Jim Kelly (93) vs Josh Allen (19)

[Bangarang]

7 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

Well, I'd say you are more than qualified to know one when you see one...

Oh burn

[C.Biscuit97]

3 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

And seven of Lamar Jackson's TDs came in the 1st two games. Since then, 5 TDS, 5 INTS, 4 Fumbles. But hey, he is at least in the discussion for League MVP.

Beating an undefeated team with 3 tds helps. 

 

And this is completely misleading.  All qbs from Kelly’s eras laugh at how easy it to play qb now compared when they played. The rules completely favor the offense.

Edited November 5, 2019 by C.Biscuit97

[H2o]

4 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

And seven of Lamar Jackson's TDs came in the 1st two games. Since then, 5 TDS, 5 INTS, 4 Fumbles. But hey, he is at least in the discussion for League MVP.

Yes, but Lamar's been getting his RB on in that time so that makes him worthy of league MVP discussion. 

[C.Biscuit97]

1 minute ago, H2o said:

Yes, but Lamar's been getting his RB on in that time so that makes him worthy of league MVP discussion. 

It’s weird how some of you try to put down other QBs. If Allen was completing 64% of his passes, averaging 300 yards/ game, with 18 tds, coming off destroying the Pats, we build a statue for him. 

 

Why is it so hard to Jackson has been really good this year?

[Nextmanup]

Let's stop this nonsense right now.

 

Every poster here would wave their magic wand, if they could, and swap Josh Allen at his current age for Jim Kelly at the same age.

 

Am I right?

 

Thought so.

 

 

[billsfan1959]

1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Beating an undefeated team with 3 tds helps. 

 

Yep, it does; however, he did most of that damage with his feet. Nothing wrong with that - but, as a passer, he is closer to the bottom of the league than the top. When Allen was doiong that last year, the same people applauding Lamar now were saying that Allen needed to become a better QB with his arm then.

 

Just pointing out the fact that he doesn't take near the criticism that Allen takes as a passer, even though, since the second game of the season he has steadily declined. 

[C.Biscuit97]

1 minute ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

Yep, it does; however, he did most of that damage with his feet. Nothing wrong with that - but, as a passer, he is closer to the bottom of the league than the top. When Allen was doiong that last year, the same people applauding Lamar now were saying that Allen needed to become a better QB with his arm then.

 

Just pointing out the fact that he doesn't take near the criticism that Allen takes as a passer, even though, since the second game of the season he has steadily declined. 

Jackson’s best receiver has been hurt for like 3 weeks.  And you can’t be serious about Jackson not getting criticism.  He was a Heisman winning qb who people wanted to switch positions.  

 

 

[blacklabel]

34 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Back then Kelly's stats looked good?

 

How old are you?

 

642. Don't ask again, fella.

[NoHuddleKelly12]

I'm all aboard the Josh Allen Express--he will get where we need him to be in order to remain the face of our franchise for many years to come. However, I feel like this type of snippet comparison is misleading as pointed out upthread. 

[TroutDog]

32 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

Anytime someone compares QB stats to one from nearly 3 decades ago I know they are an idiot.

 

What should we take from this?

I think it still has value but not for what the OP is saying. Instead, it’s still reasonable to look at how QB’s progress after coming to the league. Even the best (Peyton more recently) had rough starts. 
 

Most positions simply need time to acclimate to the NFL level...although there are outliers. 

[dollars 2 donuts]

Just FYI, as well, since why the hell not.

 

since coming back from injury last year Allen is 9-5 as a starter, with 18 Td passes, plus 9 rushing tds for a total of 27 against 14 picks.

 

I didn’t look up the fumbles because I didn’t feel like it.

[freddyjj]

Some transparency here please, here are actual stats from Jim Kelly's first 8 games in 1993

 

Jim Kelly 1993 Season								Passing
Rk		G#	Tm		Opp	Result	GS	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	Int	Rate	Sk	Yds	Y/A	AY/A
1		1	BUF		NWE	W 38-14	*	13	22	59%	167	4	1	103.6	1	10	7.59	9.18
2		2	BUF	@	DAL	W 13-10	*	16	27	59%	155	1	1	72.3	4	26	5.74	4.81
3		3	BUF		MIA	L 13-22	*	20	39	51%	199	1	2	53.3	4	23	5.1	3.31
4		4	BUF		NYG	W 17-14	*	14	25	56%	142	1	1	69.1	5	30	5.68	4.68
5		5	BUF		HOU	W 35-7	*	15	25	60%	247	3	0	132.8	2	6	9.88	12.28
6		6	BUF	@	NYJ	W 19-10	*	22	35	63%	224	0	2	57.3	1	8	6.4	3.83
7		7	BUF		WAS	W 24-10	*	18	24	75%	238	2	1	116.3	0	0	9.92	9.71
8		8	BUF	@	NWE	W 13-10	*	29	46	63%	317	1	0	90.6	2	19	6.89	7.33
	1st 8 games							147	243	60%	1689	13	8	86.9	19	122	7.2	6.9

 

Different era back then.  bills were 7-1 after 8 weeks in 1993.   Interesting note that in back half of year, 1993 Bills were 5-3 and Jim only threw 5 TDs against 10 INTs in those last 8 games.  

 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

7 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

I'm all aboard the Josh Allen Express--he will get where we need him to be in order to remain the face of our franchise for many years to come. However, I feel like this type of snippet comparison is misleading as pointed out upthread. 

agreed 

Two different era's 

 

But it is still a cool graphic .

 

 

[BillsFanSD]

12 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

Let's stop this nonsense right now.

 

Every poster here would wave their magic wand, if they could, and swap Josh Allen at his current age for Jim Kelly at the same age.

 

Am I right?

 

Thought so.

 

 

Yes, I would swap Josh Allen -- a work in progress -- for a guy who I already know will go on to be a first-ballot HOFer.  I would also swap Josh Allen for a 2nd-year Dan Marino, John Elway, Joe Montana, Steve Young, etc.

 

That doesn't mean I'm not optimistic about Allen.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

4 minutes ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

Just FYI, as well, since why the hell not.

 

since coming back from injury last year Allen is 9-5 as a starter, with 18 Td passes, plus 9 rushing tds for a total of 27 against 14 picks.

 

I didn’t look up the fumbles because I didn’t feel like it.

 

7 this season ... lost 4 ?? 

3 last season 

 

Edited November 5, 2019 by SlimShady'sGhost

[Boatdrinks]

2 minutes ago, freddyjj said:

Some transparency here please, here are actual stats from Jim Kelly's first 8 games in 1993

 

Jim Kelly 1993 Season								Passing
Rk		G#	Tm		Opp	Result	GS	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	Int	Rate	Sk	Yds	Y/A	AY/A
1		1	BUF		NWE	W 38-14	*	13	22	59%	167	4	1	103.6	1	10	7.59	9.18
2		2	BUF	@	DAL	W 13-10	*	16	27	59%	155	1	1	72.3	4	26	5.74	4.81
3		3	BUF		MIA	L 13-22	*	20	39	51%	199	1	2	53.3	4	23	5.1	3.31
4		4	BUF		NYG	W 17-14	*	14	25	56%	142	1	1	69.1	5	30	5.68	4.68
5		5	BUF		HOU	W 35-7	*	15	25	60%	247	3	0	132.8	2	6	9.88	12.28
6		6	BUF	@	NYJ	W 19-10	*	22	35	63%	224	0	2	57.3	1	8	6.4	3.83
7		7	BUF		WAS	W 24-10	*	18	24	75%	238	2	1	116.3	0	0	9.92	9.71
8		8	BUF	@	NWE	W 13-10	*	29	46	63%	317	1	0	90.6	2	19	6.89	7.33
	1st 8 games							147	243	60%	1689	13	8	86.9	19	122	7.2	6.9

 

Different era back then.  bills were 7-1 after 8 weeks in 1993.   Interesting note that in back half of year, 1993 Bills were 5-3 and Jim only threw 5 TDs against 10 INTs in those last 8 games.  

 

Yeah, ‘93 was not a great year for the no huddle iirc. It was being figured out by DCs, and the Bills OL had started to decline. I think Reed was out for awhile too, leaving Brooks to pick up the slack. It was the beginning of the end, really. Seems like so long ago, and it’s incredible that the Bills really haven’t had a good QB in 22 years since JK retired. Brady’s been starting for the better part of 19 seasons. Ugh!

[gsx95red]

4 minutes ago, freddyjj said:

Some transparency here please, here are actual stats from Jim Kelly's first 8 games in 1993

 

Jim Kelly 1993 Season								Passing
Rk		G#	Tm		Opp	Result	GS	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	Int	Rate	Sk	Yds	Y/A	AY/A
1		1	BUF		NWE	W 38-14	*	13	22	59%	167	4	1	103.6	1	10	7.59	9.18
2		2	BUF	@	DAL	W 13-10	*	16	27	59%	155	1	1	72.3	4	26	5.74	4.81
3		3	BUF		MIA	L 13-22	*	20	39	51%	199	1	2	53.3	4	23	5.1	3.31
4		4	BUF		NYG	W 17-14	*	14	25	56%	142	1	1	69.1	5	30	5.68	4.68
5		5	BUF		HOU	W 35-7	*	15	25	60%	247	3	0	132.8	2	6	9.88	12.28
6		6	BUF	@	NYJ	W 19-10	*	22	35	63%	224	0	2	57.3	1	8	6.4	3.83
7		7	BUF		WAS	W 24-10	*	18	24	75%	238	2	1	116.3	0	0	9.92	9.71
8		8	BUF	@	NWE	W 13-10	*	29	46	63%	317	1	0	90.6	2	19	6.89	7.33
	1st 8 games							147	243	60%	1689	13	8	86.9	19	122	7.2	6.9

 

Different era back then.  bills were 7-1 after 8 weeks in 1993.   Interesting note that in back half of year, 1993 Bills were 5-3 and Jim only threw 5 TDs against 10 INTs in those last 8 games.  

 

 

Thank you for copying in the game logs!

My original point by the original post/meme whatever you want to call it was that is was completely INCORRECT.

 

These game logs are JK's first 8 games - played through Week 10 because of the 2 bye's in 1993. Now it's fair to compare, but if you want to do that makes sure you count the 10 fumbles (3 lost by Allen), all painful to scoring points, but to Allen's defense better count his 4 RUSHING Td's too against Kelly....

[ngbills]

6 minutes ago, freddyjj said:

Some transparency here please, here are actual stats from Jim Kelly's first 8 games in 1993

 

Jim Kelly 1993 Season								Passing
Rk		G#	Tm		Opp	Result	GS	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	Int	Rate	Sk	Yds	Y/A	AY/A
1		1	BUF		NWE	W 38-14	*	13	22	59%	167	4	1	103.6	1	10	7.59	9.18
2		2	BUF	@	DAL	W 13-10	*	16	27	59%	155	1	1	72.3	4	26	5.74	4.81
3		3	BUF		MIA	L 13-22	*	20	39	51%	199	1	2	53.3	4	23	5.1	3.31
4		4	BUF		NYG	W 17-14	*	14	25	56%	142	1	1	69.1	5	30	5.68	4.68
5		5	BUF		HOU	W 35-7	*	15	25	60%	247	3	0	132.8	2	6	9.88	12.28
6		6	BUF	@	NYJ	W 19-10	*	22	35	63%	224	0	2	57.3	1	8	6.4	3.83
7		7	BUF		WAS	W 24-10	*	18	24	75%	238	2	1	116.3	0	0	9.92	9.71
8		8	BUF	@	NWE	W 13-10	*	29	46	63%	317	1	0	90.6	2	19	6.89	7.33
	1st 8 games							147	243	60%	1689	13	8	86.9	19	122	7.2	6.9

 

Different era back then.  bills were 7-1 after 8 weeks in 1993.   Interesting note that in back half of year, 1993 Bills were 5-3 and Jim only threw 5 TDs against 10 INTs in those last 8 games.  

 

Was going to say that those stats were wrong. Thanks for posting the correct ones. Though as many have said you cant compare 30 year old stats. Completely different times. 

[ILBillsfan]

29 minutes ago, Virgil said:

I don’t think those are great comparisons this year.  
 

Brady hasn’t been himself and his defense is scoring more touchdowns that some offenses.  He doesn’t need to do as much. 
 

Lamar still isn’t a true QB to me yet, no matter how effective that offense may be.  People eventually adapt to Roman and shut him down. 
 

Jimmy is a decent comparison, but they also are sporting a great D and 3 headed rushing attack.  
 

But I do see the point you are trying to make 

If those reasons are valid for those guys why can there not be similar reasons behind Josh's?  I guess I don't get the cherry picking when a person brings up comparisons.  I do understand not comparing stats form 30 years ago but then this was posted and its not valid because of the reasons.  C;mon man

[billsfan1959]

13 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Jackson’s best receiver has been hurt for like 3 weeks.  And you can’t be serious about Jackson not getting criticism.  He was a Heisman winning qb who people wanted to switch positions.  

 

I was not talking about when he came into the league. I have been talking about this year and, so far, he has been the darling of the NFL and talked about for League MVP. The truth is, over his last 5 games, he has been averaging 190 yards per game passing with 5 TDs, 5 INTs, and 4 Fumbles. He has increased his carries during that time to 15 per game and 93 yards per game. I like Jackson and, like Allen, I think he is progressing. However, those are not numbers worthy of League MVP, particularly at QB.

 

He has primarily been doing it with his legs over the last six weeks. Like I said, nothing wrong with thta as he is doing what he needs to do to win. But, let's be honest here. When ALlen was doing that same thing over the last six games of last year, there were a lot of critics, and you were as vocal as anyone, saying he needed to become a better passer and not rely on his legs, and that it was not a sustainable way of playing QB. 

 

I'm not any more critical of Jackson than I am about Allen. But, I am consistent.