Jordan Phillips earns start; Oliver only plays 18 def snaps vs Redskins

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

FWIW, this is what @ScottLaw is referring to with Edmunds. 
 

His hesitation here is a killer. The BACKSIDE GUARD was able to make the block here because he’s playing too much on his heels and not playing downhill quick enough. IMO he should have ran across and THROUGH THAT guard’s face. You see Milano scraping (he hesitates too and is late to the play) and had Edmunds gotten across the face of the Guard, I would imagine he’d be in position to close that gap down, possibly allowing Milano the time to get there. 
 

McD’s one gap defense only works if everyone truly honors their gap. The hesitation comes from lack of trust. In this scenario, had both (or either) Edmunds and Milano  been down hill and more decisive, I think this dead at the LOS. 
 

this is just one example, but the 250 lb MLB has a tendency to play too often like a 150 lb player.

You can see it in his feet. He's so quick and light, like a dancer. Makes him really special in coverage and moving laterally. He needs to learn when to hammer those steps down and present himself downhill on run gapping. 

 

For me, he's still very green and has a ton of responsibility for reads and it causes him to overthink. There's really no reason here to hesitate, that's clearly his gap and he needs to stick his shoulder inside through the block and fill (fwiw he sheds almost immediately while Alexander gets wiped out). I think he gets caught on the FB misdirection and does that little stutterstep midstride...loses all power but he's long enough to get off the block pretty quickly.

 

[Saxum]

5 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

I some times have to laugh when it comes to fans perceptions and memories.

Kyle Williams did not set the league on fire as a rookie, in fact he didn't have a sack until halfway thru his 2nd season.

Oliver still has a lot of learning and growing to do but to even talk about bust after 8 games is just reactionary.

 

What are we going to do with these people Augie?  LOL

 

Some are just Boca Loco and all you can do is slip some cyanide into their morning bitter.

[HappyDays]

Oliver is somewhat underrated on this board, Phillips is somewhat overrated. Phillips is better at finishing plays in the pass rush but personally I think Oliver is better against the run and not much worse against the pass.

[Saxum]

1 hour ago, Real McCoy said:

I have no issues with the pick of Oliver and still think he's just so raw and will develop. Right now though Jordan deserves the spot as our feature DT, like Devin deserves to be the featured RB in our system. I'd much rather see the Bills plug him somewhere on this line, he has a burst/quickness you can't teach. I really don't want to see him only getting 20% of D snaps. He needs to play now, on the end or center I can careless. Hell throw him at LB, the dude has that kind of talent. 

 

 

 

Certainly he has some potential as LB especially in goal line situations.

[Royale with Cheese]

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

Dude what the ***** are you talking about??

 

I rewatch each games once or twice throughout the week. I rewatched the game last night. I’m guessing his snaps aren’t decreasing because they don’t have a better option behind him..... same goes for Edmunds. 

I don’t understand how you’re not picking this up.  Wait I do....because you’re evading the question.

[Luka]

Oliver is playing hero ball from the DT position. He is focused on making big plays, splash plays. He's a young guy who is going to have to focus more on his technique and assignments than he did in college.

[ColoradoBills]

1 hour ago, Limeaid said:

 

Some are just Boca Loco and all you can do is slip some cyanide into their morning bitter.

 

Some might say a bit of an extreme measure BUT it does have many useful applications!

[T master]

Phillips has been playing up to his draft position & i hope Beane signs him he'll be a really good player for the Bills for a few years & when Harry gets back the inside of the D line will be strong for a while to come !!

 

[Paulus]

Lmao... Time to replace Star with Oliver, tbh.

[vincec]

This thread is crazy. Everyone has watched the film multiple times and, depending on what post or tweet you read, they've found that:

 

Oliver and Lotoulelei are the best DTs on the team OR they are the worst DTs on the team;

Oliver is a pass rushing specialist who struggles against the run OR he is a run defense specialist who is struggling vs the pass;

Oliver is playing better each week and is just unlucky to be behind Phillips OR he is getting worse each week and being phased out of defensive rotation; and

Oliver is a major bust OR he is on the precipice of greatness.

Edited November 5, 2019 by vincec

[Big Blitz]

Scherff might be one of the 3 best Guards in the league.  

 

Any clips of our DTs against him I'd love to see.  

[Big Blitz]

6 hours ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

FWIW, this is what @ScottLaw is referring to with Edmunds. 
 

His hesitation here is a killer. The BACKSIDE GUARD was able to make the block here because he’s playing too much on his heels and not playing downhill quick enough. IMO he should have ran across and THROUGH THAT guard’s face. You see Milano scraping (he hesitates too and is late to the play) and had Edmunds gotten across the face of the Guard, I would imagine he’d be in position to close that gap down, possibly allowing Milano the time to get there. 
 

McD’s one gap defense only works if everyone truly honors their gap. The hesitation comes from lack of trust. In this scenario, had both (or either) Edmunds and Milano  been down hill and more decisive, I think this dead at the LOS. 
 

this is just one example, but the 250 lb MLB has a tendency to play too often like a 150 lb player.

 

 

All I see is Star looking awful.

[John from Riverside]

7 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Dude what the ***** are you talking about??

 

I rewatch each games once or twice throughout the week. I rewatched the game last night. I’m guessing his snaps aren’t decreasing because they don’t have a better option behind him..... same goes for Edmunds. 

Then your not objectively watching the film

5 hours ago, Luka said:

Oliver is playing hero ball from the DT position. He is focused on making big plays, splash plays. He's a young guy who is going to have to focus more on his technique and assignments than he did in college.

What exactly do you think his assignment is?

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Should have been all along, don't understand why Oliver got start over Phillips who, has been our best Dlineman .

 

 

 

 

[YoloinOhio]

 

[Luka]

6 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Then your not objectively watching the film

What exactly do you think his assignment is?

 

Let me call Fraizer real quick, we'll go over some of the calls on the all 22, I'll get back to you... ?

 

You can clearly see on a lot of plays that Oliver is clearly more concerned with beating his man directly into the backfield. On one of Adrian's
big runs, Oliver was pushing his man back instead of getting off the block and filling the gap. You see him turn and reach for AP as he realizes he's running past him. Reduction in snaps pretty much supports the fact that while a freak athlete, he needs to be more disciplined in his assignments.
 

[oldmanfan]

6 minutes ago, Luka said:

 

Let me call Fraizer real quick, we'll go over some of the calls on the all 22, I'll get back to you... ?

 

You can clearly see on a lot of plays that Oliver is clearly more concerned with beating his man directly into the backfield. On one of Adrian's
big runs, Oliver was pushing his man back instead of getting off the block and filling the gap. You see him turn and reach for AP as he realizes he's running past him. Reduction in snaps pretty much supports the fact that while a freak athlete, he needs to be more disciplined in his assignments.
 

I think this is pretty accurate.  I rewatched the second half last night, and thee are a few things to keep in mind with the hysteria surrounding the run game defense in the first half.  One, it was really 4 plays that Peterson got loose on.  Second, it is Adrian Peterson after all.  Third, I don't pretend to know which gaps different guys are supposed to occupy and so on.  But there were some things Is aw with the uneducated eye.  One is that Star for the most part occupied blockers.  Sometimes he got pushed back a bit more than you'd want a stout DT to have happen though.  Another was that Phillips also got handled more than I thought originally.  Oliver?  His quickness was a disadvantage at times; on the one run where Peterson got about 20 yards cutting back against the pursuit, Oliver was 5 yards into the backfield and took himself out of the play.  Other times he held position but was not able to disengage from the blocker to make a play.  He'll have to work on that.

 

Moose Johnson made a point that the Bills in general the first half weren't disengaging from blockers to make plays.  That to me speaks to a physical thing, but McD and staff who know a lot more obviously think it's a scheme thing, and after they changed it up second half it was obviously effective.  I still think that line play ultimately comes down to winning physical battles (like to 3rd down play where Gore got stuffed right before Josh scored?  Morse got shoved straight back, got completely whipped physically).  I'd like to see our defenders win more physical battles up front.

[DCofNC]

12 hours ago, Luka said:

Oliver is playing hero ball from the DT position. He is focused on making big plays, splash plays. He's a young guy who is going to have to focus more on his technique and assignments than he did in college.

No, thats really more Phillips.  I haven't seen Oliver llay "hero ball" at all.  Phillips is constantly up the field and it can cost him, Oliver quite frequently ties up 2 blockers while Star gets mauled by one.. which interestingly is thebreal problem with Star, if he's doubled, he's a beast, man him up and he has no balance to fight it.

[John from Riverside]

56 minutes ago, Luka said:

 

Let me call Fraizer real quick, we'll go over some of the calls on the all 22, I'll get back to you... ?

 

You can clearly see on a lot of plays that Oliver is clearly more concerned with beating his man directly into the backfield. On one of Adrian's
big runs, Oliver was pushing his man back instead of getting off the block and filling the gap. You see him turn and reach for AP as he realizes he's running past him. Reduction in snaps pretty much supports the fact that while a freak athlete, he needs to be more disciplined in his assignments.
 

Once again what do you think a 3 tech dt does in this defense?

[Luka]

3 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Once again what do you think a 3 tech dt does in this defense?

 

Quote

Oliver was pushing his man back instead of getting off the block and filling the gap

 

The bigger question is, what the hell do you think he's supposed to be doing? I love people like you. You ask a question, it gets answered so you ask the same question again. Gap discipline. The coaches have said it, it's a problem. I've even given you an example but please, by all means, ask the same question again. When you get cut back to 18 snaps, I'm guessing you aren't fulfilling your assignments.