edited November 12, 2019 by LABILLBACKER 1
Nextmanup Posted November 12, 2019 Posted November 12, 2019 54 minutes ago, Logic said: On Sunday, during and after the game, I was absolutely furious that Singletary didn't get more carries. HOWEVER...reading through Daboll's presser comments and watching All-22 footage that seems to back them up, what he says rings true: The Browns basically packed the box all game long and dared the Bills to beat them through the air. You can make the argument that the Bills should have just run the ball anyway and tried to impose their will on the Browns, but I'm not sure how much success they would have had against all the 8 and 9 man boxes the Browns were presenting. What the Bills did instead was to try to force the Browns to back off by beating them through the air. The only problem was that the Bills couldn't/didn't beat them through the air, so the boxes kept getting stacked and the pressure kept coming. You'd like to think in these types of situations that the QB you selected in the 1st round would have the ability to make the opposing defense pay for over-committing to the run by punishing them through the air -- he could not. He did not. Less of my irritation and concern is directed toward Brian Daboll now, and more of it is directed at Josh Allen. He NEEDS to be able to make defenses pay when they do this, and he couldn't. He needs to step up. He needs to get better. If he doesn't, teams will just keep on doing this. I would imagine everyone is going to copy Belichick's blue print for shutting down our offense. As BB said, make Josh Allen be a QB. 1
colin Posted November 12, 2019 Posted November 12, 2019 2 minutes ago, TH3 said: I don't think JA is the primary issue....our wideouts are pedestrian....at best. Brown is nice....but after that we got nothing...Kroft is invisible....we don't even have a #2....Beasely is nice - but he is a scavenger...not a stretcher.... FFS....Baker has Landry and OBJ.... honestly, i sometimes marvel at how cheeks are skill position talent is. our best play maker is a tie between brown and singletary (nod to brown, since we actually use him). brown was a cast off from baltimore, and clevland's 4th best skill position player (i'd say that's hunt) is better than anyone baltimore has. our pass d still did a very good job vs the browns, but they were able to run well and of course our O and special teams are horrid.
Gray Beard Posted November 12, 2019 Posted November 12, 2019 Gore had a few runs that went nowhere. I wonder if Singletary was being under utilized because Daboll saw Gore consistently putting them in bad down and distance situations.
Logic Posted November 12, 2019 Posted November 12, 2019 26 minutes ago, mjohns85 said: That frustration should be directed towards the front office, not Josh. Josh is far from perfect, but he needs legitimate weapons on offense to succeed. Beasley and Brown are way better than last year WR corps; however he lacks a true #1 WR or an above average TE. Again Josh is far from perfect, but our lack of talent on offense is undeniable. I agree only to an extent. The fact is that the All-22 footage from yesterday reveals that there were numerous instances where receivers were open and Josh didn't find them. Just with the exact personnel that they already have in-house right now, they would have gotten the job done on Sunday if Allen had played better. The loss isn't all on him, obviously, but his play was a huge factor. I like Allen, for the record. Just look at my avatar. I want him to succeed and I'm nowhere near wanting to bench him or call him a bust or anything like that. Better weapons will help him, sure, but they won't fix everything. It's time for his play to take another step forward, or else defenses will keep beating the Bills the same exact way they did on Sunday. 15 minutes ago, Nextmanup said: I would imagine everyone is going to copy Belichick's blue print for shutting down our offense. As BB said, make Josh Allen be a QB. Nailed it.
Nihilarian Posted November 12, 2019 Posted November 12, 2019 (edited) 35 minutes ago, ganesh said: The stats presented by the OP Disproves that theory. Every time Singletary touched the ball, he got positive yards.... This is exactly right and instead of looking at the entire game lets look at the first half. Going back to the play by play in the Bills first series Singletary had one carry off RG for 4 yards. The Bills second series it was DeMarco off RG for 2 yards, Gore off RG for 4 yards. Third series, Singletary off RG for 9 yards, next play Gore off RG for 3 yards first down. Allen run first down, Allen pass. Singletary off left tackle for 8 yards, Gore RT for 2 yards. This series resulted in a rush TD by Allen. Fourth series it was all Allen with 10 passes and one run, no RB runs at all. FG no good near end of first half. I think Daboll is full of crap. 19 passes vs 7 rushes in the first half. Singletary 3 rushes for 21 yards. 7.0 YPC doesn't look like a stacked box was effective against Singletary. The OC simply went pass happy while neglecting the run. No excuse for this! When you look at the actual runs by the running backs it was Singletary 8 carries, Gore 5 carries, DeMarco 1 carry. 14 called rushes by the Bills RBs vs 41 passes! To me, it just makes no sense at all to make that young, inexperienced QB carry the offense all game by throwing it 40+ times. Its what losing teams with top QBs do all the time. After watching Singletary against the Redskins he looks to be a special RB that can be the star player on offense, so why not make him the focal point instead? Edited November 12, 2019 by Nihilarian 1
starrymessenger Posted November 12, 2019 Posted November 12, 2019 1 minute ago, Nihilarian said: This is exactly right and instead of looking at the entire game lets look at the first half. Going back to the play by play in the Bills first series Singletary had one carry off RG for 4 yards. The Bills second series it was DeMarco off RG for 2 yards, Gore off RG for 4 yards. Third series, Singletary off RG for 9 yards, next play Gore off RG for 3 yards first down. Allen run first down, Allen pass. Singletary off left tackle for 8 yards, Gore RT for 2 yards. This series resulted in a rush TD by Allen. Fourth series it was all Allen with 10 passes and one run, no RB runs at all. FG no good near end of first half. I think Daboll is full of crap. 19 passes vs 7 rushes in the first half. Singletary 3 rushes for 21 yards. When you look at the actual runs by the running backs it was Singletary 8 carries, Gore 5 carries, DeMarco 1 carry. 14 called rushes by the Bills RBs vs 41 passes! To me, it just makes no sense at all to make that young, inexperienced QB carry the offense all game by throwing it 40+ times. Its what losing teams with top QBs do all the time. After watching Singletary against the Redskins he looks to be a special RB that can be the star player on offense, so why not make him the focal point instead? They don't call him motor for nothin.
BarleyNY Posted November 12, 2019 Posted November 12, 2019 1 hour ago, ganesh said: The stats presented by the OP Disproves that theory. Every time Singletary touched the ball, he got positive yards.... Singletary did about as well as any back in his situation, but the success he had was in getting tough yards after contact. I guess we could continue to run our 5’7” 200# RB into a stacked box all day rather than ask our 7th overall pick QB to beat man coverage, but I do see some problems there as well. One is that I’m pretty sure Singletary won’t last all that long doing that. I’d have done things like run some draws to him when the Browns finally backed off, but I’d have limited running him into 8+ defenders. Notably no other back had any success running the ball. The other, much bigger, issue is this: It means the Bills have given up on Allen. After the Washington game I really thought that was the case and the offense had been tailored to protect him, but I was wrong and the Cleveland game shows it. What’s more, the whole team will know it if their plan is to run into stacked boxes rather than put the ball in his hands - and that’s really the problem. They’d be better off making it official and starting Barkley. I was never a believer in Allen, but I’ve tried to give him a chance. Turns out that he’s the guy I (most people) thought he was coming out of college and he’s going to have to prove he’s more to get me to change my mind. I was done giving him a pass after game 8 this season.
starrymessenger Posted November 12, 2019 Posted November 12, 2019 I don't think making greater use of Singletary means you've given up on Josh. A good back is a young QBs best friend. I don't think that at 5'7" and 200 lbs there is any risk of shortening his career if he gets 20+ touches per in the Brown's game. He was the centrepiece, or motor, of his offence in college. Helping to carry an offence is what he does. So far I've seen nothing that suggests he is unable to transition in this role as a pro. Let one of the leagues worst run Ds prove that they can shut him down before you abandon the run entirely. Brown's didn't do that (they didn't have to). More likely the Patriots could. Browns are not the Pats. Situational awareness.
reddogblitz Posted November 12, 2019 Posted November 12, 2019 23 hours ago, Nitro said: The coach and the WGR apologists say they had eight men in the box. So? Attack them. Make them try to stop the run. This fear that they show is a trait Danilo has shown in other stops. This is not modern NFL offensive mindset. Be aggressive or you will be left behind. Bottom third offense is not acceptable either is being timid. Totally. The Clowns stink at defending the run. Does putting another guy in there turn them into the 85 Bears. Even with the stacked box Singletary was able to get 5.3 per carry over all 8 carries. Lame excuse IMHO 1 1
BananaB Posted November 12, 2019 Posted November 12, 2019 We move the ball better as a team when Singletary is getting handed the ball. It’s just that simple. It’s weird Daboll can’t figure this out. Gore is not a threat and right now neither is Josh Allens arm.
Mr. WEO Posted November 12, 2019 Posted November 12, 2019 What's everyone crying about? That's Singletary's second highest number of carries in a game this season. 2
ngbills Posted November 12, 2019 Posted November 12, 2019 Please please please. Stop with the you cant run when the defense stacks the box. That is such a horrible excuse. SO many ways to attack this. Its ridiculous. Lucky for Adrian Peterson nobody thought of stacking the box or he would never even sniffed a 2K yard season. You can run it at them at anyway. You can use formations that remove guys from the box. You can use motion. You can add more blockers to the box. You can design runs away from the extra defender. You can call the correct pass plays. On and on and on. 1 1
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