Sunday Nite Football Patriots*** at Ravens 8:20 ET NBC

[BringBackOrton]

Just now, Livinginthepast said:

Yeah I was paying attention, vs the Pats Jackson was 17/23 for 163 and 1 TD, NO INTs with 16 rushes for 61 yards with 2 TDS and he WON, Allen was 13/28 for 153 and  3 INTs with 5 rushes for 26 yards and 1 TD and he LOST.  How many passing yards per game he got vs what Allen got vs the Pats are irrelevant. The key thing for me is that Jackson rose to the challenge and defeated the Champions in a high pressure statement game. Unfortunately Josh hasn't done that yet. I hope Josh can learn from his mistakes and progress like Jackson seems to have done this year.

Colin Kaepernick beat the Pats once upon a time too. 

[BringBackOrton]

9 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

 

 

 

I rarely agree with BringBackOrton (no offense intended ); however, I think the analyses on Jackson tends to be a bit on the rosy side and I am not sure why.

 

He started out well this year. Over his first 3 games, he averaged 287 yds per game with 7 TDs, 0 INTs, and 0 Fumbles. He also averaged 9 rushes and 53 yds per game with one TD.

 

Over his last five games, he has averaged 190 yds per game with 5 TDs, 5 INTs, and 4 Fumbles. He has gotten worse in pretty much every passing metric (and it is not just stat reading, I have actually watched 3 of those 5 games - and he did not look good in the passing game). What has incresed over the last five games are the numbers in his rushing game. He has averaged 15 rushes and 93 yds per game with 4 TDs.

 

I think, his play right now, from a passing perspective, is closer to the bottom of the league than the top. He is making plays; however, at the moment, they are primarily with his legs and I am not sure his overall success is sustainable in the style of play I am seeing right now.

 

What I will say is this: Like Allen, I think it is too soon to reach any definitive conclusions and he is winning.

Tell em son! Talk. That. *****!

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, PatsFanNH said:

The Pats are able be run on. (Although that move by Jackson was scary! ) the simple fact is outside of the Ravens no other team has the patience just to run the ball constantly. Even the Ravens would have probably lost if Edelman doesn’t fumble. (That’s a 14 point swing.)  But yes they suck against the run.. but there is no other team left that scares me for running like them.. I mean Option plays etc  like a college offense. 

 

Please don't get me wrong, I think the Pats have a legit very good defense and including a reasonable run D.  The reason other teams haven't run the ball constantly is that usually the other teams have been playing from behind, but also because the Pats have been able to shut it down.  They may not have faced a Grade A Run Game before, I grant you that.

 

The thing that annoys me about the Pats D is all the over-the-top comparisons it's been drawing  from commentators.  Comparisons to legendary top defenses simply aren't legit when it's only halfway through the season and the Pats have defeated teams with a combined record of 15-43.

 

You are right, though, there isn't another team like the Ravens for variety of run game (and LJax is SICK) but the Pats run D should face stronger tests the next 4 weeks with the Eagles, Texans, Cowboys, and Chiefs.

Don't do the "even the Ravens would have lost if only one play were different" schtick.  It's not legit.  It can be played in reverse - the Pats wouldn't have gotten back in it if Cyrus Jones doesn't muff a punt giving them a TD etc.

[IDBillzFan]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

He’s throwing for 226 yards a game. That’s not triple option. Honestly, why are people doubling down on their bad pre-draft opinions? As of today he’s ABSOLUTELY the furthest along of the 1st round QBs from last year. He’s an MVP candidate at this point (not that I think he will win). He’s 12-3 as a starter.

 

I think his larger point is that it's just not sustainable. Jackson is speedy fast, and the designed run plays with him had NE* puking down each other's throat most of the night.

 

But there's a reason running backs retire faster than QBs, and no matter how amazing Jackson is, the body can't take all those hits for a long period of time before Jackson-designed run plays have to be removed from the playbook.

[BringBackOrton]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Please don't get me wrong, I think the Pats have a legit very good defense and including a reasonable run D.  The reason other teams haven't run the ball constantly is that usually the other teams have been playing from behind, but also because the Pats have been able to shut it down.  They may not have faced a Grade A Run Game before, I grant you that.

 

The thing that annoys me about the Pats D is all the over-the-top comparisons it's been drawing  from commentators.  Comparisons to legendary top defenses simply aren't legit when it's only halfway through the season and the Pats have defeated teams with a combined record of 15-43.

 

You are right, though, there isn't another team like the Ravens for variety of run game (and LJax is SICK) but the Pats run D should face stronger tests the next 4 weeks with the Eagles, Texans, Cowboys, and Chiefs.

Don't do the "even the Ravens would have lost if only one play were different" schtick.  It's not legit.  It can be played in reverse - the Pats wouldn't have gotten back in it if Cyrus Jones doesn't muff a punt giving them a TD etc.

I mean, there was a point when the defense was like 4-2 in terms of points produced. They were obliterating offenses and scoring off TO’s. And it was the Pats. I think the media coverage was a little over the top but not necessarily unreasonable.

 

The 2015 Broncos D was getting comparisons around a similar time period IIRC. It’s already week 9! The season is past halfway.

[Kirby Jackson]

Just now, IDBillzFan said:

 

I think his larger point is that it's just not sustainable. Jackson is speedy fast, and the designed run plays with him had NE* puking down each other's throat most of the night.

 

But there's a reason running backs retire faster than QBs, and no matter how amazing Jackson is, the body can't take all those hits for a long period of time before Jackson-designed run plays have to be removed from the playbook.

I keep asking, “why isn’t it sustainable?” Please don’t say anything about RG3 and his brutal injury. They are different players and in different schemes (at least where RG3 was). This offense was bad a year ago when he took over. Now they are good. They are averaging more PPG 31.4 than anyone in the league. They are averaging the 2nd most yards a game and rarely turn it over (Lamar has 5 turnovers on the season). 
 

I value efficiency. They epitomize efficiency. Lamar is the undisputed leader of one of, if not the, best offenses in football. He’s certainly not a “wide receiver playing QB” as Bill Polian once claimed. 
 

https://www.ftw.usatoday.com/2019/11/nfl-lamar-jackson-pocket-stats-patriots/amp

[Don Otreply]

2 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Remember when some people thought Lamar Jackson couldn’t play QB? That was pretty stupid at the time and WAY stupider now.

“Not bad for a running back”

a phrase used by Lamar himself a few weeks back, good on him, it’s looking like he and Josh are the most successful out of that class so far. Gotta like any team that beats The patsies, at least for s day or so.., ?

Edited November 4, 2019 by Don Otreply

[IDBillzFan]

1 minute ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I keep asking, “why isn’t it sustainable?”

 

I can only repeat what I just told you: he's being used as a running back, and running back careers are the shortest in the NFL. His body won't be able to sustain those hits AND remain under center for the next 10 years.

 

And look, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe he can some Bradyjuice* and have a long career as a running back/qb, but the odds aren't in his favor.

[BringBackOrton]

8 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I keep asking, “why isn’t it sustainable?” Please don’t say anything about RG3 and his brutal injury. They are different players and in different schemes (at least where RG3 was). This offense was bad a year ago when he took over. Now they are good. They are averaging more PPG 31.4 than anyone in the league. They are averaging the 2nd most yards a game and rarely turn it over (Lamar has 5 turnovers on the season). 
 

I value efficiency. They epitomize efficiency. Lamar is the undisputed leader of one of, if not the, best offenses in football. He’s certainly not a “wide receiver playing QB” as Bill Polian once claimed. 
 

https://www.ftw.usatoday.com/2019/11/nfl-lamar-jackson-pocket-stats-patriots/amp

Your efficiency metric certainly predicted sustained success for Tyrod Taylor. He’s efficient on a beach in LA now.

[Boatdrinks]

59 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I keep asking, “why isn’t it sustainable?” Please don’t say anything about RG3 and his brutal injury. They are different players and in different schemes (at least where RG3 was). This offense was bad a year ago when he took over. Now they are good. They are averaging more PPG 31.4 than anyone in the league. They are averaging the 2nd most yards a game and rarely turn it over (Lamar has 5 turnovers on the season). 
 

I value efficiency. They epitomize efficiency. Lamar is the undisputed leader of one of, if not the, best offenses in football. He’s certainly not a “wide receiver playing QB” as Bill Polian once claimed. 
 

https://www.ftw.usatoday.com/2019/11/nfl-lamar-jackson-pocket-stats-patriots/amp

It’s sustainable as long as Jackson is the best athlete on the field, and as long as he can play that style without a major injury. The Ravens aren’t an RG3 situation, they’re running an offense designed around Jackson. If he has to be a more traditional QB in a more conventional offense it might not be so efficient. We don’t know, because we haven’t seen it. I find it very entertaining to watch, especially when it defeats the Pats*.As an aside, it’s laughable how little talk of this game has been on GMFB. That show is usually Pats every ten minutes or so in some sort of discussion. Now when I want to hear talk about them ( they lost ) it’s crickets. Bunch of Pat loving dill holes on that show. 

Edited November 4, 2019 by Boatdrinks

[dave mcbride]

1 hour ago, IDBillzFan said:

 

I think his larger point is that it's just not sustainable. Jackson is speedy fast, and the designed run plays with him had NE* puking down each other's throat most of the night.

 

But there's a reason running backs retire faster than QBs, and no matter how amazing Jackson is, the body can't take all those hits for a long period of time before Jackson-designed run plays have to be removed from the playbook.

As I said elsewhere, he ran for 4,132 yards in three seasons (39 games) in college and never missed a snap. And he did it in the ACC, a big-boy conference.  I think we should all consider the possibility that the standard model may not apply to him. 

Edited November 4, 2019 by dave mcbride

[buffalobillswin]

13 hours ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

You Allen haters are the worst of the worst.  He’s not even playing right now and it’s open season on him.  Get lost!

Everyone love my qb please!!! 

[IDBillzFan]

48 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

As I said elsewhere, he ran for 4,132 yards in three seasons (39 games) in college and never missed a snap. And he did it in the ACC, a big-boy conference.  I think we should all consider the possibility that the standard model may not apply to him. 

 

It wouldn't be the first time I was wrong about a quarterback. And as long as can spend the next 10 years beating the Pats*, I'm good.

[Kirby Jackson]

1 hour ago, BringBackOrton said:

Your efficiency metric certainly predicted sustained success for Tyrod Taylor. He’s efficient on a beach in LA now.

Tyrod is 23-21 as a starter. Efficiency wins, he just needed to make more plays. Lamar is efficient and makes plays. He’s 12-3. It really is a bad day to be doubting Lamar. They are talking about him as an MVP candidate and some people are still doubting his competency as a QB.

[Solomon Grundy]

4 hours ago, Gray Beard said:

People who compare LJ to JA because they are both young and mobile should take into consideration that LJ is a quick “water bug” runner, and JA is a straight ahead power runner. It’s a little easier for a water bug runner to make something out of nothing without absorbing as much hard contact. 

Allen is more elusive than you think. They can absolutely be used with the same concept 

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

As I said elsewhere, he ran for 4,132 yards in three seasons (39 games) in college and never missed a snap. And he did it in the ACC, a big-boy conference.  I think we should all consider the possibility that the standard model may not apply to him. 

Let’s not forget his passing yardage?

[BringBackOrton]

37 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Tyrod is 23-21 as a starter. Efficiency wins, he just needed to make more plays. Lamar is efficient and makes plays. He’s 12-3. It really is a bad day to be doubting Lamar. They are talking about him as an MVP candidate and some people are still doubting his competency as a QB.

Tyrod isn’t a starter lol.

 

I’m glad Lamar is playing well. He is clearly the driver of the offense. I only said he needs to sustain it. Russell Wilson did. Lots of other guys didn’t.

[Kirby Jackson]

1 hour ago, BringBackOrton said:

Tyrod isn’t a starter lol.

 

I’m glad Lamar is playing well. He is clearly the driver of the offense. I only said he needs to sustain it. Russell Wilson did. Lots of other guys didn’t.

Weird flex but okay. It doesn’t change the fact that he has a winning record as a starter with 2.5 years of starts. 

[Locomark]

17 hours ago, buffalobillswin said:

Lamar Jackson is everything I wish Josh Allen was.

until he gets broken in half running those options......his throwing stats mimic Josh's and he really doesnt have the passing skills of Josh. But his mobility is next level. The question is does he become Russell Wilson or Mike Vick?

[BuffaloHokie13]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Tyrod is 23-21 as a starter. Efficiency wins, he just needed to make more plays.

Quite the mentor too. Look at what's happening to Baker without him!

 

Lamar is far improved from last year, the staff is building around his skillset, and they seem to have some complimentary pieces in place for him. I still don't understand why more coaches don't do this. O'Brien did it with Watson, clearly kliff is doing it with Kyler. Ravens are doing it with Lamar. Seattle did it early on with Russ. Etc.

[BringBackOrton]

26 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Weird flex but okay. It doesn’t change the fact that he has a winning record as a starter with 2.5 years of starts. 

Let’s hope Lamar doesn’t stop at such lofty heights that Tyrod set.