Bills at Browns Post Game Post Mortem

[thenorthremembers]

10 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

I think McDermott does a good job of motivating the team and gets them fired up to compete at a high level every game.  That is a big part of an NFL HC's duties, and he does that well.

 

All other aspects of being a HC he does poorly.

In word, he is what I would call "replaceable."

 

 

He is a below average head coach.  He can dress it up anyway he wants, but despite all his motivational speaking and talk about previous regimes making poor decisions his process has produced a similar outcome as Rex and Marrone's.    They were good at hovering around the playoffs as well, they just didnt have the Andy Dalton miracle.

 

On the upside he is probably about as good as Vrabel, O'brien and Gruden- on the downside he is about as good as Dan Quinn and Doug Marrone. 

[dave mcbride]

It's amazing to me how irate people are after a loss. The Bills went into that game as 3-point underdogs and lost on the road by 3 points to a desperate, talented team that's better than its record. The two teams' stats were almost identical too. It was a very hard-fought and close game, and the Bills lost because their kicker was worse than Cleveland's. There's one post above where a poster says that Daboll coached timidly at the end, and says this despite the fact that Allen's final throw was a deep sideline throw against a cover-zero defense. And no one as of yet has mentioned the almighty karma -- i.e., the Bills won a very close road game they shouldn't have because of the opposing kicker (TN), and one way to look at this is to basically say that things simply evened out. 

 

The bottom line: the Bills are not an elite team, and they're bound to play in a lot of close games. They are not going to win every one of them. Yet they are a decent team that might get to 10-6 despite a roster that's still a year away. They have three easy games left, plus a couple of possible wins out there for the taking. If there was one lesson from yesterday, it's that this is an any-given-Sunday league. The Steelers are not going to finish the season on an 11-0 streak. They have to play at Cleveland (where they really struggled last year) and at Baltimore, who may blow them out. The Raiders are going to lose at least 2 and quite possibly 3 more games. Indy is playing itself out of a WC slot. KC is 6-4. The Bills have the head to head over TN. 

 

Everything is OK. 

Edited November 11, 2019 by dave mcbride

[Nitro]

6 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

This is a fair observation IMO.   

 

IMO McD deliberately killed clock on our last possession because they do not trust Allen to move down the field and score a TD for the win.  They were playing for a FG, tie, and OT.

 

I genuinely wonder, for the first time ever, if they are thinking about moving on from him.  

They are afraid to ask Josh to put his foot on the gas b/c when he does that, he turns the ball over.

 

How is he going to progress if you think this way?  Plenty of good pro QBs started off rough.  Peyton Manning threw a ton of interceptions his rookie year.  You have to take the stumbles in order for the guy to grow and improve.  Working out of fear does him and the team no good

[Blank Stare]

1 hour ago, Cripple Creek said:

The Process dictates actives/inactives.

Gotta look at the tape and earn the right I guess. 

[Houston's #1 Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, TheProcess said:

Not trying to hot take this thing, but serious question. Why does this staff constantly over value special teams at the offenses expense? Not saying he’s a game breaker, but there is no way a guy like Senorise Perry should be active on game day over TJ Yeldon or Duke Williams. I’m not saying the result would’ve been different, but if you know the game plan is to throw the ball 40 times and ignore the run, then why not make all your best pass catchers available?  Perry is invisible at the job he’s asked (which I guess is a good thing) and the special teams is largely average. I’d rather give up a little yardage in the kicking game to buoy the offense with everything we have at our disposal. 

Therein lies the problem!!! But, yeah, don't run and not have two of your receivers active? I really want Duke to get more involved in the offense.

 

Also, we signed Corey Luiget? I swear I didn't see him once, yet we have Vincent Taylor inactive and Star still in?? UGH!!!!!

[Bangarang]

57 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

It's amazing to me how irate people are after a loss. The Bills went into that game as 3-point underdogs and lost on the road by 3 points to a desperate, talented team that's better than its record. The two teams' stats were almost identical too. It was a very hard-fought and close game, and the Bills lost because their kicker was worse than Cleveland's. There's one post above where a poster says that Daboll coached timidly at the end, and says this despite the fact that Allen's final throw was a deep sideline throw against a cover-zero defense. And no one as of yet has mentioned the almighty karma -- i.e., the Bills won a very close road game they shouldn't have because of the opposing kicker (TN), and one wat to look at this is to basically say that things simply evened out. 

 

The bottom line: the Bills are not an elite team, and they're bound to play in a lot of close games. They are not going to win every one of them. Yet they are a decent team that might get to 10-6 despite a roster that's still a year away. They have three easy games left, plus a couple of possible wins out there for the taking. If there was one lesson from yesterday, it's that this is an any-given-Sunday league. The Steelers are not going to finish the season on an 11-0 streak. They have to play at Cleveland (where they really struggled last year) and at Baltimore, who may blow them out. The Raiders are going to lose at least 2 and quite possibly 3 more games. Indy is playing itself out of a WC slot. KC is 6-4. The Bills have the head to head over TN. 

 

Everything is OK. 

I see a lot of people saying this roster is a year away. A year away from what exactly?

[WideNine]

11 minutes ago, Houston's #1 Bills Fan said:

Therein lies the problem!!! But, yeah, don't run and not have two of your receivers active? I really want Duke to get more involved in the offense.

 

Also, we signed Corey Luiget? I swear I didn't see him once, yet we have Vincent Taylor inactive and Star still in?? UGH!!!!!

 

Luiget was out there, and I think he helped. On one play I saw him point out protections and the defensive line shifted and it stoned a run.

 

Could tell it was not his first rodeo.

 

Did not watch him the whole game, will see how other more knowledgeable resources grade his 1st start for us.

 

 

[dave mcbride]

12 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

I see a lot of people saying this roster is a year away. A year away from what exactly?

A year away from when Brady hopefully stops playing for NE. That could happen next year if reports are to be believed. Also, BB got his 300th victory, so that may be a sign. I'm approaching these possibilities with a healthy amount of skepticism, but one can hope. Until it happens, the Bills won't have chance to win the division. 

[Coach Tuesday]

2 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

It's amazing to me how irate people are after a loss. The Bills went into that game as 3-point underdogs and lost on the road by 3 points to a desperate, talented team that's better than its record. The two teams' stats were almost identical too. It was a very hard-fought and close game, and the Bills lost because their kicker was worse than Cleveland's. There's one post above where a poster says that Daboll coached timidly at the end, and says this despite the fact that Allen's final throw was a deep sideline throw against a cover-zero defense. And no one as of yet has mentioned the almighty karma -- i.e., the Bills won a very close road game they shouldn't have because of the opposing kicker (TN), and one way to look at this is to basically say that things simply evened out. 

 

The bottom line: the Bills are not an elite team, and they're bound to play in a lot of close games. They are not going to win every one of them. Yet they are a decent team that might get to 10-6 despite a roster that's still a year away. They have three easy games left, plus a couple of possible wins out there for the taking. If there was one lesson from yesterday, it's that this is an any-given-Sunday league. The Steelers are not going to finish the season on an 11-0 streak. They have to play at Cleveland (where they really struggled last year) and at Baltimore, who may blow them out. The Raiders are going to lose at least 2 and quite possibly 3 more games. Indy is playing itself out of a WC slot. KC is 6-4. The Bills have the head to head over TN. 

 

Everything is OK. 

 

I think that's mostly right.  The game went about as I expected it to, although I thought there was a non-zero chance the Browns could come out totally disorganized and flat and Allen would finally hit on some deep passes and they'd take care of business a bit better.  I think the frustration you're sensing is (i) some folks are embarrassed because they've spent weeks fighting the narrative that the Bills weren't as good as their record; (ii) some of us are just exhausted from watching bad quarterback play for nearly three decades; (iii) the game was in hand, and the Bills should've been able to close it out; and (iv) there is a sense that, even though this isn't the most talented team, the talent is still being somewhat underutilized by the coaches, especially on offense.  Number (iv) is my biggest beef - I'm pretty darn sure that, although Allen has a lot of flaws and this offense lacks any real playmakers, a better OC would be getting more out of this offense than Daboll is.  He just seems to lack a feel for the rhythm of the game and lacks some situational awareness.  

 

Although on that final point, I suspect it's become a bit muddy and complicated as a result of McDermott-Daboll dynamic: after Allen fumbled the Eagles game away, I'm fairly certain McDermott instructed Daboll to keep it simple and use the running backs on those plays; that led to Daboll slamming Gore into the teeth of the 'Skins' d-line over and over again without success, which probably led to McD telling Daboll to pass more where the situation dictated it; which Daboll took as a license to air it out against a Browns defense that was totally stacking the box, which led to the fans (and probably McD) complaining that they didn't run enough... that's my suspicion, anyway - Daboll and McD are caught in a vicious cycle with the offense and they just can't get ahead of it.

Edited November 11, 2019 by Coach Tuesday

[dave mcbride]

2 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

I think that's mostly right.  The game went about as I expected it to, although I thought there was a non-zero chance the Browns could come out totally disorganized and flat and Allen would finally hit on some deep passes and they'd take care of business a bit better.  I think the frustration you're sensing is (i) some folks are embarrassed because they've spent weeks fighting the narrative that the Bills weren't as good as their record; (ii) some of us are just exhausted from watching bad quarterback play for nearly three decades; (iii) the game was in hand, and the Bills should've been able to close it out; and (iv) there is a sense that, even though this isn't the most talented team, the talent is still being somewhat underutilized by the coaches, especially on offense.  Number (iv) is my biggest beef - I'm pretty darn sure that, although Allen has a lot of flaws and this offense lacks any real playmakers, a better OC would be getting more out of this offense than Daboll is.  He just seems to lack a feel for the rhythm of the game and lacks some situational awareness.  

 

Although on that final point, I suspect it's become a bit muddy and complicated as a result of McDermott-Daboll dynamic: after Allen fumbled the Eagles game away, I'm fairly certain McDermott instructed Daboll to keep it simple and use the running backs on those plays; that led to Daboll slamming Gore into the teeth of the 'Skins' d-line over and over again without success, which probably led to McD telling Daboll to pass more where the situation dictated it; which Daboll took as a license to air it out against a Browns defense that was totally stacking the box, which led to the fans (and probably McD) complaining that they didn't run enough... that's my suspicion, anyway - Daboll and McD are in a vicious cycle with the offense and they just can't get ahead of it.

I mostly agree, but I also think that if Allen hit that wide open deep shot, the narrative about Daboll would be completely different. 

[Coach Tuesday]

1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

I mostly agree, but I also think that if Allen hit that wide open deep shot, the narrative about Daboll would be completely different. 

Probably so.  And I certainly prefer taking chances to the “Gallipoli Offense” strategy of repeatedly slamming a running back into a wall with little hope of success.  Allen needs to bail out his OC by hitting one or two of these chances...

[thebandit27]

16 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I mostly agree, but I also think that if Allen hit that wide open deep shot, the narrative about Daboll would be completely different. 

 

14 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Probably so.  And I certainly prefer taking chances to the “Gallipoli Offense” strategy of repeatedly slamming a running back into a wall with little hope of success.  Allen needs to bail out his OC by hitting one or two of these chances...

 

How much different are the game result and narrative if Denzel Ward doesn't interfere with Foster on the opening play?

 

Because that was a TD he saved 

[Coach Tuesday]

5 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

 

How much different are the game result and narrative if Denzel Ward doesn't interfere with Foster on the opening play?

 

Because that was a TD he saved 

Sorry but I have no faith in foster successfully tracking an oblong object in the air.  He just can’t seem to do it.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

https://www.dawgsbynature.com/2019/11/11/20958436/cleveland-browns-brownies-frownies-browns-edge-bills-19-16

 

Sunday’s game against the Buffalo Bills was basically the 2019 season for the Cleveland Browns. A loss would place Cleveland at 2-7 and basically end their year.

 

The 6-2 Bills are quite good this year. They feature the league’s third best rushing team, whereas the Browns don’t offer much as far as run defense. If Cleveland had any chance of making the postseason, it had to start with a victory over Buffalo.

 

Luckily, the Browns escaped with a 19-16 home win (their first of season) with the help of two missed Steve Hauschka field goals.

[thebandit27]

25 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Sorry but I have no faith in foster successfully tracking an oblong object in the air.  He just can’t seem to do it.

 

More or less agree, but that ball was on the money. He'd have caught it and scored, and Ward knew it. Really smart play by him.

[Cripple Creek]

2 hours ago, TheProcess said:

Gotta look at the tape and earn the right I guess. 

No, you don’t. The Process dictates the number of WRs who should be active.  The Process dictates that it is more important to have ST RBs, FBs and penalty prone TEs active on game day than an extra WR who possesses a skill set that our woefully inadequate group do not otherwise possess.

 

i don’t care about The Process any longer. I tried, really, I did. I had high hopes for this group but those hopes continue to be beaten down as I see the same excuses over and over. The same missteps. Results matter.

[Bangarang]

3 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

A year away from when Brady hopefully stops playing for NE. That could happen next year if reports are to be believed. Also, BB got his 300th victory, so that may be a sign. I'm approaching these possibilities with a healthy amount of skepticism, but one can hope. Until it happens, the Bills won't have chance to win the division. 

I was hoping that in the 4th year, McD would have this team good enough to compete for the division regardless of whether Brady or BB were still around. 
 

If we’re still hoping to squeak in as a WC team next year then this regime and probably the QB they picked aren’t what we hoped they would be.

[3rdand12]

On 11/10/2019 at 5:00 PM, Agent 91 said:

Allen HAS to wake up. He can not be allowed to put the ball on the carpet

 And he cant be allowed to sleepwalk to start the game. Levi and run d not withstsnding...  we held them to 19 points. I just cant deal with the constant passes for Allen. The reason he keeps coming back in the 4th... is because he never puts anyone to bed early 

I am aware it his second year and he has a ton on his plate. Plus a New Cast of characters surrounding him.
Just frustrating times for us fans.
gotta give our young QB and OC and players 3 years.
we just gotta

On 11/10/2019 at 5:01 PM, clearwater cadet said:

We suck and the sabres are just as sh#ty!

should we create a hot line. just in case...

: )

[Blank Stare]

6 hours ago, Houston's #1 Bills Fan said:

Therein lies the problem!!! But, yeah, don't run and not have two of your receivers active? I really want Duke to get more involved in the offense.

I don’t agree with the game plan from the start, but I’m with ya if that’s going to be the game plan. I’m not one of those guys that thinks we need to be balanced pass vs. run, but the way we’ve used arguably our best weapon (Singletary) is criminal. 

3 hours ago, Cripple Creek said:

No, you don’t. The Process dictates the number of WRs who should be active.  The Process dictates that it is more important to have ST RBs, FBs and penalty prone TEs active on game day than an extra WR who possesses a skill set that our woefully inadequate group do not otherwise possess.

 

i don’t care about The Process any longer. I tried, really, I did. I had high hopes for this group but those hopes continue to be beaten down as I see the same excuses over and over. The same missteps. Results matter.

Lol. Sounds like I need a new handle. 
 

In all seriousness, I’m not quite where you are yet because I do think organizationally we are on better footing (no rex pun intended) than when they got here. But it’s becoming much harder to overlook/defend some of these decisions. Neglecting the offensive skill position players in an offensive, pass-oriented league is insane. If that’s The Process, then “for those reasons, I’m out”. 

[Cripple Creek]

9 minutes ago, TheProcess said:

I don’t agree with the game plan from the start, but I’m with ya if that’s going to be the game plan. I’m not one of those guys that thinks we need to be balanced pass vs. run, but the way we’ve used arguably our best weapon (Singletary) is criminal. 

Lol. Sounds like I need a new handle. 
 

In all seriousness, I’m not quite where you are yet because I do think organizationally we are on better footing (no rex pun intended) than when they got here. But it’s becoming much harder to overlook/defend some of these decisions. Neglecting the offensive skill position players in an offensive, pass-oriented league is insane. If that’s The Process, then “for those reasons, I’m out”. 

We are in much the same place.  I had very high hopes for this HC/GM pairing, but my confidence wanes as they make the same excuses week after week.