R Incognito on Real Sports on HBO

[Nextmanup]

3 hours ago, Gray Beard said:

My guess:  when he’s taking his medication correctly, then he seems more or less like a normal person.  When he doesn’t take his medication correctly, he gets wild. 

I have no knowledge of what, if any, medication he’s on.  This is just a guess. 

I haven't seen the piece yet but look forward to watching it soon.

But I think it's more a substance abuse problem and when he is using, he kind of turns into a monster, just like lots of other people.

 

Alcohol in particular is a terrible drug.

 

Anyone who has seen him speak when things are going OK will see he is a very normal, bright, articulate guy who seems very well adjusted.  

 

He's a classic Jekyll and Hyde sort of person, just like zillions of alcoholics, among others.

 

It's a shame the Bills couldn't work with professionals and Richie to get his ship righted before we got rid of him.

He'd be, by far, the best OL on this team right now if he was still here.

We miss him.

 

 

 

 

 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

46 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

I haven't seen the piece yet but look forward to watching it soon.

But I think it's more a substance abuse problem and when he is using, he kind of turns into a monster, just like lots of other people.

 

Alcohol in particular is a terrible drug.

 

Anyone who has seen him speak when things are going OK will see he is a very normal, bright, articulate guy who seems very well adjusted.  

 

He's a classic Jekyll and Hyde sort of person, just like zillions of alcoholics, among others.

 

It's a shame the Bills couldn't work with professionals and Richie to get his ship righted before we got rid of him.

He'd be, by far, the best OL on this team right now if he was still here.

We miss him.

 

 

 

 

 

Good call out.  For all the culture and family talk by McD(also faith), when Richie was struggling they said take a pay cut or leave.  

[Doc]

4 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Good call out.  For all the culture and family talk by McD(also faith), when Richie was struggling they said take a pay cut or leave.  

 

LOL!  From where did you get this?

[mykidsdad]

If you were to type cast a human being to be an offensive gaurd, you couldn't find a better one. RI is a great player. I find few guards fun to watch, RI is one of them. It is a shame he is a head case.

[RaoulDuke79]

5 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

He shouldn’t even be in the nfl.  I’m all for forgiveness but this dude has been scum for his entire life.  There are a billion other better people to have a pity party for.  

As I said in another thread. Its amazing that he's allowed out in public,  let alone able to play for an NFL team. He should be under 24 hour supervision. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

6 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Good call out.  For all the culture and family talk by McD(also faith), when Richie was struggling they said take a pay cut or leave.  

 

BS call-out.  You have no idea what McD and the health professionals on the Bills tried, nor should you - that stuff should be kept private.

 

The Bills (nor any organization) have no responsibility to be an endless perambulator for a problem child.  They have a responsibility to address problems they see and offer assistance.  If the problem is not accepted by the individual in question and they aren't willing to go through whatever program is recommended, what else is the organization supposed to do?  Pay a guy who is out of shape and stoned in meetings like he's mentally sharp and physically ready to go? 

 

They can say "OK, then, this is what we think you're worth in your current state, take it or go" and he can take it or go (or take it and then go, as the case may be).

 

[TroutDog]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Got a linky?

 

Did he say he was overweight and stoned from the start, or did he start out OK and regress in 2017 with McDermott?  There had to be a reason they asked him to take a pay cut.

 

I think he's the kind of guy who keeps thinking he's cured so he goes off his meds or starts substance abuse which interferes with 'em

I watch it in an app on my AppleTV (and checked on my devices) and don’t see a way to link. Apologies. 
 

No, for your question. It was during his third year that he said he ‘let himself go’. Per the line of questioning, that’s what drove the pay cut request and then he finally said, **** it. 
 

I felt the same until I saw this piece. He appears to have a support  team in place and also seems to, finally, recognize where he’s failed. Time will tell, of course. Me, for one, will root for him. 
 

Per many here who say he’s had enough chances, it’s funny as Gumble asked at the end of the piece how strange it was that Richie gets all of these chances but Kaepernick gets none as he was straight laced. Absolutely fair take, in my opinion. As a disabled vet who’s had two neursurgeries from my service, what Kaep did is EXACTLY what I (and countless others) gave so much for: constitutional rights that include peaceful protest. 
 

I digress. To me, a homer Bills fan, I just appreciated hearing what took place from the horses mouth. More reason to trust the leadership in place. 

[EasternOHBillsFan]

5 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

He shouldn’t even be in the nfl.  I’m all for forgiveness but this dude has been scum for his entire life.  There are a billion other better people to have a pity party for.  

 

Hmmm... scum his entire life? That's going too far. You have no reason to make such an assertion unless you grew up with him.

[Mark80]

Saying RI is going to mess up again, or saying he doesn't deserve to be in the NFL is like saying you want a cancer survivor just going to get cancer again or they don't belong in the NFL.  The guy has a diagnosed serious mental issue.  He got himself back from a dark, dark place.  Many never do.  People need to look at mental illness like the disease it is, not some funny joke.  Just my opinion.  I'm rooting for him.

Edited November 10, 2019 by Mark80

[Hapless Bills Fan]

55 minutes ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

 

Hmmm... scum his entire life? That's going too far. You have no reason to make such an assertion unless you grew up with him.

 

I dunno about scum, but he's reportedly had issues his whole life:

 

“His parents were definitely psychotic. You understand why Richie is the way Richie is,” said Jim Moore, 65, Bogota’s recreation director who coached youth football when Incognito was a boy.

.....

“The kid had anger issues … he destroyed all his toys,” said Bob Mühlhahn, 48, who lived across the street from the Incognitos and eventually bought their old Elm Avenue home. When he took down the wallpaper, he said, he found holes in the walls consistent with punching and kicking. "

.....

He was apparently bullied and beat up initially in football and baseball, in part because he was large and was put to play with older kids:

“If he struck out, he’d be upset. He’d cry. That led the other kids to make fun of him. Kids are pretty cruel at that age and Richie was pretty thin-skinned,” said Little League coach Kerry Deutsch. “If you’re the biggest kid on the team and you cry, for the other kids on the other team, you’re a mark.”  And then bullying came to an end.

“There was a smaller kid who was picking on Richie,” recalled Seth Bendian, a baseball coach in Englewood who knew both kids in 1993. “I found out there was a resolution. Richie did what he could do, which was kick this kid’s butt … I’m pretty sure the teasing stopped after that.”

....

(At U of Nebraska) He was First Team All Freshman in 2002, but was ejected in a game against Penn State for fighting, and was seen spitting on another player. In spring 2003 he was suspended — the team never said why— and sent to the Menninger Clinic in Topeka, Kan., to be treated for anger management. [Hapless sez: there are stories about his relentlessly bullying players with less status on the team]

....

When he wasn’t suited up, he was still getting into brawls — found guilty of misdemeanor assault in after “one of those parties in a Van Wilder movie” in February 2004, a former student told The Post. (....) "The 6-foot-3, 320-pound lineman — who was punching holes in the walls when he couldn’t find a chin — finally left the party, but not before cold-cocking a poor sap who happened to be standing by the door. “He took his cell phone, threw it, and then punched him on his way out,” the former student said. "   Incognito was set to play his junior year for new coach Bill Callahan, but was unceremoniously suspended from the nationally ranked squad, a move thought to be precipitated by the February brawl.
....Callahan said at the time, “We have team rules. They’re very simple to follow. If they’re not followed, and they’re not complied to, then (you) suffer the consequences, unfortunately.” But a former student told The Post the reason he heard from “inside the locker room” was that Incognito “tried to charge Bill Callahan.”

....

Incognito left Nebraska for Oregon, but never played a game down there.

“He was talented, but came with issues. He claimed they were in the past,” head coach Mike Bellotti said at the time. “We set a code of conduct he had to meet. He failed that before fall camp.”

....

He soon cemented his claim as the NFL’s dirtiest player — with a league-high seven personal fouls while playing for the Rams.

St. Louis cut ties with him in 2009 after he head-butted two opponents in a blowout loss to the Titans. [Hapless sez: during one game Mike Martz was observed yelling "What the F### is wrong with that F###er?" about Incognito] That same year, Incognito — who has admitted to doing drugs during his time in St. Louis — was charged with misdemeanor attempted possession of drug paraphernalia in Arizona, according to court records.

So yeah.  There's a pretty documented track record there, from destroying toys and punching holes in the walls of his childhood home, to being sent for anger management counseling while at Nebraska and showing he "failed it" by committing assault at a party, bullying other players on the team, charging the HC, and finally getting kicked out of two college programs and cut from an NFL team for being too much of a liability for PF's.

 

And that's all before he got to Miami.

 

 

[Royale with Cheese]

I think Richie would be fun to get high with.

But I wouldn’t be near him if he was drunk...especially whiskey drunk.

[Gugny]

2 hours ago, RaoulDuke79 said:

As I said in another thread. Its amazing that he's allowed out in public,  let alone able to play for an NFL team. He should be under 24 hour supervision. 

 

I agree with this.  It's insanity, to me, that he was given back his firearms after the whole "I wan't my dead father's head," debacle at the funeral home.  This dude is a serious threat to society.  Shame on the NFL.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

46 minutes ago, Mark80 said:

Saying RI is going to mess up again, or saying he doesn't deserve to be in the NFL is like saying you want a cancer survivor just going to get cancer again or they don't belong in the NFL.  The guy has a diagnosed serious mental issue.  He got himself back from a dark, dark place.  Many never do.  People need to look at mental illness like the disease it is, not some funny joke.  Just my opinion.  I'm rooting for him.

 

I think you've got it Mixed, "Mark80".  Saying RI has a high probability to mess up again, is like saying a cancer survivor with certain types of cancer has a high probability for a relapse.  We're not saying we hope he messes up, or we hope the cancer survivor relapses.  But that's the data associated with the disease.  I hope RI doesn't mess up again.  I hope he stays on his meds, and avoids his party drugs, and remains a functional citizen of the world, but he's admitted publically to recreational drug use and abuse as well as mental disorders, and the data says there's a high probability he won't.

 

Saying RI doesn't deserve another chance to be in the NFL, is to recognize that this guy has now had mental issues that led 2 teams to part with him as too much of a liability, and to him having some kind of breakdown while employed by a 3rd.  With his new team, he's already been penalized and fined for grinding an RB's face in the dirt (all caught on camera) after the play.

 

Frankly, football is dangerous.  One guy losing control and breaking another's jaw, or making an illegal block, can derail or destroy another guy's career and health.  The other guys playing in the NFL deserve better than to have this multiple offender for losing control who could snap any time playing near them.

 

I'm rooting for Richie too, but I think enough is enough when it comes to the NFL.

[KoolAidKid]

6 hours ago, BillsShredder83 said:

If you haven't struggled with a real mental illness, you just honestly cant put yourself in this guys shoes. I gotta route for the guy, cause to root against him is to root against myself in a way. I've absolutely been down that path and it's a nightmare. If Richie Fn Incognitoooo can get his isht together, leaves some hope that maybe I can put together a decent life too. 

No Shredder Incognito will fall off the wagon.  It never fails.  The guys with the weak minds can't stay away from the drugs and booze that will destroy them.   Incognito will go down the tubes before long watch and see.  Strong back, weak mind. I guess there is always hope but I wouldn't count on it.  Maybe one in a million make it.  Those are terrible odds. 

Edited November 10, 2019 by KoolAidKid

[Hapless Bills Fan]

26 minutes ago, KoolAidKid said:

No Shredder Incognito will fall off the wagon.  It never fails.  The guys with the weak minds can't stay away from the drugs and booze that will destroy them.   Incognito will go down the tubes before long watch and see.  Strong back, weak mind. I guess there is always hope but I wouldn't count on it.  Maybe one in a million make it.  Those are terrible odds. 

 

I really hate to see drug addiction or mental diseases conflated with being a "guy with a weak mind". 

 

The odds of beating a substance abuse addiction are considerably better than one in a million.  Not good, but far better than that.

[Mister Defense]

10 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

He shouldn’t even be in the nfl.  I’m all for forgiveness but this dude has been scum for his entire life.  There are a billion other better people to have a pity party for.  

 

I don't think anyone is calling for pity, but just that Incognito remains on the right track and is successful from here on out in life.

 

While he played for the Bills he was a high quality guard, maybe our best offensive lineman. In fact, he was an important part of the first Bills team to make the playoffs in 17 years.  He was also respected by teammates .

 

Why wouldn't every Bills fan wish Richie Incognito well?

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Bring Ritchie back!!

 

 

[Utah John]

The Bills had another even greater player who was an even worse human being:  OJ Simpson.

 

Incognito was the best damned guard we've had here in decades.  It was the right thing to do to let him go when the Bills did, because they could see the bad times ahead.  It's a real shame that all that talent is linked to a screwed up personality.  Maybe it is mental illness, the key word being illness, and I hope for his sake he can at least control the symptoms.

7 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I really hate to see drug addiction or mental diseases conflated with being a "guy with a weak mind". 

 

The odds of beating a substance abuse addiction are considerably better than one in a million.  Not good, but far better than that.

If I had taken all the oxycontin that was prescribed for me after hip replacement surgery, I'd be a heroin addict today.  It isn't a question of a weak mind, it's a question of getting hooked on something designed to get you hooked.

[gflande1]

 

[timekills17]

13 hours ago, Limeaid said:

Lots of people have serious mental issues and are able to get repeated chances despite them.

 

I worked with a brilliant engineer who was extremely asocial but was able to do what no one else could do.  He was able for us to keep contract despite contract officer constantly passing our work to competition because "customer paid for it" but he was able to stay ahead of the competition despite this.

Since I was only one who could work with him I became his handler.  I was rewriting his documentation making it capable of being understood by someone not so brilliant and doing technical editing. I also become person who did interaction with him with anyone who he had issues with which was almost everyone.

I went on vacation for 2 weeks and when I came back I asked "Where is Bob?" and found out he had a blowup on a corporate big wig and was thrown (almost literally) out.

 

I worked at a government job and there was a task item which was not getting done so it was handed off to me.   On my first day on task the government point of contact, an E14 or E15, came to lab and started screaming curses at me as being incompetent and when he was tired of yelling at me I said "Jack, I was just assigned this task this morning. I will get you a report on completed and uncompleted items by end of day."  He was really shocked not realizing that they person who he was screaming at was just assigned task an hour ago and he said "Oh good, carry on".  I later found out he acts that way to all contractors getting some fired (Technically told by prime "your services are no longer required.") and some physical acts which were settled by insurance with him recommended for consoling and protected by union from being fired being given several paid hiatuses.  That is right he got paid for time off and a contractor got let go at no fault with 2 weeks notice.  This had been going on for 15 years with him being moved from program to program and once to different agency.  To me it sounds like Catholic church and defrocked priests.

 

Does he deserve to be able to play and who decides that?  Teams do based on what the player is able to perform and how having him affects locker room, sales, etc. not sanctimonious media people and fans who could not get a job working in locker room.  If it bothers you that much then don't buy tickets and gear, do not watch football and go create a blog.

 

Ostroski seems to need the physical bonding of football and a locker room with both strong leadership in teammates and coaches to do and be well.  He probably also needs more contract requirements including oversight than NFLPA would allow and hopefully his agent is recommending he get privately.  I hope he will stay on medications and find some outlet for his issues.

 

 

Not that this has anything to do with Ritchie, but I feel compelled to expound on some of what I feel are misconceptions that you expressed.

One - minor, but there is no such thing as an "E14 or E15" DoD employee. I assume you meant their pay grade, which typically is "GS" plus their number - which can go up to 15 before reaching "Senior Executive Staff" or SES level. Although they are NOT the same, there is a pay grade to military rank equivalent to assist with appropriate position where a GS-15 is equated to an O6 (Colonel or Captain in the Navy), a GS-14 is equated to an O-5 (LTC/Lt Col/Cmdr) and an SES sits at the O7 (General officer) level.

 

Two - A contractor is never fired or let go by the military. It's illegal. If a contractor was let go with two weeks notice that was completely on the contracted company. The only time the government can impact is when something was done illegally by a specific person working for the contract (typically sexual harassment or assault) and then that person can be banned from working at a location or country due to US agreement with said country (if a SOFA [Status of Forces Agreement] is in place) or US law. It is still up to the contracted agency what is done with that person however. The only exception to what happens to the person is if they are arrested (of course.)

 

If your contracted company told you one of your fellow contractors was "let go"/fired by the military/DoD/government - they're lying. It's one of the biggest challenges with hiring a contracted agency. The government pays for the SERVICE. How the service is provided, i.e. how many people they decide to hire, where they put them, etc, can't be dictated by the government.

Edited November 10, 2019 by timekills17